Polaris922

Timonen is a very smart player. And I was in no way inferring Lilja to be better, just using him to contrast where Timonen's defensive play has suffered as he's aged. Sorry I didn't clarify that I suppose. As for the Schenn, Coutourier, Voracek comment made awhile ago, it was in deference to proven players vs. developing players. I like how Schenn plays hard, I like Voracek's skill, and I can see promise in Coutourier. I'm not as sold on them as you are as fans, but that may just be because I didn't see much of them. Ten or twelve games doesn't give me enough info to accurately judge them, so I hold off on saying I'd rather have any of them over Dupuis or Kunitz. I know their value to my team I suppose as you know the value of yours.

As I said above, I'm simply trying to share a perspective of your team that I know several friends of mine and I share. These friends follow other teams, but won't come to these forums because of the heavy Flyers following here. I'm trying to change that, but they have the places they already like. As for your comments about what I think, I think Steve Sullivan is past his prime, but is a veteran player who still shows a little sneakiness on the ice. He was 17/31/48 this year, which would make him 7th on your squad, and left him 6th on mine. I like having him on the team, but I never claimed he is an all-star player. I don't like Aaron Asham at all. I just don't think he's a dirty player. Kris Kunitz is a talented player. He would have been 3rd in scoring on your team, and not with a lot of PP time. Only 6 points behind Hartnell, and that was playing on a line without a high quality center most of the year. To say he's not a talented player is foolish. He's a small guy who goes into the slot and takes a beating to earn what points he gets, and is also a capable shooter with good hands. Dupuis is no scorer, but he is very valuable in that he can do everything WELL... not great, but WELL. He scores some (25/34/59 which again would be 3rd on your team) while playing 3rd line minutes a lot, penalty killing, and often times just playing utility man for Bylsma. Is he an all-star? No, but I never claimed he was. I claimed he was valuable. I know you guys like Timmonen and Meszaros, I just have a different opinion of both. Timmonen was a great defenseman at one time in my eyes, again I just think those years are behind him. And I didn't like Meszaros with the LIghtning or Senators either. He had a great plus 30 year for you guys last year, I get it. But he's only had two really good years as a defenseman, and one solid year in orange and black doesn't convince me he's somehow an above average defenseman.

I've actually watched Pronger most of his career and liked the guy when he was younger. I disagree with your assessment that he's why you had a shot at the cup, though I am sure his leadership was valuable, his best playing time was behind him. Timonen I've watched for some time in his games against my boys. I once thought very highly of him, and even had him on my fantasy team, but again he's past his prime by two years in my opinion. His stats reflect more on the offensive capabilities your team now possesses, and less on his individual play. Lilja had a higher plus/minus than Timonen with 8 minutes less ice time per game, and you guys generally RAIL Lilja. Not to mention most of Timonen's points came as assists, and how many of those were primary I wonder? Granted Meszaros was hurt, but I didn't think much of him before he was a Flyer either, so it holds no prejudice that I don't think much of him now. He still got 3 more goals than Timonen in 14 fewer games. Plus 6 in 62 games isn't top notch. I guess part of my point about your defense is ... Timonen's points left him 16th in the league on defense. BUT... if you break it down to defensive play, the highest defenseman you had is Gustaffson at +12... ranking 35th in the league. And Coburn at + 10 ranking 44th. I think Coburn is your best defenseman myself, but I value defense over point production on the blue line. Timonen by comparison was 57th. I know your frustrations with Carle defensively, but he is a creative young player who in the limited capacity I have seen has good movement and as you said can handle the puck. You're right in that I haven't seen a lot of his gaffe's that so many here knock him for, but honestly, when your boys play mine, he is the ONLY defenseman you have that worries me when he's carrying the puck into our end. And I am not alone in that thinking. He's not a slap shot guy, I know, but he's good at getting in close with the puck, and that's where most defensemen become dangerous. Maybe he steps up his play against the Pens, but right now, with your stable, he's the only guy you have that is a scoring threat on your D. He had 132 shots on goal leading all of your defensemen. (Timonen close second at 130). These are my opinions of your players, much as you fellas give me your opinions on ours. if you think it's meant to insult you, then you need to thicken your skin. I'm simply trying to provide you with a perspective that's not wearing orange and black lenses. I've honestly posted about players you have that I like and think a lot of, and players I don't think a lot of. I'm not slamming your organization for it, it's just the facts of every team. Good, bad, & ugly on the roster.

Pronger hasn't been any good in years so you've lost nothing there. Timmonen wasn't anything to be happy with this past year, and honestly was unimpressive the past two or three. Mezaros is overrated. I think Coburn and Grossman are solid d-men and you have Carle for your PP time. I know his defense isn't great but he can shoot. I dunno the two youngers well but I'd say you need at least one solid defenseman signing.

So much for tying the record... On to game 5!

. I don't think anyone thought so much of Hextall as a goalie. He got more attention from outside of Philly for his temper than he ever did for his talent. The man had huge heart, but when I was younger and watching him I actually thought he was someone that held your teams back. I considered him slighy above average at best.

They're set to tie the record for accomplishing the Cup in the least amount if games if they sweep. And will have gone through the numbers 1, 2, and 3 seeds to do it as a number 8! Impressive!

Well I never saw the Pens forums inundated. I've never heard anyone in this city scream for Malkin's head. And those who cry for Fleury's are idiots. He had a horrible playoff yes, but is hardly the only one.

