radoran

44 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Signing Seeler for 4 years and trading for Johnson, those are about as Holmgrenian as you can ask for.

I'm no fan of the Seeler deal, but these are no way Holmgrenian level events here.

He effectively upgraded a 4th rounder to a 1st losing a 5th and taking on short term salary. That's not great but it's not bad either. This isn't 2nd and 3rd for Andy MacDonald territory and $2.7M for 4 is no where close to $5M for 6.

The Johnson deal is throwing a bone to your locker room and while I might not have done it, it's not the end of the world.

Granted there is some PTSD from ol' Fletch blowing Holmgrenian out of the water with two roster players, 1st, 2 2nds, and a 7th for Ristolainen and the subsequent contract.

We've taken several steps back from that ledge.

16 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I got dibs on where my lawn chairs goes on your lawn for the parade!!

Anything can happen, my man. Anything can happen.

I get the reasoning behind the deal of throwing a bone to the locker room after trading Walker.

I'm not worried about Comcast's money and they don't have anything to spend the $2M on next year anyway.

I am worried that they've started the "in a better position than we thought!" process.

Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once they start down the dark path, forever will it dominate their destiny, consume them it will, as it did Bobby Clarke's apprentice.

via GIPHY

17 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

And that if that guy was Dougie Hamilton who has missed time with injuries you're screwed...

Well, and this comes back to when you "have to" sign a guy to $9M for eight years it might not be the best idea when it turns out he's not the right guy for the position.

3 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

please enlighten me... what are the "future considerations" in a deal like that? I hear that phrase often enough but hardly ever know what it means.

generally, they're ephemeral and don't amount to much.

occasionally, there's a bigger deal involved that happens later.

this is more "addition by subtraction"

8 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Aha now I see...so the numbers make sense then...trade away!

 

and a buyout makes zero sense I guess. But what fool GM is going to take him even for $2mil? Clock's running...

 

 

Buyout looks like $2.6M for two years.

Honestly, retaining the $2M for future considerations and a nice skate sharpener isn't a terrible idea.

1 minute ago, GratefulFlyers said:

And so the Flyers could retain some and trade him? Ugh I hope it doesn't come to that

It costs $2M to retain an additional 50%

It costs $2.85M to bury him in the AHL.

Floor's yours.

15 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

something is seriously wrong with the Devils they should've been way better this year.

They had some injury issues, and have some serious questions in the crease, and they fired their coach, but they lack a type of veteran leadership that Toffoli simply isn't going to bring.

I like Palat, but he's not that sort, either.

OJT when it comes to leadership is a tough situation for young players in this league. Hischier is 25. Hughes is 22.

8 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

He made it clear Johnansen wasn't in the future plans and told him to stay put and effectively keep his bags packed

The trajectory of Johansen from $8M max length must have player to "might give you something if he costs $2M" should be instructive to most GMs.

It won't be, but should.

9 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

If you believe "NHL Morning Skate" on SiriusXM, Loughlin says Laughton (say that five times in a row) is in play.  I guess stranger things have happened.   They also said that if we eat an additional 50% (25% of the 8 million), somebody might take Johansen as 3C depth.  Let's see. 

I'm sure he's "in play" but I don't see him going anywhere.

The additional retain concept on Johansen is an interesting idea...

I see a few minor moves today, at best (from the Flyers).

1 hour ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

I read this somewhere today…the return that Briere got for Provorov is two first round picks, two second round picks, and two players (Johansen and Petersen).  That’s a haul!

It's one 2nd and they flipped Walker for an additional 1st.

Johansen may never play for the Flyers and we all kinda wish Petersen hadn't.

I would like to see them flip some picks for a top 10 but it can be harder to do in hockey...

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

But if you can't get up for the playoffs then you ain't getting up long no matter for long no matter how much you want to fake it.

Right, but in an 82 games season to GET to the playoffs you do need guys who are going to make those plays.

Your point about whether the $775K guy trying to make a statement is the same guy with the four year $10M contract is also a good one.

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

more nonsense sports talk that isn't true when they say that crap.

You definitely need guys who will make the playoffs to spark the team.

There are many such plays.

22 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

You need some guys that play with fire and suddenly it rubs off on the softies.

This is the primary argument for Nick Seeler, and it's a good one.

10 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Although I hate basketball ,let’s not forget “Trust The Process “ . The Sixers had countless high first and second round picks and they drafted what they thought was the best player available with those picks. They had no blueprint or plan to fit those new pieces in to complement the nucleus they had, all they did was collect pieces that did not fit the overall puzzle.

