The best 16 man fantasy hockey team...

[Polaris922]

Now I know there are numerous ways people can say "so and so shoulda been there instead of so and so"... but these rosters always amuse me. I thought you guys might like it because there are three Pens on the roster.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=639039&navid=DL|NHL|home

[OzFlyer]

Thanks for posting this list Polaris but who would be your first pick as a "Pens Fan" in this seaon's FHL? Would you risk your first pick on Sid or a top Goalie like Lunquist?

Edited August 4, 2012 by OzFlyer

[Vanflyer]

Now I know there are numerous ways people can say "so and so shoulda been there instead of so and so"... but these rosters always amuse me. I thought you guys might like it because there are three Pens on the roster.

http://www.nhl.com/i...vid=DL|NHL|home

Teemu Selanne on the bench?? Pfft. His 76 goals as a 22 y/o rookie deserves to be in as a starter. I easily put him in over Robatille and Stevens (who completely benefited from playing with Lemieux. Teemu did that with relatively nobody with him (Housely and Tchkuk were there, but not really anyone else).

[Vanflyer]

http://www.nhl.com/i...vid=DL|NHL|home

I liked this guys post too and thought the same thing when reading the list:

OaklandBlue60 minutes ago

It's a decent list, though one wonders how far back you could go before it got ridiculous. We have 100+ years of Stanley Cup Hockey on the books and as good as this list is, it's really isolated to 35 years and primarily East Coast teams.

We could sit here all day and night and discuss Roy, Plante, Espo, Richard, (Bobby) Hull, Conager, Day, etc. Lists like these are more about the Hockey you watched as a kid and the players you idolized moreso than pure stats. If you had to make a team up based solely on individual stats, like this article CLAIMS it did, you'd have a VERY different list than what this article portrays. The only one thing I disagree with this article is the words 'The Best', because it's anything but.

[Polaris922]

Thanks for posting this list Polaris but who would be your first pick as a "Pens Fan" in this seaon's FHL? Would you risk your first pick on Sid or a top Goalie like Lunquist?

I would always risk Sid simply because if he's healthy he's got the potential to lead in goals AND total points. Then maybe try for a Lundqvist/Rinne in the next round. My fantasy league I used to do didn't favor goalie stars as much as goals.

@Vanflyer

I loved Selanne... But the author does state based on fantasy league points systems and some (like the one I was in) gave points for assists and PIM too, so maybe that's where Stevens moves ahead? And in all honesty Stevens was one of the best power forwards of the era and would have excelled without Lemieux. Obviously not quite as much, but he was very good in his own right. Until the injury if course...

The comment about going back through time is spot on. Then it largely falls to preferences. I think the modern era players have a tougher road though than the earlier eras did so maybe that's why he preferred them? I dunno. That's why I opened the topic the way I did though.

[Vanflyer]

I loved Selanne... But the author does state based on fantasy league points systems and some (like the one I was in) gave points for assists and PIM too, so maybe that's where Stevens moves ahead? And in all honesty Stevens was one of the best power forwards of the era and would have excelled without Lemieux. Obviously not quite as much, but he was very good in his own right. Until the injury if course...

The comment about going back through time is spot on. Then it largely falls to preferences. I think the modern era players have a tougher road though than the earlier eras did so maybe that's why he preferred them? I dunno. That's why I opened the topic the way I did though.

Regarding Stevens, I find him akin to LeClair (LeClair had lindros as Stevens had Lemieux AND Jagr)- and frankly I think Leclairs prime years were better than Stevens (minus the PIMs). While Leclair was not a selke finalist, he held his own defensively during his prime. The same can not be said for Stevens.

Your points on the scoring are fair and I missed that. Regardless, any poll / list of that nature will come under the gun.

[Polaris922]

Regarding Stevens, I find him akin to LeClair (LeClair had lindros as Stevens had Lemieux AND Jagr)- and frankly I think Leclairs prime years were better than Stevens (minus the PIMs). While Leclair was not a selke finalist, he held his own defensively during his prime. The same can not be said for Stevens.

Your points on the scoring are fair and I missed that. Regardless, any poll / list of that nature will come under the gun.

I disagree on saying Leclaire was better than Stevens when comparing the two in their primes. Stevens didn't really play with Jagr so much, as the other wing for Lemieux was primarily Recchi then Tocchet after him.

Stevens had two seasons over 100 points (123,111) including over 200 PIM in the 123 point season. He scored 17 goals in one playoff year alOne.

Leclaire never crossed the 100 point line, though he was close twice at 97. He also never scored more than 9 goals in a playoff year. And he wasn't the physical beat you down, kick your butt threat Stevens was.

I liked Leclaire's game. Great power forward. But Stevens in his prime was one of the best to ever play that role. Ever. Ya gotta love a guy who scores 54 goals, 69 assists, and 254 PIMs! Plus another 54 PIM while scoring 17 goals 16 assists in the playoffs! You guys would have LOVED him in O&B... My favorite all time Pens player.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Polaris922

[DinahMoeHumm]

My favorite all time Pens player.

