Mad Dog

@flyercanuck Does this mean that some goals Bryzgalov allows also can be categorized as meaningless? At least some of those?

Of course. And I, much like you, have huge reservations about this guy. But we have seen what he can do. I really think - or hope - that the last year's playoffs was just a small sample of his potential...... a tip of an iceberg. Now, obviously, the "potential" doesn't get you far if you don't fulfill that potential. And that's a big dilemma for the organization - it has to be. Maybe he hasn't been put in a right situation. Who really knows. Maybe Laviolette is just not the right type of coach to get the maximum out of him. Hitch, despite the eternal "Hitch hates youth" was actually much underappreciated in how much he could get out of players (young or old) as long as there is something there to work with in the first place. Remember Joni Pitkanen? Joni clearly had his best 2 years when playing under Hitch. And after that he became just an average player. My point is, I don't know if this is the right coach to develop players. Giroux has developed nicely, but who really knows how much of a credit for that belongs to the coach. I really have a suspicion that they coach JVR in a way that limits him in a gigantic way and prevents him from using his skillset to the fullest. I completely understand the sentiment, believe me. I am frustrated myself. But the Flyers have a track record of giving up on young players. I woudl hate to see him flourish and become a star player racking up goals somewhere in Florida or Chicago. JVR may turn out to be a complete waste and a floater for the remainder of his career. But something tells me - and I can't really back it up with anything substantive - that he's been mismanaged by this coaching staff of this team in the worst possible way. He is certainly no saint himself and has to take a responsibility for his lack of consistent effort, but I see some indications of him just not being used properly. Regardless of what the cause may be, if I am the Flyers, I would still work with him. Giving up on a player and trading him away is the easiest and most conveneint thing one can do. Developing your talent is harder. MUCH harder. That's where I feel they need to channel their energy.

It's a bit premature to forecast what he can/cannot be in this league. He is certainly young enough to turn his career around at no time. I sure hoped he would be a perfect breakout candidate this season..... with an increased role due to Richards' and Carter's departure and everything. But his ability to dominate and fill the stat sheet is unreal, especially with a right set-up centerman.... which is why it would be just such a damn shame to see that much talent completely wasted. The real question - at least to me - is how patient the Flyers are willing to be to work with this guy. We are frustrated, so I am sure the Flyers are frustarted at least as much as we are, if not more. So it's relaly their decision. JVR took a step in teh right direciton last night. Let's see if this is the beginning of good things or a fluke.

Let's put it this way. If he cannot improve his game, we are in a real trouble. I cannot imagine him playing any worse at this point. This is honestly the worst I've seen the Flyers' goaltender play during a regular season since I started watching this team play since mid-80's. And that says a lot because there were some pretty average goalies on this team. But this is by far the worst performance I've ever witnessed.

What would it take for him to walk away NOW? Man, I honestly don't remember the Flyers' goaltending being that bad during regular seasons. They used to get exposed and fall apart in teh playoffs, sure, but they were all (with really no exception) pretty solid during regualr seasons. But this is as bad as I've seen the Flyers goalies play EVER. I think they should just bench him and go with Bob every friggin' game. Why not? Chicago benched Crawford and he came back stronger than ever. Perhaps that's their only recourse at this point.

I think what Quigly is saying is that Bryzgalov is being so dismal that you almost, by default, can't do much worse than bringing a stiff like Leighton. I don't think he is serioulsy suggesting the Flyers should bring Leighton in. As I said in a different thread, I honestly cannot recall a Flyers' goalie being as bad as Bryzgalov has been this year. With all the horrendous goalies this team had in all these years, he's been absolutely the worst. This is surreal.

Yeah, probably wouldn't be too big of a deal. But Bryzgalov has been so atroceous that he is almost not leaving the Flyers any choices. I don't recall the Flyers previous goalies been so utterly bad. Ironically - and sadly - when the Flyers didn't even try to address the goaltending issue their goalies were actually decent at least during the regular season. This year, the Flyers finally admitted they had a problem in net and went out and "addressed" it. And he sucks monkey's balls. Only in Philadelphia.......

