J0e Th0rnton

@J0e Th0rnton  It's the crest on the front, not the name on the back?!?!  Words to live by...lol.

haha. Well, I was a fan of a lot of players when i was younger. Particularly Neely and Bourque. So I naturally followed the bruins. but I always have followed players more than teams.

But things got tricky for a fan around the time Bourque retired. But still I cheered. But since around 1996, anytime a player on the team got, well, good, if his name was not Ray Bourque the Bruins management would trade the player because he wanted money. It was almost impossible to have favorite players. Saw so many players leave just because management wanted to have the second lowest budget in the league.....

No fan should have to put up with that for 10 years.

When they traded Thornton, it was kind of the last straw for me. All my favorites had retired or been traded and now the team was trading the only guy doing anything on the team. I decided to follow Thornton to the 2nd last place Sharks out of principle. I still cheered for certain bruins players like Bergeron and watched the games, but hated management. The Sharks went on a meteoric climb after the trade, while the Bruins plummeted to nearly worst in the league for 3 years. Seeing Sinden's face during the awards ceremony when Thornton was awarded the Hart trophy is still one of my favorite LOL moments of all time.

I cheered for the Bruins when they won the cup, but I still cheer for the sharks more and have gotten to know and love their players.

Unless they face the Bruins...

Sure

Remember I am a sharks fan now

All talk from the sharks indicate Hertl will play on the team. The question is in what capacity. Sheltered minutes or will he crack the top 6 as a winger? Pavelki often switches to wing.

I think they said it was his first time ever swinging golf clubs.

He will get plenty of practice for Golf come playoff time if he stays with the Habs

Uh oh. now I did it

In 3.....2.....1...

Thanks for the welcome. You have JT to blame for that.

 

As for Briere, I'm not sold on him but let's wait and see.

I invited you to our group PM so you would get to say hi to everyone

It is hard to pick goalies because they have such hit and miss seasons lol.

@Habsterix

Hey JL

Good to see you

I understand the guy has his off ice antics, but the impact he made for them in the playoffs was immediate, He has to at least be somewhat of a presence in the locker room or at least was.

 

Its also understandable that you can't keep a cancer outside of the team on the team.

See, when I heard he was suspended by nashville for a game in the playoffs, I figured it was something major. By the version I heard, him and Kos were only at the bar because the only places to eat were on the other side of town, the whole team went there and that he was only 15 minutes late for curfew.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/07/22/ex-predators-winger-alexander-radulov-opens-up-about-night-out-in-phoenix

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1198348/

 

The soiree at the W—alcohol free, according to a source—was followed by an L for the Predators: The Coyotes dominated uncharacteristically sloppy Nashville 5--3 that night. Kostitsyn scored, but Radulov, other than an assist on a power-play goal, was noticeable only for his sloth. During the second intermission NBC Sports Network in-studio analyst Keith Jones, who customarily prepares highlight clips that range from 23 to 27 seconds, offered one minute and seven seconds of Radulov's hockey misdemeanors during the first two games of the series, a devastating show-and-tell that stripped the two-time MVP of Russia's Kontinental Hockey League and sold him for parts.

Then Radulov's evening really turned lousy.

Although one team official learned about 30 minutes before Game 2 that Radulov and Kostitsyn had broken the Predators' midnight curfew, he did not feel that it was the appropriate time to relay the news to coach Barry Trotz or general manager David Poile. Trotz learned of the indiscretion after his postgame press conference, when a reporter pulled him aside and mentioned that media members had spotted the two players out late the night before. When the Predators returned to the team hotel adjacent to Jobing.com Arena in Glendale, Trotz checked the security logs: Radulov and Kostitsyn indeed had returned around 1 a.m.

Radulov was summoned to a lobby restaurant, where Trotz was waiting, stiff in his white shirt and suit slacks. The tableau looked like a scene from The Godfather. They talked for 45 minutes. Two days later the Predators suspended the 25-year-old winger, their leading playoff scorer with six points, and Kostitsyn, a 27-year-old second-line wing. The players missed Game 3, an industrious 2--0 Nashville win, and then, because Trotz was not inclined to change a winning lineup, were scratched for Game 4 two nights later, when the Predators, lacking finish, lost 1--0. "It was a pretty easy decision," Poile said in announcing the suspension. "Our creed has always been to do the right thing." The moral high ground had a spectacular view of the abyss; down 3--1 in the series, the Predators faced elimination in Game 5 on Monday night.