Mine too, just behind Aleksey Morozov (er, just kidding... about the Morozov thing)

[Vanflyer]

I liked Leclaire's game. Great power forward. But Stevens in his prime was one of the best to ever play that role. Ever. Ya gotta love a guy who scores 54 goals, 69 assists, and 254 PIMs! Plus another 54 PIM while scoring 17 goals 16 assists in the playoffs! You guys would have LOVED him in O&B... My favorite all time Pens player.

I do. Of course I am still bias to LeClair sans the PIMS with Stevens. Stevens was a prototypical Flyer that we would all have loved (and the argument would be reverse if he wore O&B and LeClaire wore B&G). The pisser is that you also got Tocchet, who was Stevens v. 1.1 or even the same (just minus the offensive skill).

Who was the GM then for those moves?

[Polaris922]

I do. Of course I am still bias to LeClair sans the PIMS with Stevens. Stevens was a prototypical Flyer that we would all have loved (and the argument would be reverse if he wore O&B and LeClaire wore B&G). The pisser is that you also got Tocchet, who was Stevens v. 1.1 or even the same (just minus the offensive skill).

Who was the GM then for those moves?

Craig Patrick was GM at the time. I liked Tocchet's game too but as you pointed out Stevens brought more offense. I also think Leclaire benefitted from Lindross' ability to take up space in the crease. Two big guys who had good chemistry.

I'll always consider Stevens to be The best player out of the ones in this conversation as of yet. His stats, playing style, emotion... The guy was as much of a beast in the NHL as anybody I've ever seen. I can't think of anyone else who's played "power forward" that tops him. Shame a plastic visor ended all of that.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Polaris922

[Vanflyer]

The guy was as much of a beast in the NHL as anybody I've ever seen.

Not to digress the topic, but do you put Stevens ahead of Lindros in the "beast" category that you have seen?

Since you are a Pittsburgh fan, I will give you a memory of "beast". Flyers v. Pittsburgh in the playoffs. I forget what year. Their was a game in Pittsburgh where Lindros controlled the puck for 30 seconds. He had two players on him, they hacked away his stick- yet he held the puck between his skates, picked up his stick, continued to muscle off the two Pitts players and made a one handed pass to LeClair in the slot. There have been many great feats in the NHL, but that was quintessential Lindros. I have never witnessed a player of that brute strength AND skill before or after.

Also, while your comments of LeClair having Lindros is good, Lindros seldom was in front of the net. It was always LeClair (and thus why he dwindle in later years due to a poor back).

[Polaris922]

Not to digress the topic, but do you put Stevens ahead of Lindros in the "beast" category that you have seen?

Since you are a Pittsburgh fan, I will give you a memory of "beast". Flyers v. Pittsburgh in the playoffs. I forget what year. Their was a game in Pittsburgh where Lindros controlled the puck for 30 seconds. He had two players on him, they hacked away his stick- yet he held the puck between his skates, picked up his stick, continued to muscle off the two Pitts players and made a one handed pass to LeClair in the slot. There have been many great feats in the NHL, but that was quintessential Lindros. I have never witnessed a player of that brute strength AND skill before or after.

Also, while your comments of LeClair having Lindros is good, Lindros seldom was in front of the net. It was always LeClair (and thus why he dwindle in later years due to a poor back).

Lindros was great but fragile. If he'd been able to keep his head up and avoid all of the injuries, then I'd have a tough choice to make there. As Lindros played, I still give Stevens the edge on him. Why? Lindros never scored 50 goals... Stevens did it twice. Lindros played an average of 60 games a season as a Flyer. Stevens played 78 per season prior to breaking his face. Lindros DID have a 115 point season which was great, but Stevens hit 111 and 123 in consecutive seasons. Lindros edges him in PPG if I only count the years before each got hurt. (Lindros played longer and sucked the last 3 or 4 years so I didn't count them because he played lOts of games with minimal production). Stevens sucked too his last few seasons but played far less games so I felt the number tilted unfairly in Stevens' favor. So Lindros at 1.36 PPG and Stevens at 1.22 PPG.

PIM matter to me. Stevens and Lindros were both huge bodies, physical guys... Players who punished the opposition. Lindros only broke the 150 PIM mark one time. Stevens did it four times. And I only count years with scoring production to compete.

On the flip side Lindros was always a plus player. Stevens had a -24 season in 93-94 (shudders).

So in summary... I guess though Lindros had a slight edge in PPG, his inability to stay healthy during those true "power forward" seasons prior to his major concussion problems and not being AS vicious in PIMs keep me leaning in favor of Stevens (prior to the face plant incident). I can also see why you'd flip flop them for the edge in points and stronger defensive play.

Either way they were two great power forwards who's careers ended much shorter than they should have due to injuries.

[Vanflyer]

As Lindros played, I still give Stevens the edge on him. Why? Lindros never scored 50 goals... Stevens did it twice.

I read your entire post- and it is a good reply.

You get the nod on durability with Stevens. The minus is a point I made before regarding Stevens. I am not belittling him, but he was an offensive player only.

The other point I would make is that Stevens played with two 1st ballot HOF centers (lemieux and francis) and a 1st ballot HOF RW (Jagr).

Look at what Tocchet did playing with those guys.

Stevens did not make other players around him better, but was the benefit of monster players he played with (see above). Lindros on the other hand made everyone around him better.

All that said, I think this deserves a poll / separate thread given it is summer time and we do not have anything better to talk about.