Polaris922

@Lindbergh31

@jammer2

The idea that Nashville APPRECIATES this is ridiculous. And it IS an unwritten rule not to offer sheet another twam's star players. There are plenty of write ups on how that IS still the code amongst GM's.

Was it within the rules? Absolutely. Did it still piss off Poile? Absolutely. This wasn't doing the Preds a favor. It was throwing crazy money at someone they may have been able to sign for a decent amount less.

My point was that by signing the Flyers offer sheet, Weber gave up a lot of leverage he would have had if he had waiting to become a free agent. Which Poile could not have stopped him from doing if that's what Weber wanted to do. He could have picked his team (obviously there would have been a lot of interest) and he almost certainly would have gotten a NTC. He lost a lot of leverage in deciding where he would be playing in the future.

I wasn't suggesting that Poile gained any leverage in the negotiations, obviously he didn't. However, while the contract may have seemed crazy at the time it works out very well for Nashville, they've already payed a big chunk of all the money he's owed, and that combined with the lack of a NTC would make it very easy to trade him if for some reason they wanted to.

I guess I see it differently. You're absolutely right about the NTC, but I think he DID have the choice just the same as a free agent. He chose to sign the offer sheet. And with the money offered I don't think he could've done any better. Free agency wouldn't have brought any more than he got. And it left Nashville in a pay or die situation.

Regardless... I think it remains relevant. They won't do Philly any favors. To strike a deal its going to have to favor the Preds.

@murraycraven Even though Recchi had some of his best scoring years early with the Pens, we had him for 10 years to the Pens 7. A lot of his Flyer years were in his prime, with the Pens, they mostly had him early and near the end of his career. So yeah....a Flyer first..lol.

One of our best fourth round draft picks in history!

NO to reviewing the icings.  That just allows the offending team to rest their players while the officials review the play.  And if the officials were correct what is the penalty?  They lose a timeout they didn't have anymore anyway?  If you're going to allow it, there have to be guidelines on how it could be used.  

I would have to disagree. If I remember correctly Weber could have waited one year and then become an unrestricted free agent. At that point he really would have had all the leverage. But when he signed the Flyers offer sheet he basically agreed to play the bulk of his career for one of two teams, the Flyers or Nashville. And he didn't get a NMC/NTC so Nashville can trade him anywhere they want to. From the POV of what was in Weber's best interest, I think he was kind of dumb to sign the offer sheet.

If Weber had waited another season then you would be correct.  At the time though, Nashville was trying to sign him to alleviate that issue, and the club was making offers and receiving counter offers with Weber's agent.  Nashville was also shopping him around to see what could be had for him so they wouldn't lose him in free agency if at all possible.  They were actively seeking a good trade for Weber, and negotiating with him on the side.  

When Holmgren made that offer, it took all of Nashville's leverage away.  Not only could they no longer control what terms a possible extension would be, they could no longer entertain the idea of a big trade with him to strengthen their club.  Their options were completely stripped down to sign him at a crazy contract, or let him walk for four first round picks that would all be low round fodder. Weber couldn't wait a year.  Poile wouldn't allow it.  He'd either sign Weber to an extension or make a big trade with him as the centerpiece.  

I do think it matters. Poile wasn't playing hardball with Weber, they were in negotiations when Holmgren through a crazy contract offer in. That blew up Poile's negotiating power and gave Weber ALL of the leverage. To Nashville's credit, they matched it.

As for hurting his team, Poile would make a move that benefits the Preds if the Flyers offered one, but I don't see one to be had here. Lecavalier didn't have a top six year last year, and that's what the Preds need. Not a bottom six guy getting top six money. Where does that help the Preds? And I think the Weber offer sheet DOES taint Poile's willingness to roll the dice on something just to help the Flyers out. Without that history, MAYBE Poile is more inclined to say "well lets see what he can do here. Remember you owe us one though" for future dealings. You're not gonna see that now. And yes it gets done that way. Right here though it won't be.

true

Pens -> Flyers -> Habs -> Flyers -> Canes -> Pens -> Atlanta -> Tampa -> Broons

Considering he played 602 regular season games w/ the Flyers and 389 w/ the Pens I am calling him a Flyer.