For hockey's chattering classes—including some NHL executives—the Scottsdale episode represented a "Russian problem." Forget that while Radulov grew up in Nizhni Tagli, Kostitsyn is actually from Belarus. In the Russian Devolution all semblance of nuance is lost. Although it has been more than two decades since marquee players left a crumbling Soviet Union to play in the NHL, players from former bloc countries often are still tossed into the same pot of borscht. When former Flyers captain Mike Richards and teammate Jeff Carter—who helped the Kings into the Western Conference finals with a sweep of St. Louis—were exiled by Philadelphia last summer amid rumors of excessive partying, their story was never framed as an example of the shortcomings of Canadian players. But Russians (and fellow travelers) are not given the same benefit of individuality. They are, in the collective imagination of many in the league, me-first players who are shy on sacrifice and not fully committed to the idea of the Stanley Cup as the ultimate hockey prize.

"Their mentality is what it is," says Devils forward Patrik Elias, who is Czech. "A lot of the times they're being brought up to be individual players throughout their careers, because if you have the skills, you've got to show it.... And I think it's an adjustment for some of the guys to come here and build into that team system."

Thornton was also absent but as a new parent, I completely understand since his kid is in the hospital

Hahaha. Once a loafer always a loafer. Getting rich is a true character and discipline test. One a lot of guys fail

Hmmm. I can agree mostly

Chris Pronger

http://youtu.be/1hzlI1TqL6w

Can't really argue that.

But god I loved him as a player and hated him at the same time

@flyercanuck I don't want to get into a great debate either, but I do think that people that kill cops while committing a crime should face the death penalty. There needs to be more deterrents to insure police officers get to go home every night to their families. If it's totally clear cut and on tape, if irrefutable evidence, they should die. Just my 2 cents. For instance, in my Canada, a disgusting crime like Paul Bernado and Karla Homolka committed would be a death sentence. They got caught on tape, so it's irrefutable, tax payers should not be footing the bill for them. Now we find out Homolka got a sweetheart deal and Paul is applying to a minimum security prison, where they have actual condos for prisoners....DISGUSTING!!!

I actually agree.

Not to get into politics here, but when it is a "no chance this is an error" kinda case with Bernardo, and his videos he kept of himself raping innocent 13-14 year old girls and then murdering them......

I don't want my tax dollars paying a guy to watch him in prison, I want him dead.

I honestly feel like the penalty for Rape and child molestation(Without murder) should be castration. The laws we have are really not harsh enough to be a deterent. We see serial rapists who raped 10 people get out in 3-4 years. Christ, they should do 3-4 years per person with no chance of parole.

Been checking that site for years

Love it, although i often disagree with some descriptions and reviews of a fight

Just thought of one.

Spacek

Hated playing against him, but loved his work ethic

But he wasn't protection for Mario. He went after other teams superstars, not the guys who cross checked Mario.

I loved Ulf... he was no different than lots of other enforcers. HIs teammates defended him with zeal... and he was thought of as reckless, not intentionally hurting players. BY most anyway. I find it ironic so many Flyers fans hate him so passionately... it's all about the uniform. He's another one of those guys you love on your team, hate him on any other.

"He's got a junkyard-dog mentality, he's tougher than nails, and he's got a terrifically high threshold of pain," says Bill Clement, a member of the Philadelphia Flyers' Broad Street Bullies who now does television commentary on Flyer games and for ESPN. "He would have fit right in with the Flyers of the '70s, beside guys like Eddie Van Impe and Moose Dupont. He's crude, but Dick Butkus was crude, and he's in the pro football Hall of Fame. To me, Samuelsson is like a linebacker on skates."

"He's a throwback to the old-time defensemen," says Scotty Bowman. "He stays back, he's not afraid to take a check, and he's not afraid to give a check. He's always there; he never backs off. He asks no quarter, and he gives no quarter."

"Number one, I don't like him," says Oiler coach Ted Green. "Number two, I'd love to have him on my club."

Rick Tocchet was no fan of Samuelsson's, until he was traded to the Penguins by the Flyers last season. "No, I didn't like him," says Tocchet, a forward with a seemingly permanent four-stitch cut across the bridge of his nose. "In fact, like most people who don't know him, I hated him. But now he's probably one of my best friends on the team. I'd do anything for the guy."

LOL just some examples of how the professionals felt... and he was effective too...

"At week's end the Penguins had scored 30 more goals when Samuelsson was on the ice than they had allowed."

So hate him... I'll always love him. LOL

Well, if he ended, say, Mark Howe's career with a dirty hit I bet you would feel differently

When Domi hit him, I recall Richter giving a shoulder shrug "WTF", and I do not recall Ulf's teammates exactly rushing at Domi in his defense. But maybe I just missed it in the highlights. The rest of the league was elated haha. it was a carnival of schadenfreude

Those quotes of him are nice, but there are others from that same article.