I'm not trying to get a rise out if anybody. I know Carter struggled in the playoffs for you and I'm aware of the questioning of his efforts. I've only recently become aware of the rumors about his off ice activities though. My point is some folks here slam the guy like he stomped his feet and insulted the Flyers organization by demanding a trade or something. I understand being frustrated that he didn't put more into his time with the Flyers but that makes him young and foolish, not a traitor. I agree with what a few have said that the trade seems to have been an eye opener for him and forced him to mature a little. Malkin sucks in the playoffs most years and has streaks of questionable effort, but I don't see anybody thinking he's quit on us. Naslund was a good example of a guy that sucked as a Pen but being traded opened his eyes and he grew into a great hockey player. Some guys need a life lesson is all.

Johnson was a great backup until this past season. He really stunk this year. I kept pulling for him but I'm relieved they addressed it. He really needed to go after his recent performance.

I'd say to just remember your organization gave up on him, not the other way around. Good for him.

What could happen in his private life that requires more than his three months off to fix? Some life changing illness or whatever I could see but otherwise?? He's putting the screws to an entire organization, so it better be awfully troubling news.

A prime example is the dump & chase. For awhile there any attempt by a defenseman to slow the chasing forward after he dumps the puck was deemed interference. Now you'd be hard pressed to find one where there is no impeding by the defenseman.

Yeah Schenn gets high marks, and I've read a lot about Kadr but not really sure what to make of that yet. Clubs are showing interest but Shero has only said he's still hoping to keep Staal alongside Crosby and Malkin.

It's once again dragging a great fast paced game into the sludge. And correct its not just the Devils getting away with it. I do think the officials allow less talented rosters more leeway with it though...

Now THAT looks a lot more promising than Carolina. I'd like them to go after Stafford or Vanek than Roy though. We could really use a winger more than center. Thanks for the update!

I think it was the NHL's way of saying "you're a bad boy! but it's okay..."

I watch time after time as his defensive mistakes lead to opponents' goals. I watch his lazy backchecking to the point of frustration. I watch him miss open net after open net. He is usually lined up with Cooke and Kennedy. Those three had great chemistry together for a couple of years, but this year were mostly split up. His play frustrates me even more than Malkin's can and much more often. I'm not unrealistic either, I know he's not a 40 goal scorer. The stats this past season are pretty clear though... I can only find stats for a partial season regarding this topic.. so I'm going with what I can find. Crosby: The team had a .625 winning percentage in Sid’s eight contests and earned points in 75 percent of the games he played, improvements on the team's .604 winning and 63.5% earned points in the 52 games without him. Malkin: See how useless stats are? The Penguins were 4-2-1 in the seven games Malkin missed last season, giving them better win and points percentages than in the 53 games he’s been in the lineup. Would those numbers hold up over the course of a season? I don't think so. Letang: The Penguins have a .688 winning percentage with Letang in the lineup (23-14-3), a number which dropped much, much lower (11-7-2, .611 win percentage) in the 23 games he missed. Letang was out for each match in the six-game losing streak suffered in late December and early January. Fleury: Fleury was 42-17-4 in his 64 games of record as a starter, a .656 winning percentage and .719 points percentage. Pretty damn good. (full season) Staal: Through 60 games Staal missed 20 games last season. In those 20 games, the Penguins have a .650 points percentage. In the 40 games he’s played, the Penguins have a .650 points percentage. Most of these stats come from an article towards the end of the season by James Conley. Simply put, Staal IS the most expendable of them. If you take away the freak stats or Malkin's that is, and I don't see anybody thinking Staal has a greater impact on the Pens final scores than Malkin overall. Again in the series against your Flyers, Staal had a great games 4 and 5... and even 6. But in games 1-3 I can point out 5 goals against that were blown coverages or mistakes on his part. I just don't see what everyone thinks he does so great. If you watched his play throughout the year, I think you'd see what I'm talking about. Thanks for your opinion though! If you know where to get more specific stats for the entire season please share it. I searched and searched and could only find partials.

Blame that on the NHL for leaving it open like that. It's like grounding your daughter then buying her ice cream.

Guess we'll all be watching...

From that angle of course... it's always been a rival cry against Flyers fans here in the 'Burgh when the taunting and teasing starts. And every time I hear it said I wince knowing the wounds it must cause for true fans.

Sure seemed it Mojo but they gave the Devils the biggest challenge so far. Sad isn't it? I understand your thinking though.

Was no malice in the post my friend. Just frustration in how the season turned out for my Pens that equals or could perhaps be even greater than your own simply because you at least made it to round two! I don't ever accept losing just because the team that beat us went on to win. My point was simply comforting oneself with that thought has holes in its logic, and I look at it from the other end. My Pens were so strong in the regular season and had a great streak just before the playoffs I seriously thought they could go all the way. I never expected a first round exit. I knew your Flyers would be the toughest challenge in the conference, but it was one I expected to overcome. Now for your boys to lose.... Well apparently our teams weren't what they seemed going into it.

Must be a Pennsylvania thing. We do the same here! Lol

I've never been one to say "well at least we lost to the champs" for a simple reason... If you're not the champs, how do you know you were any good? Maybe my Pens should've been 8th, your Flyers 7th...? Neither of us beat anyone else, so maybe we were the worst two teams in? That's not acceptable, and the team that beat us win philosophy is just trying to soften the fact that our teams blew it. The Devils? Really? But now that I think about it.... Piss on everyone else in the East... Go Kings!