Honestly as much as I like Tocchet I hated that trade. I'm glad both live here and see them both regularly, but Recchi won a Cup here leading the team in scoring on the way. I'm glad the organization found a place for him. He's a great example for the young players.

By Michelle Crechiollo

Development camp marked the first time the entire Penguins staff got to watch and spend time with 2014 first-round draft pick Kasperi Kapanen - and he didn't disappoint.

"He's even better than I thought he would be," Penguins assistant general manager Bill Guerin said. "I was very happy with him."

Kapanen, however, wasn't totally thrilled with his play these past few days, as this past week marked his first time on the ice this summer. But he feels like he ended the week on a positive note following Saturday's camp-ending scrimmage.

"It was good we had the game at the end," Kapanen said. "I felt good, I felt good with the puck. I think I made some good plays and I think I played a good game. So that's just building some confidence for me and hopefully rookie camp will go better."

Kapanen was one of the players who stood out the most to Guerin on Saturday during the scrimmage.

"He's this high-end talent, high-end speed," Guerins aid. "He's a very, very mature kid for his age. Obviously having his father (Sami) playing so many years in the NHL and playing with him and bringing him up that way, he's already a pro, so he's ahead of the game in that department. You got a little screenshot of what's to come and he's not even 18 yet, which is kind of cool."

In addition to his strengths as a player, one of the things Guerin likes the most about Kapanen is how hungry the 17-year-old to make the NHL roster this September.

"He definitely (has a chance to compete for a spot this year)," Guerin said. "And he made it clear that's what he wants to do. Those were some of his comments in the paper after the draft, that he was going to try to come in and compete for a spot. That's the business that we're in, you come in and you try to take people's jobs. That's what pro sports is all about. And if he's already thinking like that, I love it."

Kapanen is certainly thinking that way. He knows it won't be easy to secure a spot with Pittsburgh, and that training camp is going to be tough. But Kapanen said he's ready for the challenge.

"These camps, I try to take everything out of it," he said. "I try to have fun, because hopefully I wont come back to this camp again. But if I do, that's not a problem. (Training camp) is going to be tough. But I'm ready. I think I'm up for the challenge. I know that some people might doubt me, but I'm just going to bring everything to the table and hopefully make the team."

Penguins Name Jacques Martin Senior Advisor of Hockey Operations

The Pittsburgh Penguins have named Jacques Martin senior advisor of hockey operations, it was announced today by executive vice president and general manager Jim Rutherford.

Martin, 61, has over 25 years of NHL experience as a general manager, head coach and assistant coach with Pittsburgh, Montreal, Florida, Ottawa, Colorado/Quebec, Chicago and St. Louis.

His duties will include monitoring NHL games, with an emphasis on Eastern Conference teams, assessing how the Penguins compare to the competition. He will report his information to general manager Jim Rutherford.

Martin, who spent last season as an assistant coach on the Penguins' staff, has won 613 games and made 12 playoff appearances in 17 seasons as a NHL head coach. He won the Jack Adams Award as the NHL's 'most outstanding coach' with Ottawa in 1999 and was a finalist for the award on three other occasions.

Martin won gold medals as an assistant coach for Team Canada at the 2002 Olympics and the 2004 World Cup of Hockey. He was also an assistant coach on the 2006 Canadian Olympic Team.

The Senators are $16 million under the salary cap and are rumored to be looking for an upgrade at the forward position. Apparently several teams have told the Ottawa Sun that wingers Colin Greening and Eric Condra are both being made available.