There are several problems with that, even though the Flyers, just like most of us, I think realized what a mistake they have made. 1. Propelling Bob into the starting position will basically send a signal to Bryzgalov that he is done here, which is fine, except what if Bob falters too and you have to turn to Bryz in the playoffs? Will he feel interested in playing for the team that basically said, "We don't think much of you afterall"? 2. If the team has even a little hope in trading him - which I think is possible, while difficult - they have to drive his trade value up; not down. By sitting on the bench, his trade value cannot get any lower. 3. I don't mean trivialize this, but it all comes down to his contract. Only 6 months ago they thought of this guy as a Messiah. He was supposed to be the man. But more importantly, it's going to be extremely high to justify sitting this guy given how much of a cap space he eats up on a daily basis. Snider recently commented (rolling my eyes here) that there ar eno goaltending issues with the team. To me, that was his way of saying to the media that Bryzgalov is still looked at as a #1, at least by him. 4. Bob is not better. Not by much anyway...... if better at all. Yes, he gets paid exactly what Bryzgalov should be getting paid, but that's a moot point because I just don't see what can be gained by playing Bob the majority of the games. To me, the two golaies are exactly at the same level, but since you are paying for the services of a Cadillac, you might as well use it, instead of driving Ford Escort. 5. I still have a ray of hope that Bryzgalov will get better. It is not very beleivable at this point, but I think he will get at least a tiny bit better. I don't think he would ever be able to play at a level many people - including the Flyers - thought he can play, but at the very least, I think he will play better than the way he is playing right now..... simply because I think he hit the rock bottom and cannot play any worse. Mayeb it was an acclimation period. Maybe he is still learning this defense and how to communicate with them (both language-wise and game-wise)... But I just have hard time beleiving he is that bad. Right now he is getting outplayed by just about every golaie in this league and their repsective grandmothers. I can't see that lasting forever.

I really think (or actually hope at this point) that JVR is playing seriously injured. But if that's the case, the Flyers should be SHOT for doing this. If, on the other hand, he is 100% healthy, I don't know what is wrong with that guy and what it's going to take to make him wanna play hockey in this league.

I disagree, Vince. Like Rad said, their strategy seemed to target the next best goalie available. They did it almost just to be able to check that box off of their list of things they had to do this summer. I am sure Snider wanted to land a good, high-quality goaltender and address this problem once for all. Unfortunately, there really *wasn’t* that type of a goalie last summer. Bryz proved very little in his career that he is capable of carrying the team far and be the “savior” most perceived/anticipated he would be. Nothing in his play or numbers showed otherwise.

Sadly, that has been the Flyers' signature for more than a decade. And still, till this day, goaltending continues hunting this team like a bad ghost. What's really unfortunate is that this year they finally identified that as being a problem, but as mostly always, went about it the wrong way.

I am sure deep down, the Flyers realized they made a huge mistake. There is no doubt in my mind they did. If they somehow manage to lose Bryzgalov's and Pronger's contracts, they suddenly have a big cap relief for the future. I can't imagine him getting better. It's not like he is a rookie; he's been in the league for way too long to expect him to suddenly change the way he plays. Aziz....... or anyone else........ as the rules stand right now, what *is* the penalty for the buy-out. Give me all the details. And once you buy a player out, does his salary immediately stops counting against the cap or is there some sort of a "left-over"? I say if it's just cash involved, just friggin' do it. It sure makes the Flyers look foolish for giving the guy that kind of a contract to begin with, but hey, everybody makes mistakes. It's better to correct this now rather than continuing him taking up a valuable cap space, thus tying Homer's hands to add players to the roster.

What can I say. Jagr has been everything you want out of your veteran. I think nobody can ask for more. It feels funny to even utter these words, but hard to even imagine this team without him at this point. If he keeps it up - which I think he will - and is interested, I sure would re-sign him for the next year. I don't see why not.

Problem is, I don't know how realistic this divorce is. This inflated, overblown contract makes it virtually impossible to lose this clown. Teams would likely want 1st round picks to even get interested in any talks. Snider screwed this team up pretty bad this time.

And I am sure they tried it and are still working on it. My guess, they are working on it at each practice because after Bryzgalov's pathetic perfoprmance, team's sporadic D is the next glaring issue. Laviolette knows it. But I don't know how much he can improve that, honestly. Without Pronger, this is just not the same group. And the whole team defense has been very inconsistent at best. But this group is what it is. Unless they trade for either Letang or Weber (both of whom actually happen to be out with concussion, by the way) or someone of Dion Phaneuf's caliber, this defense will be pretty much the way we see it today. But they *can* make a change in net. This, to me, is what Holmgren and the coaching staff should be working on as we speak... or this will be another disappointing season before we notice it.

