GratefulFlyers

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Next season is when they should make a big jump.

You mean as far W/L, POs etc.? Like actually being a good team instead of overachieving or whatever they did this year? I know you follow the game closely...so I'm a little surprised you're this optimistic....if I understood you correctly that is.

37 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

As for The Dude, the smaller rink and faster pace may take some adjustment. 

Indeed. Also shooters as big and heavy as Tage Thompson bearing down on him. It was great he made that first save the other night on Barzal’s breakaway but Barzal is 6’0” 190. TT is like 6’7” 220 I think. I don’t know much about KHL players but I doubt The Fed faced many 6’7” guys. 

18 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Will Ersson hold down the fort?  

something tells me he's going to be real good tomorrow night. Seeing Fedotov struggle a bit...in a weird way may have helped Ersson. Or else I'm crazy. Or both!

3 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Perhaps Torts should hold himself accountable on that too.  

not sure what a HC can do to make a guy shoot straight... care to elaborate...inquiring minds want to know!

11 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

We can't beat a hot goalie with shots from 30 feet out. The Tippett score is an outlier.

I think the bigger problem tonight was when they did get in close they still missed the damn net.

2 minutes ago, Samifan said:

at least a dozen failed cross ice passes in the offensive zone. 

I only wish you were exaggerating  - boneheaded puck-handling.

Backbreaker 2.0. that one Fedotov has to have.

fkn ridiculous the Sabres haven't scored 4 goals in one game all year ... (slight exaggeration).

Jeezuschrist Konecny WTF how many turnovers can you make in one shift? I counted 3 on that last one...and the Sabres still couldn't ice the game.

Konecny is really fighting it or something...he hasn't connected with a pass all game - or hit the net. Farabee is invisible again Atkinson the same... maybe Farabee is playing thru some health issue...an injury or something. I hope so (in a way).

edit: Tippett from the blue line holycow...that was a ripper ...

yep high blocker twice...good hard shots from btw the dots but both definitely stoppable I think.

Aye Ivan we hardly knew ye...

ugh the Flyers were already hanging their heads after Dahlin's goal that 3rd one was a real backbreaker...

Flyers..wow all the missed shots. Grade A chances all for nothing - missed shots instead of goalie saves. But Luukonen has been good when he needed to be.

Frost watches Thompson skate right by him, nice clear lane for TT and he makes Fedotov look silly. If the Flyers keep playing like that they don't deserve a PO spot.

edit: another dud PP what else is new...

edit2: wow Luukkonen was killing it! Somehow Cates blows it right thru him... unreal.

2 hours ago, ctid said:

Frost, for me, has proven he has what it takes to be a true 2C in the NHL

2 hours ago, ctid said:

right on the cusp of breaking through.

He's a proven 2C and he's on the cusp of breaking through? Interesting. I tend to think it's one or the other but whatever.

Frost turns 25 next month, played 223 NHL games and averages .49p/g. What would a breakout season for him look like?

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Good to see Ersson get some rest tonight.

definitely. so I guess he goes tomorrow night - hopefully he recharged his battery in the meantime.

25 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Meanwhile, is there a true number 1 or number 2 center on this squad? 

No #1 and a maybe #2 - Frost but I dunno. Barely 50 points again this year (tho he was scratched 6 or 7 games). Since Jan 1 besides TK he's racked up the most points (30pts, 39 games) and he's playing well w/out the puck. But the top 6 has to carry the offense and a 50pt center...I dunno.

Maybe he cracks it open next year...I hope so because there's a lot to like about his game.

The Flyers need points tonight - both of them. I hope Tortorella goes with Fedotov but maybe 3+ days of rest helped Ersson enough...I sort of doubt it though. Anyway should be an intense game IF the Flyers play with intensity...that's what I'm looking for most, win lose or gimmicky OT...

4 hours ago, Howie58 said:

After awhile, narcissism and anger grate on the nerves. 

For sure, and that's what's changed for the better since his Rangers' days. With few exceptions he controls his anger now before the story becomes all about him, before the narcissism takes over. I believe he enjoyed the drama back then. These days, watching his pressers I'm convinced that Tortorella is gone for good, notwithstanding some "collateral damage along the way" as you put it.