Much like in Buffalo hockey, they fired the guy who started "the Process" after letting him start it. The people who then replaced in both situations had no interest in pursuing the plan.

Obviously lots of top picks doesn't guarantee anything - Edmonton says "hello" - but you'll be hard pressed to find a post-lockout Cup winning team this century that doesn't have a top five pick on it...

45 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

he's got 8 picks in the first two rounds the next 2 years. 

He created two of them...

Two are the Flyers' own

Florida's is Fletch's deal

One of the 2nds is a compensation for not signing a 1st

I'm good giving credit where it is due, but to say he got  "eight picks in the next two years" is a little disingenuous.

The real question is what does he DO with them...

28 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Four first round picks in the next two years? For me the argument stops right there. Its the same kind of thing Howie did to rebuild the Eagles.

In one sense, you're not wrong and I'm not totally disagreeing here. Two of them are all but guaranteed to be 25+. And the Flyers' pair are now likely to be in the middle of the round. To @flyercanuck's point, you could get four Scott Laughtons with those picks...

Football isn't the best comparison as the talent doesn't drop off as precipitously as it can in hockey. But Howie did trade up to #2 to get Wentz and traded up into the top 10 to get Carter last year.

In fact, he's traded up in each of the past three drafts. Let's see what happens with the current bounty.

(Oh, and one of the 2nds that they're "getting" is because they didn't manage to sign one of the 1sts. #winning!)

28 minutes ago, CoachX said:

It also says its proof they are still committed to the rebuild

The main question is what does "the rebuild" look like?

Winning a Cup or back to being a consistent lower half playoff team?

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

2 more days but i think he is about done now.

 

But i'm happy to be wrong.

I think you're right, but he's also got to be working.

There's maybe a reason the trade and waive happened when it did.

Johansen clears waivers and Flyers can retain and get something?

JUST a possibility, but something a shrewd GM is factoring in...

22 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Good news Danny still at work...

Is it The Deadline yet?

53 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Frog in the boiling pot, or something,  something. 

An accurate description of the past ten years...

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

@radoran

 

Yeah without the first part, (those guys love him) the second part makes less sense.

NONE of it "makes sense" for the term, the amount, or the situation.

They wanted to do it.

They did it.

It's done.

56 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

He wants to be a Flyer.

And it took a four year deal

Twice as long as any non-entry level deal he ever had

At almost four times what he was making

With a NTC

How much did he WANT to be here?

I mean, make me an offer...

38 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

The turnover from the Giroux group, the Provorov  trade and the ascension of the Travii  has been good IMO. 

It's been great.

Since they excised the cancer that apparently destroyed the entire franchise from within over the course of a decade in which... Checks notes...

No one noticed.

11 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

which one's?

Well there the C, the two As and the guy signed long term on the blue line.

All of them were here when the team found itself completely devoid of any semblance of Flyer hockey.

My quibble is more with the latter line than the former.

13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I think this group of Konecny and younger players is a pretty good base to start building onto. 

Agreed, I just wish they were doing that.

Couturier, Sanheim, Laughton, Ristolainen, and now Seeler are all here for four more years...

15 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

It is an interesting time to be a fan of this team. 

It's been fun seeing everyone's perspectives

We live in Interesting times...

The Seeler move isn't a Fletch level event, it's just a step (or three) in the wrong direction.

An unforced error.

Let's see if the next one moves in a better direction...

23 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

This management group was never going to accept losing for the sake of draft picks. is never going to win a Cup that way

Pretty much the same thing.

Happy to be wrong.

They've got a lot pinned on Michkov coming two years from now and we can just hope that turns out right...

To be clear, I'm not saying strip to the studs. I do get the need to have vets around. I do see the problems in Buffalo and New Jersey.

Then I see a team looking to "build" around three (four) guys who were "big parts" of the group that oversaw the (alleged and apparent) complete and total vivisection of team culture for the past ten years.

It's almost as if they don't really mean that the culture was completely destroyed any more than they mean they are rebuilding "the right way"...

3 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

I guess I need to go back to reading 101 …. Missed that….. not horrible but would rather not have it at all ….

It's like the Tortorella plot armor wasn't enough.

Could be worse, could be "no movement"

Just now, ctid said:

Have a bad feeling that they are going to overpay for Chychrun. 

Yeah, I have a bad feeling that they are playing the "we're closer than we thought!" card.

"Retool" - we're definitely a playoff team!

Excitement. Ticket sales. Playoffs!