WordsOfWisdom

1 hour ago, lynxrattle said:

I was just thinking about that today. After a year of Covid isolation we finally see people in the parks enjoying a warm day, and we'll have a spring celebration of playoffs hockey, as it should be. The miserable year only exacerbates the greatness of hockey at its best.

How are things in Finland?

Here in Canada we are still in covid lockdown.  People aren't allowed to gather in parks or anywhere else. The government still has a "stay at home" order in place.   

On 5/7/2021 at 10:10 PM, J0e Th0rnton said:

Someone needs to do something with the ref's flying knee on Duncan keith the other night

 

I know I've harped on this before, but there's no reason why linesmen need to be on the ice to do their job. They should be standing behind the boards at the line watching for offsides. 

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I don't know anyone who's done either. I know Leach and Hextall both won it even though they were on losing teams. As did Giguerre and Glen Hall. 

Isn't it ironic that the trophy given to the best player in the playoffs is a trophy that looks like Maple Leaf Gardens?  #GoLeafsGo!  

"The Conn Smythe Trophy was introduced in 1964 by Maple Leaf Gardens Limited to honor Conn Smythe, the former owner, general manager and coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs and a member of the Hockey Hall of Fame as a builder.^[1] The centerpiece of the trophy is a stylized silver replica of Maple Leaf Gardens, the arena built under Smythe's ownership of the Maple Leafs, and their home from 1931 to 1999. Backing the arena replica is a large silver botanically-accurate maple leaf. The arena replica and leaf are set atop a square wooden foundation, the front of which bears a dedication plaque. Additional tiers below the foundation, sloping outward, contain maple leaf-shaped plates bearing the inscriptions of the winners' names."

" Dave Keon's eight playoff points in 1967 is the fewest ever by a non-goalie Conn Smythe winner, as he was a defensive forward and is the only Maple Leafs player to win the trophy donated by his club's parent company."

- Wikipedia

But back to the original question. According to Wikipedia:

"Though the trophy rewards a player who performed particularly well over the entirety of the playoffs, it has never been given to a player whose team did not at least reach the Stanley Cup Finals. "

9 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

If the Leafs go out in the first round...please promise you're not going to pro-rate Matthews the Conn Smythe trophy. 

lol.

As an interesting tidbit of trivia..... can you name the last player to win the Conn Smythe trophy who didn't appear in the Stanley Cup final?

Bonus: Can you name the last player to win the Conn Smythe trophy who didn't reach the conference finals?

10 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

@WordsOfWisdom If the Leafs don't play those final two games, Matthews won't have played 54 games, let alone 56.

 

You are correct, but his stats will be prorated based on the fact that the Leafs lost 2 games (if that happens).  It'll still pump up Matthews' stats.  

14 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

True. It's also the 4th time in the last 5 years he's hit 100 (he had 97 in 64 games last year) tying him with ALL the Toronto Maple Leaf players combined in their entire history.

 

 So ya, meh.

So anyway, back to Matthews:

If as I suspect, the Leafs gets cheated out of 2 games in their schedule, that means I'll have to recalculate those formulas in the other thread and see if Matthews has passed Charlie Conacher, since the Leafs won't have played a "full" 56-game season.  Unbelievable.  

On 5/9/2021 at 4:42 PM, J0e Th0rnton said:

His accomplishments still pale in comparison to McDavid. If we are playing the pro rating game, McDavid is heating up end of season and on pace for 154 points, leaving Matthews well behind eating the air his dust was floating in.

As long as Kerry Fraser (or his offspring) aren't the referee for the second round of the playoffs when Toronto faces Edmonton, I'm cool with that. 

McDavid is an awesome player. It's a shame that his career is being sabotaged by covid-19 just like Auston Matthews' career has been.

Also a shame that Edmonton has the best player in the game that they can't even watch, and Toronto has the best goal scorer in the game that we can't watch.  I'm sure the league will get back to playing 82-game seasons again once the current core group in Toronto and Edmonton have either retired or been traded away. That's usually how it goes.

8 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 They could always...you know...pro-rate it.

 

(ps...did you see McDavid actually hit 100 points?)

Meh, it's only 100 points.    