4 hours ago, Howie58 said:

I suspect we will eventually conclude that the benefits of his tenure (competitive culture) will outweigh the costs (press alienation, some hateful players). 

Nicely done --- right to the heart of the matter --- is Tortorella worth it? I see enough evidence to support your conclusion but I appreciate the way you phrased it because I agree: "I suspect..." is the best we've got for now.

56 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

McDavid has been stuck on a team with terrible management. See Eichel after he left Buffalo and won a cup...McDavid is twice the player Eichel is. 

 

And I'd bet the farm McDavid on the Flyers would have them further up the standings than Tortorella does. 

 

Tortorella hasn't led the Flyers to a cup. Or Columbus. Or Vancouver. Or the Rangers. McDavid doesn't get to pick which teams he wants to play for.

 

PS...just checked, McDavid is 12th in the entire league in takeaways. That doesn't scream one way player.

I mean this sincerely...if I could argue with any of that I would...

All I'm saying is you don't like Tortorella, you never have and I think I can safely assume you never will. Therefore I suggest your take on his effectiveness is biased toward rejecting everything he says and does, which is certainly the way your posts about him on this board read. I'm not saying that automatically makes you wrong. You know I've said more than once you may be right about him being the wrong choice for the Flyers. I think he's changed for the better over the years but whether that's true and whether he's changed enough...we'll see.

edit: when Crosby first joined the NHL I used to say I'd rather lose in the Final with Mike Richards than win with Sidney Crosby and I meant it sincerely. You know where I'm going... if the Flyers win the Cup with Tortorella ... just a little food for thought.

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

There's a reason a lot of players hate his guts. 

Sure just as there's "a lot" of players who sing his praises. It depends who you ask. And sometimes a reputation is purposely distorted by someone who doesn't like him - like you did with the McDavid allusion. You left out quite a bit, no?

Tortorella on McDavid: I do think he has to change his game a bit. He's talked about culture, he's talked about standards, he's talked about winning. You're not just going to fill the net during the playoffs and outscore teams. You have to play on the other side of the puck," Tortorella continued.

I understand even mild criticism of Jesus never goes over well with the faithful. So far McDavid hasn't been able to lead the Oilers to a Cup...is it just possible Tortorella has a point?

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Getting every last ounce out of a team that should be rebuilt is just prolonging the process.

I hope not but I know you could be right. He does wring every ounce of commitment from his players. Only time will tell if that's a bad thing or an unnecessary thing. I believe 100% that he's changed quite a bit since his NY days...what happened there, when Dubi and a few others soured on Tortorella, the same may be happening now in Philly but I don't think so. It doesn't look or sound anything like the Rangers back then. And you will say..."Just wait." You may be right.

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

There's a history with the franchise of putting "maybe making the playoffs" ahead of a players long term health by rushing them back. 

 

I don't know if that's the case here, time will tell. It certainly wouldn't shock me if they did, because they do. Hopefully he's 100% healthy. Me personally, I would have sat him til next season. He's too valuable if this team is ever going to be a contender. As you well know, I could care less if they "barely make the playoffs" this season.

Well anyone who followed the Flyers through the Lindros years has a right to be skeptical and it's not like Lindros is the only one. I get that. So I'm not saying it's out of the question but I really doubt Drysdale was pressured to dress against medical advice just for the PO push.

I'd be willing to bet what fans see as an incompetent medical staff, or when they believe a team "rushed back" a player it's nothing of the kind. It's the result of the gray areas in sports medicine - especially on the rehab side - and that's what's responsible not some conspiracy to "win at all cost." For some injuries there are established protocols but they don't guarantee anything and injured players always want to get back on the ice. But somebody (who exactly?) whispering in Drysdale's ear "we need you back tonight" I don't think so.

3 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

I would respect him if he said something like, "I know our PP has problems and I am calling in Mr. X for a new set of eyes to diagnose and fix it."  But I doubt that will happen.  