"His job is to hurt people," said Minnesota North Star center Mike Modano during the 1991 Stanley Cup finals. "He goes for the knees a lot. He takes runs at you, and really all he's trying to do is hurt you and knock you out of the game."

A few examples. During the 1984-85 season, while he was playing for the Whalers, Samuelsson apparently flicked his stick into the eye of Montreal Canadien forward Pierre Mondou, causing permanent damage that brought Mondou's career to a premature end. Samuelsson said that it was an accident and that he wasn't sure whether his stick or someone else's struck Mondou. In 1991 Samuelsson's hits caused knee injuries to Minnesota's Brian Bellows and Montreal's Brian Skrudland. His most infamous run-in came during the Wales Conference finals that year when he collided with Cam Neely of the Boston Bruins. The resulting thigh and knee trauma has kept Neely, one of the league's best players, out of action for nearly two seasons.

When Samuelsson was with Hartford, Neely went after him on several occasions. The fights were always one-sided, with Neely throwing most of the punches, but Samuelsson, beaten but unbowed, stubbornly refused to modify his style. "Here's a guy who's not afraid to crosscheck you, use his stick or whatever," Neely says. "When you play the way he does, you've got to be willing and able to back yourself up."

"Let's put it this way: He has a zest for life," says center Ron Francis, who, along with defenseman Grant Jennings, was traded with Samuelsson from Hartford to Pittsburgh for center John Cullen, defenseman Zarley Zalapski and right wing Jeff Parker in what turned out to be a steal for the Penguins. "I've been playing with him nine-plus years, and I still shake my head at the things he does. He's as crazy as ever."

And other articles lol.

Big hits like those, though, only provide a hint of why he is so hated around the National Hockey League -- after all, collisions along the boards are a staple of North American hockey. But with Samuelsson, there always seems to be the question of whether the elbow came up too high, whether the knee was thrust out deliberately, whether the stick somehow gravitated faceward at the last possible second -- any of which would make the check illegal and raise the ultimate question: is the player writhing on the ice because of a hard but legal check or because Ulf Samuelsson gave him a cheap shot?

This October, in his third game with the Rangers, Samuelsson was standing in front of the Ranger net, alongside Toronto's maniacal goon, Tie Domi. When the other players moved up the ice, Domi whirled around, shed a glove and his stick and drilled his left fist into Samuelsson's mouth. The Ranger dropped like an anvil, out cold even before he hit the ice, where he lay for about five minutes before being helped off the ice. When asked what action the league should take against Domi, Mathieu Schneider, the Islanders' defenseman, replied, "For hitting Ulf? A bonus." In fact, the league suspended Domi for eight games.

Last month at Madison Square Garden, for example, he rammed his stick between the legs of an Ottawa Senators forward, Trent McCleary, sending the rookie into a rage. In the ensuing action, McCleary was nailed with a five-minute major penalty for apparently blind-siding an unsuspecting Samuelsson with an illegal, open-ice check that left the defenseman sprawled on the ice, to all appearances in agony and seriously injured. But the slow-motion replay showed that, far from being caught unawares, Samuelsson had glimpsed McCleary preparing to level him and surreptitiously braced himself for the impact. Sure enough, after chewing the scenery for a minute or so -- while the penalty was assessed -- Samuelsson skated off to the bench, where he snickered with teammates before returning minutes later for his regular shift on the ice.

As a Penguin in the 1991 Stanley Cup finals, Samuelsson collided knee to knee with Minnesota's top scorer, Brian Bellows, away from the play, slowing down Bellows for the rest of the series. Early the next season, he submarined Montreal's Brian Skrudland, tearing Skrudland's knee ligaments and sidelining him for almost two months. One night in 1992, he worked over the Rangers' Mike Gartner so badly that linesmen had to restrain the normally mild-mannered Gartner from bashing Samuelsson's head with his stick. In 1993, Samuelsson ran the Rangers' captain, Mark Messier, just returned from a rib injury, into the boards at Madison Square Garden. Messier responded by dropping Samuelsson with one punch, which started a brief stick fight between the two players.

In his five months since joining the Rangers, Samuelsson has already been involved in a number of dust-ups. During a scrimmage on the first day of training camp, he retaliated against the rookie forward Rick Willis, who had just cut another rookie with a high stick, by cross-checking Willis in the face and slamming him into the boards. "Like a shark, I saw blood on the ice," Samuelsson told The Times's Joe Lapointe, conceding that maybe "it's a little early for stuff like that." In a preseason game he speared New Jersey's Stephane Richer, and early in the season he brought down the Hartford star Brendan Shanahan from behind with a flying football tackle, tearing a ligament in Shanahan's wrist.