Vinny for Greening or Condra? I don't think that is enough, Ottawa would need to give up a pick also.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/542186

I think Vinny's contract is too handicapping. Salary cap or no there's a term to consider and to give up a pick would have to be a 3rd or 4th rounder... At best. He's just too overpaid.

Stagnation or Wear and Tear?

crosby still seems to be scoring (playoff wrist issues aside) but your guys have had some heavyset games lost to injury in the years between now and their cup year.

No doubt about it injuries have taken a serious toll on this squad. But aside from numerous issues adding up to failure, I have to give the Rangers a little credit for grabbing St.Louis' loss and using it to turn their series around. The Pens let one go no doubt. But the positives are Fleury played real well, our youth got experience, Bylsma is gone, and they've toughened up. Getting rid of Neal is debatable, but Glass and Pyatt are gone. I'm ok with all that.

Great great pickup by the Pens... my favorite Flyer and should be in the HOF!

You

Mean your favorite Penguin turned Flyer turned Penguin again. . Lol

The Pens are no more guilty of embellishment than your Flyers are. Despite James Neal's recently departed theatrics. Skilled players thrive where obstruction is called. We've ALL noticed the league's letting obstruction back into the game, and its impact. For years your Flyers have had more power play chances than my Pens, so does that mean they were diving more?? Or just started seeing some skilled players step up instead of the goons of yesteryear?

The Pens failures with Bylsma were in line combinations and changes, his reigning in the offense for worrying about defense, and his refusal to adjust to the game plans of their opponents. Those were the biggest issues I saw.

That's what we're excited to get away from. The stagnation of our skilled players.

I'm curious about the new coach and what effect that'll have.

Is this team capable of playing a different system?

Honestly, these penguins started to shine less as soon as their third period goadings started working less. When they stopped getting the friendly calls on the dives and the holding of sticks stopped turning into hooking penalties, the penguins luck in the playoffs and in bigger games started to fall apart.

It was part of their coaching to get them power plays in games they weren't winning on their own merits.

Honestly, I don't think we have any clue if thAt team can play a system.

By these last two posts I can tell you don't watch them much at all, and you've chosen to ignore the points made that show the pros and cons I argue make them equal in value.

As for the reason the Pens have had playoff struggles, you clearly haven't watched them there either. I think your bias against them clouds your lenses quite heavily. You should set aside the routine Flyers fan mentality (the Pens dive, the Pens whine, the Pens cheat, the Pens are favorites, the Pens sacrifice first born children) and just watch the hockey they play. Their failure had nothing to do with not getting calls or similar melon head thinking.

It will be interesting what a very offensive minded coach brings back to the team. Bylsma started that way and they were a dominant offensive juggernaut. His philosophy shifted and the success went with it. So now that he's gone this could create some very fast paced wide open hockey.

I'm with you on the Bylsma thing. Then again, I'm a Philly fan so if it's not the goalie, it HAS to be the coach.

I do think there's something to it in this case, though.

Did Pitt clean out the entire coaching staff? New goaltending coach?

I just wouldn't be surprised to find out their playoffs were something Bylsma was doing. Fleury included.

They kept Jacques Martin and the goaltending coach they just started last season Mike Bales.  Bales I think was being rewarded for helping Fleury get past his playoff disaster stage.  Fleury had a 2.4 GAA and his best save % (.915) in a few seasons.  So I think they figured Bales had been helpful.  

@ruxpin Agreed, both Malkin and Sid have been less than stellar themselves. Momentum is a funny thing in hockey, a few key saves here and there and players respond, feeding off the positive nature of a guy standing on his head in the nets. Of course, if a goalie is letting in back breaking momentum killers, the offense is more often than not sub par. Not laying all the blame at Fleury's feet, just pointing out he has been a momentum killer for many series these past few years. The two factors (goalies and forwards scoring points) should not be interlaced, but the fact of the matter is they are....I'm sure there is a statistical co-relation between the two.