And that's the part that makes me want to beat my head against the wall more than anything. Garon!!!! Fricking, useless Garon!!!! I don't even want to go to salarygeek.com, or wherever else, to check his salary. I know it's probably a third of what Bryz is making. After so many years of the opposite goalie looking like Patrick Roy against us in just about every game, I thought we *finally* ended it with getting a legit #1 goalie. Alas, opposing goalies *still* outplay ours... Will this ever end?

OK. Valid points. But then here is what I am trying to figure out. And I am not asking this question to argue or be cute, but because I honestly can't figure this out. Laviolette knows his team much better than you and I. Why did he go nuts in the playoffs with that 3-goalie embarrassment? Why couldn't he just put his trust in Bob? Anybody with a common sense, let alone a savvy, experienced, intuitive, successful coach like Lavy, could expect Bob to perform at *least* no worse than Leighton, right? Was his confidence in Bob that low that he had to resort to that mortificaiton that we all witnessed.

I was agreeing with your contention until this point. We were *not* close. Not really. Bob was OK - just OK. Mentioning him in the same sentence with Marty is quite silly. Marty took this league by storm. Look. I like Bob. I really do. I did last year. And I want to see him do well in O&B. However, I felt the change/upgrade in net was needed. But I had no idea Bryz is really *that* bad. I erally think he deteriorated since he came to the Flyers. I don't know what it is: the system, bad defense in front of him, or him not wanting to be here, or whatever else. But he's been nothing short of disgraceful. I see him going completely belly up in the playoffs, if the Flyers even make the playoffs. But the truth is, we wouldn't even be in the situaiton we are in if Bob was playing lights out last year and clearly outplayed Bryz thus far. He played well in stratches, but for him to succeed he needed to play at a level where he would basically leave the Flyers no doubt that he is THE MAN. Both goalies are essentially on teh same level. The major difference is one is getting paid like he is the best goalie in the world and the other gets paid exactly teh money he earns.

Rest? Rest from what? He's been resting all year long as far as I am concerned.

@radoran I don't disagree, Rad. Bob hasn't quite put the world on fire, either. The only comment I would have to this is the disparity in salaries. Bob is an average goalie and so is Bryz. But Bryz is getting paid the money of a premier goalie. It really makes very little sense to stick with him moving forward. The Flyers seem to be in a position to stick with him at least through the end of this year. But moving into the next season (unless Bryz suddenly proves us all wrong), I think they have to stop screwing with this. There may be no better options as premier goalies are tough to come by. I think Bob has a decent skill set and can grow into a good, while not spectacular goalie. Bob may not be the answer, but this may just be a situation where the Flyers would be finding a way out of a pile of crap they chose to step into this past summer.

@hf101 To be fair, at the time of the acquisition I liked the fact we were getting (what I thought) a legit #1 goalie. I didn't like the contract, but I figured that was the market for his services. What I didn't anticipate is to see how bad he is. My God....... We really acquired a mediocre goalie and on top of that, had to pay through the nose.

One team that must be laughing their assess off right now is Phoenix. Until his recent injury, Mike Smith has been doing exactly what Bryzgalov was *expected* to do here: win games. And he didn't haver to cost them $6 mil/year for the next 100 years.

It's all nice and good, but the problem is, it's difficult to justify letting your $6+ mil goalie ride a pine. I am sure Comcast Spectator follows the sport since it's their team and will want an explanation why their money is getting washed down the drain. Hell, Snider himslef, I am sure, will want a justification of the investment. If somehow, by miracle, they can find a team who would be willing to take this joke off the Flyers' hands even for offering the Flyers nothing back in return, that would be incredible. Otherwise, they are stuck with him until at least the off-season. But decision-wise, I am 100% with you. Bob has done nothing to lose his job as a #1 goalie. It's a no-brainer.

Logically, you would think they would protect their asset and not risk his long-term health. But honestly, won't surprise me if they do just the opposite. This team displayed their incompetence when it comes to making medical decisions on several occasionas in the past. Why this stiff McCrossin is still employed is beyond me.

Bryz went from mediocre to disgarceful very quickly. They have to make getting rid of this inflated, stupid contract their #1 priority this summer. Can he suddenly recover and start playing better? Sure. But I don't see him pulling a rabbit out of his hat and suddenly transforming into what he is not. He is NOT a great goalie capable of taking this team far into the playoffs. He is essentially at Michael Neuvirth's level. He is capable of playing at an average level. Nothing more, nothing less. Snider F**ked up big time this time.