vis

23 hours ago, radoran said:

Would not have surprised me to see him deal a few of the younger pieces for established players (a la "The Trades") either.

One theory, or perhaps more than theory, was that Hextall refused to make a trade for a more established player (Nylander) in exchange for a younger player, which upper management wanted him to do.  That may have been the coup de grâce for Hextall.  Point is, I'm doubtful Hextall would have done a 180 and started shopping young players.  I mean, even the guy who everyone thought would do that (Fletcher) hasn't.  Given where this team ended up this year, what different do you think Hextall would have done if he were still GM this offseason?  Not signed Hayes or any other big UFA?  Probably wouldn't have traded Gudas, I suppose.  Can't imagine he wouldn't have bought out MacDonald.  Do you think Hakstol would still be here?  Weise?

23 hours ago, King Knut said:

As it is, would you rather have Hayes or Anders Lee?  They got the same money only Hayes got an NMC instead of a NTC.  

Hayes.

23 hours ago, King Knut said:

Everything Fletcher did was pretty old school.  There wasn't any creativity or deep analysis or outside the box thinking.

Well, he was smart to trade for Hayes' rights if that's who he wanted.  It put him in the best position to land a player to fill a need via UFA.  Now, the contract he gave him...

Btw, I don't care about creativity or outside the box thinking (how did that work out for Hextall/Hakstol?).  I care about being effective.  Let's see how this season and beyond plays out.

I'd say the Blues went pretty old school last offseason.  Worked out pretty well for them.

23 hours ago, King Knut said:

One of the things I really enjoyed about Hextall was that he was always looking around the league at situations he could exploit and other GMs did the same thing with him. 

How do you know this?  And do you think that Fletcher doesn't?

On 7/31/2019 at 11:32 AM, radoran said:

What is so much better the three years prior to that when they didn't have a lot of cap room? I think this is a silly metric to gauge success.

I don't think spending to the cap is a measure of success, but can be viewed as an indicator of whether assets aren't being left to waste in the pursuit of icing a legitimate contender.  Of course, if you're going to spend it, you better do so wisely.  

On 7/31/2019 at 11:32 AM, radoran said:

I still don't see the signing Hextall "should have made" last offseason. Aside from Tavares, who was the guy they "didn't get"?

 

Here's a list: https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/the-top-30-unrestricted-free-agents-of-2018

I wanted them to target Michael Grabner to help with a woeful PK.  Tyler Bozak would have been a decent addition as a 3C.  Don't love the term Bozak got, though.

19 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I think that irked Scott because he's the one who mentioned spending to the cap in the presser.  Even Homer was likely intelligent enough to know that if you spend that cap room last year, you can't spend it THIS year when the better options are available.  Why spend to the cap on inferior players and not be able to afford the good ones the following season?

Yeah, I definitely think it irked Scott.  I remember thinking there were some signings they could have made (maybe I'm wrong) that wouldn't have jeopardized the re-signing of the RFAs.  And plus, no one likely expected at the time to need to sign a 2C in the future, on the basis that Patrick would ascend to that role.  

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That was more or less known to be the case for a few years now once you understand when contracts were ending.  Hextall did the right thing in not spending it last year.  Spending it on JVR last year was debatable but only in the sense that he might have been able to get more with it this year.  GOing all in for JVR last year was likely his acquiescence to Scott and Homer. 

I don't know if I am fully on-board with the "wait to see who's available next year" approach.  A lot could happen and you may lose out on players you may have had an opportunity to sign (I'm not saying that had been the case; just speaking generally).   It works in some circumstances, like when a team is truly rebuilding and gutting its roster, but not sure about the Flyers'.  

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

Signed a multiple time 30-goal scorer that was widely regarded as the best UFA available after Tavares?

 

What do I win?

Didn't they go into the season with a ton of cap room?  I think that irked the upper management folks.  

19 hours ago, King Knut said:

He's had that chance going into the off season and the millions in cap space that Hextall's plan spent 5 years creating.  We now have Hayes, Niskanen & Braun plus two vital unsigned RFAs to show for it.   This summer WAS THE WHOLE SHEBANG.  We've known since Hextall took over because he told us how long it would take.  It was always this summer.  

What do you think Hextall would have done with that cap space?  What did he do last summer with the cap space he had then?

Niskanen and Braun don't bother me from a hockey perspective.  They needed better veteran leadership than they had with MacDonald and Gudas and I think both bring that.  Do I like the price for them?  Not really.  But I don't see how some folks can make an argument that Fletcher didn't improve the defense for this season.  Yeah, some would argue Gudas is a better player, but Gudas was probably gone after his contract was up after this season any way and I'll take a Niskanen/Braun combo over MacDonal/Gudas.  Flyers would have had to get someone to fill the veteran leadership void anyway.  But in the end, I think the value of Niskanen/Braun will be the influence they have on the younger d-men in terms of mentorship and setting examples.  Unfortunately, there is no metric for that.

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

Who knows what what was Up With Stone.  He’s still the one that stings the most.

Were they really in on Stone?  Again, he went to another place that has a decidedly better "lifestyle" than the Flyers.  And to a team that was one year removed from a Cup final appearance.  Can't blame him really.