Right, and at this point I don’t even care if he tells us or not just bring in somebody who has a plan or at least a clue. We all realize fixing the PP is not the #1 priority but it’s on the list somewhere. They have to get cracking on a solution and the sooner the better.

3 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Here is an interesting take on Torts' characterization of the team as soft:

Bailey: Tortorella's Criticism of Flyers is Unfounded (phillyhockeynow.com)

Thanks for the link! I read a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking but not much else. That’s no crime and I don’t begrudge the guy his opinion but what exactly is his opinion? He writes: 

Quote

Is this young Flyers team really not build for the playoffs, or is the coach exempt from the responsibility of putting them in a position to succeed?

If he’d answered that - assuming (since he doesn’t say) he’s alluding to the perennial GM vs HC debate - now that could’ve been interesting if he had some new, behind-the-scenes insights to share. Instead the piece is basically a laundry list of hindsight complaints and criticisms.

He says the Flyers “threw Ersson to the wolves,” noting the team’s losing record since Hart left, and who can disagree? It’s not even debatable that Ersson’s been overworked. But the author never addresses the alternatives, Petersen and Sandstrom, neither of whom showed much promise as reliable backups.
 

Here was a perfect time to explore the competing interests and pressures on managers, coaches in a pro hockey club. Some insight into the expectations Briere has for Tortorella, whether they’ve evolved as the team struggled since Hart left…etc. Omitting this entire sphere of concern and debate is a fatal flaw in an argument about a HC’s effectiveness. 
 

“Tortorella sucks” might be the start of a considered position but without even acknowledging, let alone factoring in the pressures he’s facing the claim rings pretty hollow imho.

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Yet here he is playing so we can maybe make the playoffs.

 

It's insanity with a player who should be allowed to, as you say, get healthy.

So are you saying we should assume that Drysdale isn’t healthy or “fully” healthy (whatever that means)? Evidently I’m in the minority - your post got a few likes so apparently they all understood what you meant. 
 

He’ll take a few games to get back up to speed as most guys do when they miss 16 games…what am I missing? 

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

I would like to see some data to back up this drivel.

 

Can't you disagree and be polite about it? If you can't reach that high try simple courtesy. This isn't the first time ... here's hoping you make it the last .

1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

That being said, questioning your team's stones in public, might not have been the best way to deal with it. 

I'm turning into a Tortorella apologist..good lord!... hopefully his comments embarrassed them the way they embarrassed themselves in that game. It could backfire but I honestly don't think he was trying to "send a message" or do public therapy: he was just disgusted and didn't hide it.

I've been disappointed in Farabee for months now. "Invisible" is exactly what comes to mind. I suppose he hasn't had a horrible year stat-wise - he'll break 50pts (21G/28A) - but this is what I see too:

17 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

He's not really around the play or almost making something happen-he's been- like 10 minutes of almost treading water a night.

Tortorella had to be thinking of Farabee when he talked about "if you don't have enough balls to play these types of games..." Maybe the neck injury spooked Farabee; he wouldn't be the first to dial it back after a scary injury / rehab.

32 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I wish this implosion would have happened in February instead of April. 

That makes perfect sense but for the rebuild Briere is doing a tight PO race is better than a somewhat higher pick. Meaningful games ultimately serve the rebuild better than picking 8th instead of 12th (or whatever)*. Evaluating the roster is what this year is all about, right? There's no substitute for pressure. The Flyers brought it on themselves and now it's intense. Who can execute and who can't? How much does the mental and physical fatigue factor into the evaluation? etc.

* there was no chance the Flyers would be in the race to pick top 5 this year. Briere can always trade up and where they finish has little bearing on how that plays out.

54 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

The overtime made no sense. Frost's error was only part of it. WTF was the plan? Skate in circles? 

Yes it was obvious they weren't even trying to attack and score. They skated like they didn't even know why they were out there.

"if you don't have enough balls to play in these types of games rest doesn't do us any good..."

Tortorella's comments post-game  - sounds to me like he's right on the money... harsh but the truth hurts...this is what a coach sounds like when his team sleepwalks through an entire period of hockey...then has no intent, no direction or intensity in OT...just fumbling around waiting out the clock...WTF was that? Embarrassing is right...