I put a lot of the team's struggles on Bylsma to be honest. We've talked ad nauseam about Bylsma's failings in the playoffs. I'm excited to see what a new mentality does for the talent on this team.

@jammer2

Until Mason proves he can win a playoff series I don't see him as an upgrade at all. Fleury has outperformed him in the regular season and you still need a ticket to get to the dance. I agree Mason is young and if he continues to improve I'll change my opinion, but until then, this is all ridiculous home team favor.

I understand the $1.5 mill cap difference but that's the difference between a fourth and third liner these days. And I like the idea that if Fleury stinks this coming season his contract is done. Free market.

My point remains they're two mediocre goalies very much on par with one another till you add all the pros and cons. I wouldn't trade one for the other. The difference really isn't worth the paperwork.

Fleury better in regular season.

Mason unknown quantity in postseason (but I'd take that over Fleury's recent history.)

Mason saves $1.6 million (but signed three years so he needs to prove himself.)

Fleury is more expensive (but for one season then you can be done if he fails.)

Score tied at 2... Equal. *shrugs* believe in your goalie with high hopes for the future, that's great. But if I'm a GM I'm basing a trade on what I know, not what "might" be.

I hear Crosby likes man-pie Polaris... That is man-desert

Heh heh... Man-desert? Tough sand?

He's going to be made into a pie?

I'm not. But don't mistake 5 sub-.900 save percentage playoff performances as 2 poor ones. The first one the Pens may not have been a contender. But the 4 following the cup win (which was the .905 year and hardly good numbers either) when they were one of the favorites are really when Fleury solidified his status in the Dept. of Goats.

I think the difference for me is having watched all of those seasons games and knowing how badly the team played in front of him. Average GAA all but those two seasons with a team that's more than struggled in front of him. The number of odd man breaks and power plays the team has surrendered has greatly damaged the statistics for Fleury. And the injury list during at least two of those four tears was extensive. this past season was a better reflection of standard Fleury. Again I'm not a supporter of his, but to say Mason is a better goaltender is a stretch to me. He may yet be, but the regular season stats he's actually a little behind. And I'd like more than one well rested playoff series to judge his postseason success by.

The only argument anyone can reasonably have in my eyes is he costs less per season, but to me that's offset by Fleury's contract being up after this season.

I will wiss Engelland a lot. My favorite enforcer right now. At least he will make good money in Calgary. Godspeed!

Welcome Yorick! I liked Engelland too, but he's WAY overpaid by Calgrlary and in all honesty, he didnt step into his role of protecting Sid & Gino all too often. That frustrated me.

Is your last name Shero? How can you say I'm incorrect? It's time for you to stop seeing the world through home town tinted glasses .

The point was I never said Mason was a top echelon goalie. I just said he played better than Fleury did because he did. Stats are only a vague representation of what goes on and I guarantee you most teams in this league would want Mason over Fleury.

Are there more than 5 goalies most teams would want before Mason? Sure there are! But Fleury ain't one of them.

I'm basing this purely on watching them both. Believe me, I will not hesitate to trash a Flyer player and goalie in particular when it's justified. I'm not overvaluing Mason. I have a fairly clear perspective on where he is. I think your view of Fleury might be overinflated and that's where your reaction is coming from.

YOu must think Fleury is top ten in the league material and that's why you assume by me saying Mason is better that I think Mason is top 5.

I don't. I think Mason might be top ten material and Fleury is probably top 20 material at this point.

The other point I was getting at is that There's a drop off after the very best of the best. 1-3 are amazing. 4-7 are a bit less amazing and the difference between 4-7 and 1-3 is much greater than the difference between 4-7 and 7-10.

This is why decent teams like the Bruins, Blackhawks, Sharks and Ducks don't seem to worry too very much about who their goalie is year to year. They know that unless they're playing a Quick or Lundqvist or someone that it's probably not going to make or break them and they might just as soon address their position needs... which is exactly what I think the Flyers should be doing at this point because Mason may not be top 5 material, but getting a top 5 goalie is pretty damn difficult so how about sharpening up the D instead.

