fanaticV3.0

See i'm spinning it in the positive light for the upcoming season. Kimmo i'm thinking a t a reduced role and more of a teacher on ice so to speak.Say back at 2-3 mill for one year would be tops for me.

 

Amac/Coburn

Kimmo/Schenn

GrossmanN/Streit

 

The mathcup Kimmo could make be the teacher on ice for Luke.

 

this would be a nice start during camp....or if you could trade GrossmanN

Amac/Coburn

Streit/Schenn

Kimmo/Alt

 

Or with this lineup Kimmo could help ease Alt into the lineup.

 

But with out some crazy trade/shake up i'd like to try to change the blueline slowly and not go into the next season with the same pairing as this past postseason....... something has to change to help figure out the Rangers cause well they now are the team to beat to get to where the Flyers want to be ...use to be the Penguins but they are in disarray and are not longer the team in the East to beat.

 

Yes i know Boston is good too but if they can figure out the Rangers riddle they should be ok be able to beat Boston too. First things first division opponents.

I'm ok with this, but you know if they resign him they're going to play him top 4, if not top 2, minutes. Sports sometimes lack creative thinking. Rather than doing something like what you suggested, they would milk him until he can't walk anymore.

Jokinen hit 30/60 with Carolina (and then dropped to essentially 20/50). Could he get back there with Giroux centering him? Maybe?

 

All comes down to cost - I don't expect to see Jussi in O&B.

It's something I'd be willing to take a chance on if the money was right. G is legit and Jake is claiming, so it's not crazy to think maybe he could.

@fanaticV3.0

 

The Rangers are a good team that plays a solid defense first style, coupled with one of the better net minders in hockey. The Penguins absolutely collapsed and Montreal is a fast team that put up numbers. I don't see why either team shouldn't be in the finals. 

 

I can see MTL beating the Rangers and winning the whole prize.

Good or currently playing well? Because there's a difference. They only had two more points than we did in the regular season, we're not anything special, and they had to go 7 games to get by us. They aren't especially consistent or dominant. Like us, they are kinda streaky, only a little better.

Montreal should beat the Rags, but who the hell knows this year.

Left wing, UFA, having a bit of a coming out party (7 goals) this playoff. $3M this season.

 

A potential fit on the Flyers' top line?

 

Discuss.

Soooooo he's not a center.....

Um, yeah I could give him a chance, just so long as he didn't cost too much. Ideally I'd like to have a 60 point guy on the top line with G and Jake, but I wouldn't turn Jussi away. Good suggestion Rad, now make it so.

So...the Rags and Montreal.

Who the hell are these people again? That's what I was thinking when I was watching the first round series against the Rags. Make no mistake, I'm not saying "this could have been us", but I find myself saying "The Rangers aren't even that good" many times this post season. Yeah, yeah, massive comeback. I know. It's still not the majority of the POs, which frankly they haven't looked like anything special. Are they and Montreal just (mostly before someone has a stroke) riding on the coat tails of a hot goalie?

If the West doesn't win the Cup I will be shocked.

James vanRiemsdyk says "hello"

 

I totally agree with everything you've got there. 

 

"Consistency" is the biggest challenge facing this - any - hockey team.

JVR frustrated me so much more than Schenn, but yeah that was an awful trade. We would have made out better if we got a bag of autographed pucks - preferably not Leafs plays - than we have with the other Schenn.

The really frustrating thing about the other Schenn is that he does try, he just stinks. He hits, isn't afraid to fight, but he's not a very good player. The only hope I have for him is that he's young, especially for a defenseman, and they sometimes take longer to develop.

to go a little further with this, of the "20 goal scorers" from the team this year, his number truly represents "scoring depth".  He was one of only a couple of players that didn't benefit from playing with Giroux.  He was not on the same PP unit as Simmonds , Hartnell and Voracek were, he skated only a handful of even strength shifts with Claude.  His 20 goals were largely independent of G.  So yeah, let's see what we might have here, with this Schenn.kid.  

Make no mistake, the kid did not blow me away this season. Personally I don't think he's a center. He has no defensive game at all and doesn't even try. And the points about him being in and out effort wise are totally true.But it's his first full season for Christ's sake. Cut the kid some effin' slack. It has become way too fashionable to criticize this kid.

And like you said, he got 20 goals in a "bad" year, while not playing with the team's top talent. If they can figure out this kid's role on the team, and he can put forth a little more consistent effort, I think he'll be fine.

How so? I don't like either player.

 

I am just calling a spade a spade.

A lot of what you are saying is about Moore. You keep talking about how he wouldn't have had an NHL career anyway and may or may not have fake the severity of his injuries. If was some of the very first things you wrote. Neither one of those things are relevant to what Bertuzzi did on the ice. It's very obvious you don't like the guy and your opinion is tainted because of that.

In general, he also overpaid with his picks when he made a trade.

 

MacDonald cost us a 2nd, a 3rd, and depth AHL player (Mangene). Montreal got Vanek and a 5th for Collberg and a 2nd. Isles got Halak for a 4th. 