1 minute ago, CoachX said:

On Rob Ray, I have a favorite moment.....

 

Brashear started pounding on him to start that epic brawl against Ottawa

Was that him or Chris Neil?  Was at that game.  Tremendous.  

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

You didn't mention me by name, but I defend Hextall sometimes because I actually really respect and appreciate his approach to building a team to be talented and restocked indefinitely.  

And I didn't mean you at all.  I think your criticisms of Fletcher have been fair (and we agree on some) and I don't think come from a place of Hextall fanboi-ism.  

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I also am big on criticizing the whole situation over his firing because I am pretty sure it wasn't about hockey at all, but about Hextall mouthing off to Dave Scott.

I tend to agree.  I think Scott and Hextall didn't have a good relationship and Scott made his move.

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Now I don't know if it's Fletcher or Homer or Scott to blame for this, but I do know that it appears that Neither Trouba, nor Panarin, nor Mark Stone, nor even Hayes (at first) had any interest in signing in Philly.

 

That feels like a problem to me.  Maybe it's because none of them wanted to compete with the existing talent at their positions for ice time, maybe it's because they didn't like how things appeared to be being handled from the outside, and maybe it's because the GM the team fired last fall had a strict nutrition policy and didn't like letting retired vets into the locker room after games.    I don't know... but I'm willing to bet it wasn't the last one.

Yeah, I'm a little bit concerned as well.  But, I think Trouba and Panarin both had every intent in going to the Rangers.  Look, if lifestyle is what is primarily driving decision making, I'm not sure I want that player on my team anyway.

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I'm a big "team of rivals" kind of manager and I think it's generally a bad thing when you do everything exactly the way your superior wants you too.   I really hate when folks working under me do that.  

Yeah, agree there needs to be some critical thinking internally.

3 minutes ago, brelic said:

How Fletch can be judged, let alone this harshly, before any of his moves, signings, and personnel changes have yet to even all be in the same room together is beyond me. 

Same.  I think to the extent he's getting any harsh criticism (and I don't mean "any criticism" - he deserves some), it is coming from Hextall disciples. In that regard, I"m pretty sure Boomer was a big, big Hextall fan and his approach.

I'd pick someone from a time when I wish the Flyers had a legit enforcer.  So while Probert would have been fun to watch as a Flyers, we had Dave Brown (and others) who was a legend in his own right.  So, I'd probably say Brian McGrattan or Derek Boogard.  May also have wanted someone like Stu Grimson and/or Rob Ray when Lindros was here.  I know they had the Dan line at one point, but I would have loved a killer like Grimson.  Always loved Rob Ray as well for a smaller guy.

On 7/28/2019 at 9:07 AM, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 I would have to agree with most of what he said. I have not been a fan of Fletcher or pretty much any of the moves he’s made so far. I stopped short of giving him a whole lot of credit for the draft because that credit falls to the scouting department.  It’s yet to be seen what Vigneult can do with the roster.  

I don't love everything Fletcher has done, but I don't think an "F" is reflective of his efforts.  Frankly, I'm not sure that's even what "Boomer" is saying.  But it seems that OP presented it that way.  I think Boomer's grade is more of an indictment of the organization's handling of Hextall/Hakstol than it is anything that Fletcher has done.

On 7/28/2019 at 9:07 AM, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

I still can’t believe that Fletcher did not even talk to Queniville when he was the best coach available.   He may not have landed Coach Q but the fact that he did not even talk to him is inexcusable In my eyes.

At first, I was bothered by this but understand that Quenneville to Florida was a foregone conclusion.  I also suspect there was some outreach to Q's camp, but the Flyers rebuffed (perhaps during and after the season).  

15 hours ago, intheslot said:

Three teams received a flat out "F" from Boomer, they were the Philadelphia Flyers, the Anaheim Ducks and the Minnesota Wild. One team however received the lowest possible grade of them all, an F-, and that was perhaps unsurprisingly the Edmonton Oilers. That is to say Chuck Fletcher of the Flyers, Bob Murray of the Anaheim Ducks and Paul Fenton of the Wild all received an F, while Ken Holland of the Oilers received an F-. The loudest and most vociferous complaining however has come from the Oilers fan base, and likely for good reason.

The main reason the Flyers got an "F" according to Boomer was because of how they handled Hextall.  Boomer was a Hextall guy.  Loved him.  And he had a major issue with how the Hextall firing went down, citing that it appeared the Flyers had little plan in place for his firing or replacement.  I don't disagree with that at all, but that's not a reflection on the GM, it's a reflection of Comcast.  He also cited the fact that they should have fired Hakstol as well and made it awkward by not doing so.  Again, I agree.  But again, that's a reflection of Comcast.  He says he's not sure what the Flyers are now and frets that Fletcher is going to tear down the prospect pool that Hextall built.  But that hasn't happened yet, despite a lot of hand wringing from some fans.  Yes, he fairly points out that the Hayes contract was an overpayment (that's on Fletcher and Co. for sure).  He questions that Niskanen/Braun deals.  However, if he knew more about the team's situation, he'd know this team was in dire need of leaders/vets on the backend.  He also gave zero credit for hiring Vigneult.  However, I thought his criticisms of the offseason moves were fair.