With the playoffs right around the corner, the Canucks are miles behind every other team in games played:

Something tells me those games won't get played and the North division will be the only division that doesn't have a full 56 games for every team, leaving the standings up for dispute.

Even in a shortened season we still manage to get cheated by covid.  Unbelievable.  

10 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

The ticket prices are unfair, for sure, but what can you do, if the task is to get people who have never had skates on to watch a hockey game.

 

I'm exaggerating a bit with the fans vs the team thing for the sake if an argument. However, players play without the fans. There's beer leagues and pond hockey everywhere. What the fans enable is that we can see the best players from all around the world leave their home countries, cities, families and friends and take huge risks of ending their career badly injured. The money makes it possible. It still is the team that plays and deals with the pressure and risks. We only pay some of the bills.

A luxury tax system. That's the solution. Let rich teams spend more.   

Example: Imagine if you trained hard, went to medical school, became a doctor, and were then prohibited from spending money on expensive things. No Ferrari for you, you drive a Corolla like everyone else does. No big mansion for you, you live in a small apartment like everyone else.  There would be no payoff to being a doctor other than just accumulating money in a bank. That's exactly what happens in the NHL. There's no payoff for the fans who pay more to watch games. Their money isn't going back into the on-ice product like it should be. It's just money accumulating in the bank for the corporations that own the team, but that does nothing for the fans who are funding it. 

If the fans are like shareholders.... the dividends should be championship calibre teams. 

9 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

Lol. Dear players who are in a union so you have some semblance of control over your life. Someone on a forum suggested to remove your right to seek employment in a living area or even country of your choice and seeks to post you like a its a military assignment.

 

 

Whoa whoa whoa!  The players are employed by the NHL. If I'm employed by Microsoft and their office is located in Seattle, that's where I have to work. Even if Microsoft had an office in Miami, I can't demand to work out of the Miami office. I have to work where they tell me to work.

The NHL is like a company with 31 office locations and lots of travel required between those locations. It's not at all unreasonable to say that players must go to the highest bidder (which in this case means working out of the office location where the company tells you to work). The other option is to quit. Nobody is forced to play in the NHL. Players can always find another job. 

7 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

I find that fact of Toronto (and other Canadian teams as well) paying for the expansion of hockey pretty amusing. I never thought of that, and it is of course true. Nice point! But that is how it should be.

To me, the way it should be is a luxury tax system. That's the happy medium that allows rich teams to spend more, but still imposes limits. It isn't fair to teams like Toronto, Montreal, Philadelphia, New York, etc.... to not be able to reward their high paying fans with a better on-ice product. When you can go watch Carolina play for $10 and see the same or better product that I'm seeing in Toronto for $350, that's most definitely not fair.

As a customer, would you be okay with paying more to get less?  (I'm talking about ALL forms of business.)  Are you willing to pay $350 for a plane ticket to ride in coach while I ride in first class for $10?  Are you willing to pay $350 for a basic oil change while I pay $10 and get a premium oil change with a full inspection?  It would never be acceptable in any other line of business. Why is it considered acceptable in the NHL?

7 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

Canadians gave us hockey, and are still giving it.

Yeah, I guess the question is: Have we given enough yet? When do Canadians get to see a champion? We basically gave 75% of the franchises away, and now we've given 100% of the championships for the past 30 years. Is there a point where Canadians can actually enjoy seeing a Stanley Cup parade here?  Is there a point where we can enjoy the on-ice product as much as our American neighbours are doing?

Perfect example: Canadians had to watch a North division with only 7 teams in it -- the least amount of variety compared to every other division. That made it even more repetitive and even more boring than it was already going to be. Once Vancouver went down with covid, it was the same opponent every other night. 

7 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

The fans are not playing, so we don't deserve anything. The team then decides to celebrate with us, if they so choose to. If the Wild would some day win the Cup, and the players decided that to hell with any partying, our organisation, our owner, our GM, our fan base sucks, and they are going to have a private party with no parades or meaningful contact with the fans, that's their prerogative.

Wait... what?  The fans are paying the player's salaries. There is no league without the fans. There are no players without the fans.

Any team that decided "nah, f those fans... we'll just celebrate privately"  (the full Kessel approach no doubt) wouldn't have a team the following year. All of those players could kiss their careers goodbye. The franchise would fold overnight, and the players would get booed in every arena they set foot in until they retired.