 

Carcillo cost us Upshall AND a 2nd (Lessio); Carcillo cost the Rangers a 7th. 

 

Versteeg cost us a 1st and 3rd, and then we traded him about 27 games later for a 2nd and a 3rd. I mean, wtf?

 

Homer was VERY liberal in his distribution of picks. Which can partially explain our bottom-ranked AHL team (though things appear to be changing with last year's draft).

Yeah, I can agree with that. When he wants something, he spends a lot to get it, a lot to keep it here, and commits to it for too long.

I think it comes form the fear of the unknown and impatience    If I am Hexy I definitely keep the kid around and try like hell to move VLC no matter the return.   I a much more confident betting my 2nd line future on Schenn than Vinny.   I think we (collectively - fans, mgmnt, etc...) just need to let this kid develop.  They are young and they will get better....

 

The big question that comes to mind is management willing to be patient and let Schenn develop?  Based on what I heard yesterday it sounds like they are really taking stock int their youth and realizing you need to build through the draft.   I hope they really adhere to this philosophy...

I get that, but I'm so far from that with him it's not even a factor with me. I've been a little frustrated with Voracek in the past, but we're talking about a kid who was in his 4th year by the time he came here (the last two seasons I've loved Voracek btw). With Schenn, he literally just played his first full season as a pro. I'm more than willing to give him slack and time at this point.

I don't know why this is even a topic of conversation. If they end up moving him and I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but this whole he's not producing enough/might get moved stuff is coming almost exclusively from the fans imo.

You did see the "CSNPhilly" on the link, right?

 

The team's owner is paying him (fine, yes, another division of the team's owner, but, still...)

It doesn't mean he can't be right though. If he said something so clearly wrong we're all smart enough to know that.

Oh, I completely agree and I am not giving up on him... still young and needs time.   When he was sent over I was hoping for a 30 goal scorer but just not sure if that is what will come about.   I like the kid a lot and think he should remain on the roster.   Being bounced around sure has not helped his progress but right now he is a big question mark to me as it relates to his ceiling.

When he was sent over I read he was comparable to Mike Richards and likely to be even better. I also read Sean Couturier was a scorer.

This isn't directed at you specifically, but frankly I'm a little surprised this conversation even exists. It's stupid. We have a fanbase that bitches that management isn't patient with youth, but is the same group of people bitching about a player's production after his first full season. That's not to say you can't criticize the kid, but people went to defcon 1 a little too quickly for my tastes. People are making predictions on his career after his first full season; one in which he still managed to net 20 after playing several positions. Can we not talk about his shortcomings without going from a 0 to a 10?

I agree we don't know his ceiling yet. That's all the more reason I think we should relax.

The "best of" list is twice as long as the "worst of". Interesting.

I wouldn't count the Downie/Talbot trade as one of his worst. Downie sucked, but Talbot was mopey as f-ck here. He quit on this team when the going got tough.

The worst thing about Homer is the contracts he gave out. He overpays and in more ways than one. Too much money for the talent acquired, too long of a contract given, and the NMCs/NTCs got way out of hand. The old man has something to do with that. He is the king of knee-jerk reactions and going hard (too hard) for something when it's a weakness. Homer didn't do enough to talk him out of it though. Maybe he tried to reason with him behind closed doors, but too much caving to "Mr. Snider" goes in in this organization.

@radoran

 

 Wasn't it Pannacio who called Gostibehere "Ghostburger" or something like that yesterday on Hextalls PC? You'd think a guy who writes for the Flyers FOR A LIVING would know how to pronounce one of the most exciting D prospects we've had in a long long long time ok, ever...name

The stuff you get upset over, lol.

Believe it or not, I don't agree with this one:  June 7, 2011: Matt Clackson to Phoenix for rights to Ilya Bryzgalov

 

That's a good trade.  It's the contract that was ridonkulous.  2 separate issues--even though Timmy P does cover the signing under the FA part.

Very true.

That is the million dollar question for this Team...  Good luck Hexy!

 

Personally, and this is a gut feeling, I do not think Schenn will be a 25-30 goal scorer - or shall I say a consistent 25-30 guy. One thing I was hoping to see in his maturation process this year was more consistency which frankly was just not there. I am hoping I am flat-out wrong on this topic if he sticks around next year. Said it once and I will say it again that I really have a sense that Schenn is a goner via trade this offseason

I don't have any long term projections for him yet to be completely honest. I think it's a little too soon to make any definitive statements on his career either way. I don't know if he's going to be a bust, great, or something in between those two extremes, but 25 goals really isn't much of a stretch considering he just scored 20 in his first full season.

Second opinions would not matter. A slew of neurologists support the fact that he cannot return for fear of paralyzingly injury. His emergency room records thoroughly support that. Moore is a smart man, and maybe you should consider the doctors he's avoiding are the NHL payroll variety. Something I would do too.