Fleury is still serviceable, but his star and Mason's star are going in opposite directions. Sorry dude. Mason's a Calder winner who found his game again. Fleury's a cup winner who didn't exactly steal that cup on his own and whose team seems a bit out of sorts in front of him lately.

Doesn't mean squat. Neither one will steal a cup for his team at this point.

Won't disagree Mason MAY be moving in the right direction where Fleury has just now recovered from two abysmal postseasons, but I'm sorry, I'm not judging what MAY happen. I'm judging what they did last season and where their stats show them to be. They're both very middle of the pack mediocre. Neither stands out above the other in any significant way to me.

And if anything I have a DEFLATED sense of Fleury these past few years.

@flyercanuck

Don't Mistake my comments as saying Fleury is great. Hes got more wins over the past five seasons than any other goalie, and i still think hes average. Just understand that I'm saying Mason is no better yet. He may prove otherwise if he sharpens his skills, but not yet.

@

Sorry bud just gonna have to agree to disagree.

I just don't see the little cap difference to be off setting when this is the last year of his contract. It should be make or break time for Fleury.

I'd take Niemi over Fleury. And I strongly dislike Niemi and think he is the weakest link. I'd also take Mason over Niemi, but not by much.

His salary is a big point of favor over Fleury. I think they Pens would sign that deal in a heartbeat

Then I can add you to the list of people who are judging Fleury by two bad post seasons and who are clearly ignoring his positives. The guy is not Lundqvist, and I consider him mediocre.

But he had more wins than Mason, tied Niemi, better GAA than both, better save% than Niemi (Mason had .002% better), more time on the ice, more shutouts, and went 6-2 in shootouts with one of the best save percentages in shootouts of all goalies, particularly with more shootouts to participate in. Fleury's stats are overall better than both Mason and Niemi, and did so with a largely AHL roster in front of him last season.

Now I'm not claiming Fleury is a dominant goalie. Far from it. But you're nuts if you think Mason or Niemi are better at the position. They are ALL THREE very much equals at mediocrity in my eyes.

Fleury has proven he can win a Cup and gets paid accordingly. Niemi has as well. Mason is a question mark. Does the contract difference offset that? Would you pay the extra $1.6 million for a goalie that's proven he can win a Cup and just had a good rebound playoff season?

I stand by my comment that Fleury and Mason are very much on par with each other these days. And certainly if the Pens were going to dump Fleury they'd be looking for more than Mason to fill that role.

I will bet you cold hard cash the Penguins would trade Fleury for Mason in a heartbeat and sacrifice a virgin (as if there are any) down an abandoned coal mine in honor of whatever hethen god they worship in thanks and celebration.

Uhh... you are incorrect.  Fleury and Mason are very much equal.  Their stats bear that out. I get your love fest for Mason, considering how happy all of you were to be rid of Bryzgalov, but don't go jumping the gun with the kid.  Just because he's an improvement on your team doesn't mean he's a top notch goaltender.  And he's certainly nothing the Pens would trade Fleury for as he's unproven at best.  If this is all based on Fleury having two bad post-seasons, keep in mind he's also had two really good ones, and now this past season posted a respectable 2.40 GAA and .915 save %.  I'm all for supporting Mason, but don't overvalue him at the expense of Fleury.  (And I'm not even a Fleury fan)  At least not until Mason proves he can do more than be mediocre.  

Letang would be unreal for the oilers !! Everyone knows they are thin on the back end and adding Letang would take pressure of schultz, plus help out the powerplay. May be unrealistic however you never know with mactavish at gm he could make it happen. Overall oilers are a far ways away from anything at all but letang would definitely help the cause.

The guy's a world class offensive defenseman. But we don't even know for sure he's on the market. The Pens would want a pretty good return for him I'd think.