15 minutes ago, Lindbergh31 said:

Losing in the first round isn't a great defeat

The Leafs have also lost in FOUR conference finals prior to that:

• vs Carolina
• vs Buffalo
• vs Vancouver
• vs Los Angeles 

They lost in the second round:

• vs Flyers
• vs Devils

Look, there's no team in the NHL that has struggled more than Toronto to break through an achieve ultimate success. They've lost in every round there is except the Final... and only because they've never been good enough to even get that far.  No team in the NHL is more "due" for a Stanley Cup than Toronto. No team in the NHL has paid more dues, or suffered through more frustration than Toronto fans. IF/WHEN Toronto wins it'll be the most DESERVING Stanley Cup victory in NHL history. It's the longest drought in NHL history. It'll be bigger than Chicago's victory and bigger than the Rangers victory. It'll be analogous to the Chicago Cubs finally winning in baseball.

23 minutes ago, Lindbergh31 said:

Based on your comments as to why arrogant fanbases are rewarded with championship, then the Flyers should have won some because we can be an arrogant fanbase according to lots of opposing fans.

That's exactly my point. None of the Canadian teams ever win. The Flyers never win. The Sabres never win. Pick any hardcore market with die-hard hockey fans and they never win. It's always the Carolina's, the Anaheim's, the Tampa's, the Colorado's, the Pittsburgh's, and now it'll be Vegas (just watch). It's almost NEVER one of the traditional hockey markets that wins. That's why I get frustrated.

26 minutes ago, Lindbergh31 said:

Just because you fill your arena every game, sell lots of merchandise doesn't mean you should be entitled to a championship.

It's not just "fill the arena". It's REVENUE. It's 20,000 people x the most expensive tickets in the NHL = Most revenue per game in NHL.

Toronto fans fund all of the "have-not" teams through revenue sharing. We're paying so these teams can DEFEAT US by signing players with OUR money!  The cap prevents us from spending to acquire what would be an all-star team like baseball's richest teams. Instead, we pay to support other teams. We prop them up and we lose to them.

When you spend the greatest amount of money on the NHL product.... you deserve to be rewarded with a great team to watch. Absolutely.

(I'm not saying the players deserve a championship... because they have to EARN it... but the FANS deserve a championship because the FANS have earned it.)

2 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

Since I live four hours north of Toronto in Leafs/Habs country, I can honestly say I hate both teams equally. I'm looking so forward to a Leafs/Habs first round series for no other reason then after the series is done then there will be only one arrogant fanbase left going into round two.

The NHL is the only major pro North American team sport where the arrogant fanbases aren't getting any payoff for their support.  In the NHL, the team with the smallest fanbase almost always wins. The Cup gets paraded around an empty parking lot. Nobody knows what the fuss is about when they roll into the parking lot to go shopping and see people waving the Cup around. That's the honest to goodness truth. In every other big team sport, the arrogant fanbases are rewarded with champions. Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Lakers, Heat, etc.... go on down the list in the other sports and look who wins all the time. It's always the hardcore markets. The NHL is the only exception. Hockey's greatest fans haven't had squat since 1993.  Three decades!

2 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

But there are too many Leaf fans and not hockey fans that are around and they're the most annoying fans you'd ever want to meet.

If you mean fans who tune out once the Leafs are gone, that's more frustration than anything else. That's also 99.9% of fans. There were more people watching Tampa Bay win the Stanley Cup on CBC (fans in Toronto) than there were people in Tampa Bay watching the Lightning win the Stanley Cup. Also, as I've mentioned previously, by tuning out I am creating incentive for the Leafs to win. If I watch whether they win or lose then there's no incentive for them to win the Stanley Cup. If they suffer financial hardship in the form of reduced viewership then they'll try harder to win next time. 

2 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

The Leafs need to first get past the first round then lose in the second or third round a couple of years before they should have the chance to play in the finals. They need to suffer some defeats first.

Huh?  They've been defeated in the 1st round in the last five or six times they've been in the playoffs. You can't "suffer any more defeat" than that. They haven't been to a Stanley Cup final in my lifetime. Last season they lost BEFORE the 1st round (vs Columbus). 