Your refusal to see the plain as day fact that Bertuzzi INTENTIONALLY rides him down head first into the ice blows your entire argument as being subjective rather than objective. He DID give him a 200+ pound pile driver. That kind of attack can be lethal and from the emergency room reports it damn near was. One of those vertebrae slices the spinal cord and you're at a funeral instead if a lawsuit.

Frankly Joe your stance on this is ridiculous. You don't have to hate Bertuzxi or like Moore, but to ignore the facts of Bertuzzi's actions that are staring you right in the face is absurd. Watch the video. Please. Then tell me what made Bertuzzi "fall with" Moore? Or where Moore's sweater stretches out behind him as Bertuzzi tries to catch him as was so ridiculously stated earlier.

Screw any of Moore's supposed teammates and insider views. They stick together in the league. The video speaks for itself, you're just refusing to actually SEE it bud. There's no way in hell Bertuzzi was doing anything but riding him down to punish him. Did he know it would end his career? Absolutely not. Would he be found guilty in a criminal court with a beyond reasonable doubt standard?? 100% affirmative.

He's incapable of separating that stuff when really it's irrelevant to the incident on the ice.

@Samifan

 

 Holmgren said the same things when he came in. And as much as I knock Holmgren, he's left Hextall in decent shape as far as youth/prospects go.

Exactly right. On both points.

Yeah, I'd have to back and get some quotes, but there were things like Homer saying Vinny could play 2nd line center, and Brayden moves to wing, and I think both Homer and Snider saying Vinny can't remain a 4th line player for this team, and that he will rebound and work with Berube, etc. I just didn't see any kind of endorsement of Brayden, what role they see for him, what they expect of him, etc. So I just got the vibe that they were setting the groundwork for moving him. 

 

Of course, with Hextall a GM all bets are off. I think it makes it easier to move VLC, because Hextall is not the one who signed him. Less of an organizational embarrassment.

That doesn't mean they're gonna move Schenn though. There's a big difference between moving him to another position vs. another team. If they trade him I will riot btw.

I honestly don't think Vinny is going anywhere. Who is going to want him and his contract?

1. What was your favourite Holmgren trade/move?

 

2. What was the worst Holmgren trade/move?

 

3. What should be Hextall's first order of business?

1. Timonen, Pronger, Mason

2. Bryz by a long shot. The VLC signing was bad, but Bryz was in a league of his own.

3. Impact defenseman. They need a true #1 guy back there. Streit, MacDonald, and Grossman will look that much better as a result of it too.

At my age, I'm more concerned about 4 days from now!

Or how many times you're going to get up to pee throughout the night.

He intended, as I said above, for it to be a McCarty jumping Lemieux blood game style beating. He never intended to have it turn out as it did.

Bertuzzi jumped on Moore's guy's back. Nothing like that happened in either McCarty/Lemieux incident. That's a rather weak comparison.

He strikes me as an even lesser wing.

 

Schenn has produced more at the pivot and he's 22...VLC had a tough time staying on the ice this year and is 34 and a truly known quantity

I don't agree. @aziz is right. There is nothing about him that says center. He's has pretty much no defensive game, is better along the boards than the open ice, is not particularly good on faceoffs, and is a better shooter than passer. He doesn't have a well-rounded enough game to play the center position.

Don't give me the age argument (in regards to this particular point). VLC knows how to play center. It doesn't matter how old he is, or young Schenn is, if Schenn can't play the position.

Here's the only quote from Snider you need to know 

 

“It’s really Paul’s call,” Snider said. “All I have to do is endorse it. If I don’t agree with it, then we have a behind-closed-doors discussion.”

Seriously. Anyone jumping for joy over this is nuts. Ain't gonna mean **** until the old man steps down.

My bad. I wasn't suggesting we get rid of them this year, but that their contracts are such that the player will not likely live up to its value and expectations.

 

Hartnell was fine this past year. He may be fine next year, though I wouldn't count on it if he's moved off the top line. His production will most certainly drop. But what about the FOUR years after that when he's in his mid-30s? 

 

Same with MacDonald but for different reasons. I just don't think he's a $5M defenseman. IMO, Hjalmarsson (at $4.1M) set the bar for 2nd pairing defensemen, and I would take him over MacDonald 11 times out of 10. So the expectations on MacDonald will most likely not match his performance. Especially if the Flyers insist on setting him up for failure (expecting top line performance out of a bottom 4 defenseman). 

 

 

 

 

I agree. As I read between the lines in quotes from Homer, Snider, Berube, I get the feeling that Vinny is here to stay. I don't get that feeling with Brayden Schenn. They would rather move Brayden to make room for Vinny than the other way around.

I understand what you're saying now, but at the same time, I can't worry about that yet. I can't worry about a guy who might be a problem in four years. That's a lot of assuming. His production will eventually drop, I know that. But how much, I have no idea. He should be moved off the top line though (so should Raffl too). Neither one of them belong there.

I agree MacDonald is overpaid.

Really? I never got the impression they'd pick Vinny over Schenn. I never got the impression it was an either or, though I have to admit I haven't read a ton about it yet either.