ScottM Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Does anyone else feel like this is basically a game of semantics at this point? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Actually, Karlsson does play on the PK at times. He's not as good at it as Subban, but he does do it. Pretty sure Pk is utilized on the pk and pp almost always. Does Karlsson pk frequently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 PK ends up fanning on the shot...but a wicked rush, wicked move....just sick talent. When he gets going, guys look like they are standing still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Pretty sure Pk is utilized on the pk and pp almost always. Does Karlsson pk frequently? Not nearly as much as Subban. He really just started playing it at all about two years ago. I honestly don't know why that aspect of the game hasn't clicked as well for him. He's got the smarts. I guess maybe his offensive instincts kick in too much at times. Edit: A lot of times when Karlsson plays the PK, it's because another defenseman is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Does anyone else feel like this is basically a game of semantics at this point? Lol Yea... Conclusion is...KarlssonPPOffenseClassSkatingPKpenalty killdefense.ChirpingPhysicality.If we really want to go in depth, we would have to analyze the gaps between what they are superior at... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Yea... Conclusion is...KarlssonPPOffenseClassSkatingPKpenalty killdefense.ChirpingPhysicality.If we really want to go in depth, we would have to analyze the gaps between what they are superior at... Neither is head and shoulders above the other. I guess it's all in what you expect from a guy. As I've said, I take Karlsson, but I understand why some take Subban. The two of them, Keith, and Doughty are probably the class of NHL defensemen at the moment. Take your pick from among them. Edit: I think the guys to look out for soon are Ekblad and OEL. I really like both of them a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 @JagerMeister I think Karlsson's shot from the point is more accurate, better for tipping etc....but when PK let's that howitzer loose, I think he has the hardest one timer in the league...but he does miss with it more than Eric does. When PK skates in from the point and rips one from 15 feet out, goalies must cringe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Perhaps another factor, in the playoffs, when the checking gets tighter, a physically superior player can impose his will on an opponent....just something to think about. Pure offensive players are easier to shut down in April and May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Neither is head and shoulders above the other. I guess it's all in what you expect from a guy. As I've said, I take Karlsson, but I understand why some take Subban. The two of them, Keith, and Doughty are probably the class of NHL defensemen at the moment. Take your pick from among them. Edit: I think the guys to look out for soon are Ekblad and OEL. I really like both of them a lot. Anyways, thia discussion was orgibally about where Karlssob will finish when his career concludes, whats your opinion on that? Whi do you think he can surpass.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 @JagerMeister I think Karlsson's shot from the point is more accurate, better for tipping etc....but when PK let's that howitzer loose, I think he has the hardest one timer in the league...but he does miss with it more than Eric does. When PK skates in from the point and rips one from 15 feet out, goalies must cringe. That probably explains a lot about the power play numbers. Btw, I looked up the Corsi and Fenwick stats for the two on Hockey Reference. Karlsson career: 54.9% Corsi, 52.8% FenwickSubban career: 50.6% Corsi, 51.6% Fenwick Those are close, but I think they do help to demonstrate Karlsson's effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Anyways, thia discussion was orgibally about where Karlssob will finish when his career concludes, whats your opinion on that? Whi do you think he can surpass.. We did get a bit off track, but I think the Subban comparison fits, because their battles will help to determine where Karlsson falls. Anyway, I still believe he'll get a couple more trophies. I think the top four are all but untouchable. I don't see him getting into that kind of company without ending up with 5 or 6. Reaching guys like Potvin and Shore would be tough as well, though somewhat more doable if he continues very strongly for several more years. I think two more Norris wins are probably required for that. Give him one more, and I think he's right on the edge of top 10 one way or the other. Of course, should Duncan Keith defy age and win another one, that conversation gets more complicated. If he never wins another but continues at a high level of play, I think the 15-20 range is likely. So, short answer: best case scenario: 6-7 range. Likely top scenario: top 10. Barring disaster but no more trophies: top 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 We did get a bit off track, but I think the Subban comparison fits, because their battles will help to determine where Karlsson falls. Anyway, I still believe he'll get a couple more trophies. I think the top four are all but untouchable. I don't see him getting into that kind of company without ending up with 5 or 6. Reaching guys like Potvin and Shore would be tough as well, though somewhat more doable if he continues very strongly for several more years. I think two more Norris wins are probably required for that. Give him one more, and I think he's right on the edge of top 10 one way or the other. Of course, should Duncan Keith defy age and win another one, that conversation gets more complicated. If he never wins another but continues at a high level of play, I think the 15-20 range is likely. So, short answer: best case scenario: 6-7 range. Likely top scenario: top 10. Barring disaster but no more trophies: top 20. Trivial disagreements but your stance is most accurate I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Trivial disagreements but your stance is most accurate I believe. Yeah, I think that's pretty close to your original answer. There's never going to be complete agreement on rankings, of course. What's your take, @jammer2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 @ScottM Well, I don't go by pure stats when discussing all time best d-men....I don't think Karlsson can crack *my* top 10...I put the Big 3 of Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe and Larry Robinson far above anything Karlsson has to offer....and that is knock on Eric, those guys were amazing athletes. Orr, Bourque, Lidstrom, Coffey, Savard, Lapointe, Robinson, Stevens, Niedermayer, Mark Howe, Potvin...that is 11 guys right there that I cannot see him passing...and I know I'm missing others...just off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 How about, where will Karlsson finish among the top point producers? If he finishes among the top ten point producers, he would be a worthy comparable to Paul Coffey. Perhaps even better if comparing how both have performed from ages 18 to whatever age Karlsson is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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