17 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

But it wasn't a good old fashioned scrap. He had a guy pinned on the ice with his stick around his neck and punched him. Buchnevich wasn't fighting...at all. Then when Panarin jumped in to stop him (never threw a punch, just looked like he was trying to stop him) he gets basically pile-drived to the ice and punched. 

Yeah it was some dirty play. All I'm saying is that kind of stuff used to happen every game in the NHL at some point.  The only difference between now and then is instead of politely trying to move Wilson off your teammate, a 1990's hockey player would have sucker punched (or cross-checked) Wlison in the head from behind and pounded him into oblivion the moment they saw a teammate get punched while on the ground. 

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

Lol...I wasn't fishing for likes. 

Me either. I never think about how many LIKES I have.  

3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

If that was Wilsons 1st offence, maybe I could agree with the 10 minute misconduct. He's been suspended 5 times (once for 20 games) and should have been suspended several times more. He plays over the line...a lot. 

But we're talking about a fight here correct?  He didn't smash anyone in the head with his stick. He didn't hit someone from behind into the boards. It's a good old fashioned scrap. We used to call that a 5-minute major. You could tack on the 2 minutes for instigating. 

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

I don't know how Ghost gets a suspension with zero history (and he deserved it) while Wilson is allowed to continually try and injure players and they basically give what would amount to a $50 fine to us.

I didn't see what Ghost did so I can't comment.   

2 hours ago, fan4ever said:

 

We can agree to disagree on this!  Just wait until he really hurts someone, then we'll chat again.

You mean he didn't hurt anyone?  And he still got 10 minutes???  

2 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

In the 1990's Wilson would have had to face retaliation. He wouldn't be a serial offender with policing on every team.

So then retaliate. Is Wilson the only tough guy in the NHL?  Clearly teams have become too soft in today's NHL. Most NHL teams now would get beat up by a women's soccer team. I think it's time to put the toughness back into hockey again because it's embarrassing to watch players skate around consequence-free. No hitting. No shoving. No physical play at all. It's the equivalent of no-touch football. 

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

And you'd stick by that opinion if it was Mathews he was rag dolling and was out for the season?

Do people just have to quote one of my messages to get 10 LIKES?  lol.   

If someone took a cheap shot at Matthews I would hope a player like Simmonds stepped in and beat their ass.  In fact, if the Leafs had any "testicular fortitude" at all, it would be a bench clearing brawl or I'd burn all the players tuxedos in the locker room and make them wear dresses on the plane ride home. 

On 5/4/2021 at 8:14 AM, fan4ever said:

This man is trash!!!

 

 

A 10-minute misconduct is more than enough.  No fine or suspension needed for this kind of stuff.  This is nothing more than 1990's roughing. Nothing to see here.

56 minutes ago, Jimtown guy said:

Oh and bash away. I have a sense of humor bud. Nothing is going to make me upset. Thick skin and all 

I have a sense of humour too.... but when a thread about general hockey memes morphs into endless Leafs bashing you're definitely going to hear from me.  

2 minutes ago, Jimtown guy said:

I have mentioned I’ve been a North Star and Wild fan with nothing to show for it but hey thanks for your concern 

Great so let's start the Minnesota Wild bashing!   How about that Mike Modano!  He's a fun player to watch isn't he?

12 hours ago, Jimtown guy said:

I don't think you know what a MEME is.  (Or at some point you seem to have lost the concept and turned this into a Leafs bashing thread. I sense tremendous jealousy.)

Compared to the OTHER original six teams, Toronto is 2nd in Stanley Cup victories, behind only Montreal.

The Rocket Richard trophy has existed for 20 years...... and Matthews has won it. Prior to that, there have been other Leafs players to lead the league in goals if you go back in time far enough. 

But let's talk about the MINNESOTA WILD: 

- 0 Stanley Cup wins. 

- 0 players of any significance. 

- 1 relocation to Dallas.

There's the mark of a successful modern franchise!  

On 5/4/2021 at 9:44 AM, Jimtown guy said:

Does this really qualify as a meme, or just a selective negative portrait of the 1972 Summit Series (in which Canada defeated the Soviet Union)?

The Summit Series was probably the most violent, most real, most hard fought hockey series in history.  It was the first time anyone had a best-on-best matchup for world hockey supremacy, and Canada won.