SCFlyguy

The only way you could view the poor state of the Flyers as being primarily on the coaches as opposed to the players and current/former GMs is if you vastly overrated the players we have, especially the younger players.

G and V are good players but in no way capable of carrying a team at this point.  Being angry at them for what they are now is stupid.  The Flyers need 2-3 more players as good as G in his prime for this team to be a contender.

As it is, this team has zero players as good a G in his prime.  Not one guy Hextall drafted and who has played in the NHL to date looks like he is going to be a perennial all-star/borderline HOFer.  Hart theoretically could but he could just as easily be a one year bust at this point.

I think we are seeing the failure of Hextall's build from within vision, due to two indisputable facts:

1.  Hextall never tore the team all the way down and built the assets up by trading Giroux, Voracek, Simmons, etc. when he first arrived.  There was never any chance those players were still going to be good when the young prospects developed.

2.  Hextall failed to draft a single superstar and please don't tell me Hart and Provorov are superstars.

52 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

s it possible that despite all the talent in the world for example, great skating, good passing skills to go with soft hands the one thing these kids/prospects don't have is the hockey IQ to be able to see the play and maybe understand where the puck is going to go and then know where they need to be. Basically just being able to process the information in a quick enough manner to properly execute their job within the system.

The one thing the Flyers have supposedly been drafting for the last five years has been hockey IQ (i.e. players that play a 200ft game, etc.), cause they certainly haven't been drafting for speed, skating, and skill.

The time to strip it down was:

• After the disaster of 06-07: We should have spent several years sucking and stockpiling more young talent, but instead we went for the quick turnaround with big trades and free agent signings.  It actually almost worked, except it didn't.
• After the Carter/Richards trade: the idea that the resources that came back in those trades would be able to step in and compete on the same timeline as Jagr, Timonen, etc. was insane.
• After Hextall came in: the idea that all of Hextall's picks and prospects were going to be ready on the same timeline as Giroux, Voracek, Simmons etc. was insane.

The Flyers are always half-pregnant and haven't stripped it down since 1967.

It might help if a single player they drafted in the last five years was a superstar, but not even Provorov is one. 

8 hours ago, mkscrewy said:

Opponents take fewer liberties when they know the guys on the other side collectively have each other's backs.

 

Citation needed.

I'm tired of hearing excuses for Hart's poor play because of the Flyers' bad D.  Funny, Elliott doesn't seem nearly as affected.

Prosser = AV sending messages to players he thinks can play better, i.e. Hagg and Friedman.  Gustaffson got the message last game.

I've always liked @Podein25.  Great post.

I'm not going to overreact to one game.  It is definitely not AVs fault.  I actually thought Hart played pretty well; he had zero help.

IMO this team should probably be about as good as last year, but has a couple of issues if they want to take the next step:

1.  Niskanen was a solid, if unspectacular, #2 and they have not replaced him.  They can hope Sanheim or Meyers takes that step but I haven't seen anything, especially defensively, to indicate either of those guys are more than high end 3-4 defensemen.  If one of these guys hasn't taken the next step by the deadline at the latest, the Flyers need to make a move for a proven #2.

2. Other than perhaps Hart, they have no elite gamebreakers.  That doesn't mean they can't win a Cup, as they might have excellent overall depth if Patrick, Lindblom, etc. pan out.  LA did this, though Quick > Hart and Doughty > Provorov.

3.  I love what Hextall did, but he made one major miscalculation: he thought he could rebuild without stripping the team down (i.e. trading Simmons, Giroux, and Voracek in their primes).  There was no scenario where those guys were still going to be elite players by the time the young guys (Provorov, Hart, Sanheim, etc.) were ready to contribute.

12 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

He only got 6 mins of ice time so far...

Zero shots on goal the entire game.

Did they scratch Frost at the last minute?  I haven't heard his name all game.

The main value of Zamula/York etc. is that two or three years from now when Sanheim and/or Myers need to be paid $6M per year, you have a younger, cheaper version to replace them.

1 hour ago, Zzeke said:

As a good Flyers fan, and if you were to put on your Flyers GM hat, what would you offer to try to influence Kekalainen to trade with you?

Again, I wouldn't necessarily, because what we would have to give up would hurt.  I already suggested that the minimum CLB would even consider would be Patrick+Ghost+3rd and I don't think that even gets it done.

FYI, Allison is OLDER than PLD.  I'm pretty sure CLB isn't interested.

I am not suggesting we make an offer at all.  I am suggesting the offers of Ghost, Allison, etc. are woefully insufficient.

Let's put it this way: what would you want from CLB for Konecny?

Nobody is giving the Flyers their 22 yo 3rd overall pick 61 pt three-zone center for Ghost/Hagg/Friedman + Voracek+3rd round pick.

Why wouldn't CLB just pay PLD something between $5M and Voracek money instead of giving up assets for Voracek?

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Does my team need a player like Ghost? 

I guess technically ever team needs a 7th defenseman.

A defenseman who plays in only 25 games because he is in and out of the lineup doesn't have much trade value and wouldn't be more than a throw-in for salary in a PLD trade.

I am not advocating for trading for PLD .  I'm just telling you that, sorry, Ghost plus Laughton (or other spare part) isn't going to get it done.

Would you trade Konecny for Ghost plus Laughton?  I hope not.

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Ghost is quality.

No, I don't think so.  And neither does the guy who takes his drink order in the press box.

PLD at age 20 put up more points in a season than Hayes has in any season.

Teams are going to be so scared of Morin on the wing, they'll just trade us their best players.

53 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I don't think so, the market for players is depressed. I would think a pick (mid round) and an okay prospect with ghost gets it done. I don't think a crown jewel prospect and Ghost would be necessary.

 

This is a deal where I'd consider parting with a quality player though.

I like PLD's game. Imagine going Couturier, Hayes, PLD, Frost or Patrick down the middle...

 

 

Please. Would you trade a 22 yo Couturier for Ghost?

Before everyone starts pointing this out, yes, PLD and Couturier are different players, but PLD is much more accomplished player than Couts at his age.

If Ghost doesn't bounce back this year, you're going to need to package a pick with Ghost just to move him.

It's going to take much, much more than Ghost to get Dubois.  Much more.

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

We know he's a good skater, we know he's good defensively, we know he can lower the boom and he's got a hell of a shot.

We do?  Is this a scouting report from Juniors from 7 years ago?  He's 25 and outside of a half-season in the AHL (3+ years ago and two surgeries ago) he's been terrible.

I hate to rag on the guy but I do not get the fascination.  He likely won't be on the team this time next year.

Lol at Morin at LW.  This is the Flyers giving him one more shot before they cut him.

Morin is never going to play significant meaningful minutes for the Flyers, which is probably a good thing.  He was a reach when they drafted him in the 1st, he has had injury setback after setback, he hasn't dominated at the AHL level, and when I saw him in person at the NHL level he looked like a newborn baby giraffe took an epidural and couldn't communicate with his legs.

I feel bad for the guy, but Flyers fans are dreaming at this point.