4 hours ago, radoran said:

 

It also leaves them with Kurtis "Who The Hell Is Kurtis Gabriel?" Gabriel* as a top 12 forward. And only 12 forwards.

 

They will need some wiggle room to work in a Frost or Farabee, for example.

 

Would not at all be surprised if Hagg is moved sometime between now and the trade deadline, but perhaps sooner than later.

 

 

 

* yeah, not what I pictured, either...

Ah, ****.  Didn't realize they only have 12 forwards.  That does kind of screw things up, doesn't it?

If they trade Hagg, I'm still not sure that leaves them enough flexibility, unless Provorov and Konecny sign for a little less than what I was suggesting above.  

18 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

This is a long standoff. Each passing day makes me think we are closer to a trade.  

Nah, there is a bottleneck with at least the Werenski deal, and possibly McAvoy deal, needing to get done first.  Just seems like the Provorov deal is hostage to at least one of those deals needing to get done.  Trouba getting done helps, I think.  Hell, even Marner may be holding things up for the d-men. 

2 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

Yeah, I agree. Honestly that deal for Trouba looks like a nasty overpayment based on just his last year of play. That kind of thing is dangerous.

He's also been a "name" for a while.  I agree that it sounds like an overpayment as well.

2 hours ago, elmatus said:

Provo imo has higher potential than Trouba.

Agree.

2 hours ago, elmatus said:

Fletch needs to lock him down to some solid term. Period. The complicating factor of course is TK also needs a contract and is in line for a nice bump. It's unfortunate timing.

I think they can do both on longer term deals, but they will have to move a least a little bit of money to make TK work and have some flexibility under the cap.  Capfriendly has them with $13.4m in cap space.  Assuming Provorov gets $7.5-$8m max (more money for more term), that leaves $5-$6m for Konecny, which should be enough for a relatively longer team deal (i.e., more than 2 years; not sure if more than 5 years).  But that leaves them with no flexibility this year.  Even trading Hagg would help things.

So are we thinking the Trouba deal is the ceiling for what Provorov would get?  I get that the dynamics are different, e.g., Trouba had leverage in that he was arbitration eligible and one year removed from UFA.  Provorov doesn't have that leverage (and neither do Werenski or McAvoy). 

Honestly, but for last year, I think Provorov has better argument stats-wise than Trouba.  Certainly Werenski has better stats.  In any event, I'm not sure Trouba sets the market, per se, but his deal is a data point.  Still need to see what Werenski and McAvoy do.  I think Werenski and CBJ are probably arguing over term, with CBJ wanting a longer deal and Werenski wanting a shorter deal that brings him to UFA.  McAvoy's deal probably gets a bridge, but the $$$ probably depends on what Werenski gets.  Provorov probably slots somewhere between Werenski and McAvoy.  I really think Provorov's deal is a hostage of the other two deals. 

All that said, I'd be comfortable giving Provorov Trouba's deal.  The only issue is what does that leave for Konency and how much cap space will they have after signing him?  Rather not see him get a bridge.  I still think a d-man gets moved at some point, which could free up some cash, assuming they don't take back salary.

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

Exactly. So, this is the state of affairs in hockey eh? This fat fukcer is the hot European prize this summer! Jesus wept.

I long for the days of Jiri Dopita.

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

And he could be just the next Medvedev and back to Russia after he sucks.

Seems like this is the likely outcome.

13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Would hate to see the Rangers land another good player.

Is he a good player?  He's a 28 yo guy who posted his career best goal total last year.  He was fifth on his team with 31 points (team leader was Linus Omark with 49 points - who couldn't cut it in the NHL).  I'm not worried about missing out on this guy.  The Rangers can have him.  

Btw, anyone look at the Rags roster?  It's not that good.  Their centers are dreadful and they have no depth.  

3 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

I really want Fletch to sign Provo and TK before strapping the team to more signings. Also, if the Rangers are in on him, I imagine it's a done deal already cause Rangers.

Totally with you.  I want him to take care of his own house first.  I'm not interested in a 28 year old Russian guy who reached his highest goal output last year, never crested 20PIMs in a season until last year and was a team-worst -15 last year.  Hope Fletcher is in it solely to drive up the price on the Rangers.  Rather see that 3RW go to a player hungry for it and in the organization.

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

Great. What the hell is a Portnoy?

Dave Portnoy is the douchebag that runs Barstool.

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

LMAO

Stupid websense at work!  Can't even see that OR posted a video.  All I see is a bunch of whitespace in his post.

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah i guess you didn't see my post right above yours i posted the video of it...

Ha!!  Video is blocked at work.  Can't see what you posted...

On 7/11/2019 at 1:13 PM, Podein25 said:

 

Is it too early to ask where Kev is these days and what is training regimen is? 'Cause imma gonna keep asking.

He was rating pizza slices at Tacconelli's with Bryce Harper and the guy from Barstool the other day.  No lie.

At least he was in Philly.