Spidey! is that you?

Haha Parros will give you at least someone who can fight back

Last Andreychuk point I want to throw in then I will get off the subject, he is the all time leader in power play goals, nobody active is likely to come close to breaking the record. That has to count for something.

Only because he played in the 80's.

Unless the game opens up again and pads shrink, nobody is likely to beat many records set in that era

Another thing I'd like to propose:

If we're going to go through the process of voting, I'd like to ensure that we don't just concentrate on the last two or three decades, and make an attempt to look at players from decades gone by. For those who know about these guys, it's a chance to fill other people in about them, to spread knowledge of the game. For those who don't know about some of those players, it can help create more appreciation for different eras of hockey, those players, and help provide context for how to view modern players as well.

JR

Sounds like a plan to me.

Regarding "Where do we cut off"

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_100_greatest_hockey_players_by_The_Hockey_News

I would say the top 31 players at least are easily going to make their way into the Hall of fame without much argument or need for validation. Their accomplishments speak for themselves.

Some of the names below the top 31 I have never heard of, so i would need to look into them.

I'm guessing you didn't get past the thread title. lol

Anyway, I certainly don't mean to impose MY way of looking at these things on to everybody else. There's any number of ways we could go about. I proposed a Keltner List approach as its quick and allows things to move along. If others wish to put the players to vote, that's certainly an option too, though it would definitely increase the time (which isn't always bad) between players inductions. We could create a series of polls and have them run for a certain amount of time (a week, for example) and then create a minimum percentage of votes for players to require in order to be inducted. This would be a chance for people to make their case (well reasoned, idiotic and everything in between). My only fear is that discussion may be diminished due to that approach, but it could work very well, too. Also, the chance for jackass votes exists, as well.

JR

haha. So far this forum seems like it could handle the poll

I am up for this. I like the discussions.

Will we be skipping the obvious hall of fame guys? I mean autoinducting them?

Obviously we do not need to have a discussion on the merits of the top 20 players of all time lol.

I am assuming we can use our own Criteria? Certain intangibles mean more to people than others

Edit, and would we have a panel and vote in process?

@fanaticV3.0

How many players did Samuelsson hurt with dirty gutless cheapshots? He had that coming to him, no matter who it was from. Practically the entire hockey world cheered that suckerpunch.

Exactly.

When many players around the league are suggesting Domi get a raise instead of a suspension, it should raise a few eyebrows.

Ulf deliberately took players out with far worse cheapshots and ended careers. At worst, Ulf got a punch and a nap. Ulf was a guy who would fight and give little punches back, axehandle you with his stick, but keep his visor on so your punches did no good. if you managed to get his helmet off, he would turtle. He never paid the price for thingsbecause he wore armor and hid.

All Domi did was throw a punch just about every player in the NHL wanted to throw, but feared the consequences.

ill put it to you this way. If a news report came in that a group of fans had pinned Ulf down and crushed his knee with a cynderblock, I would have cheered.

I would not wish that on any hockey player ever except Ulf. he is THE dirtiest player ever

Thornton has a few things against him

No cup. Although it is a team game and every year there can be only one no cup is no cup.

Where is Pavel Bure's cup? Marcel Dionne? Cam Neely?

Was supposed to be the final piece of the puzzle to get the Sharks over the top. Never happened (yet).

Wha??

When he was acquired, the Sharks were the team that just sucked. They could not adjust to the new NHL. The previously got by using clutch and grab trapping and the new NHL was destroying them.

The were the last or 2nd last team in the league, and on a 10 game losing streak. He dragged them from bottom barrel to a 99 point season.

IMHO I believe Joe is as cerebral as any player in the game. HE doesn't use his size to his maximum advantage, true and he could and should shoot more but wow what a first pass.

Neely is not the best com, INHO, Lindros is.

He definitely could stand to shoot more like he did in his early days. He once used his size a lot more, but was suspended a few times for being a bit too chippy. A few years back, he threw what i think was a clean hit(It actually was not even a hit. He just skated in front of him and planted his feet to stop him) on a blues player, knocking him out and was suspended 2 games.

Nice mantle piece for individual awards

Never won a cup (Again YET in Joe's case)

Whined his way out of town where he was drafted

This confuses me a bit. Thornton most certainly did not whine his way out of town. He was shocked when he was traded. He had just signed an extention for 3 years and was the only Bruin doing anything t win. 33 points in 23 games and nobody else was scoring. As I recall, when they were losing(Mostly due to management signing a bunch of big slow 3rd rate players), Jacobs instead of having a talk with the team went in front of camera's and bashed the team.

But he never whined his way out of town. He had just bought a house and talked nonstop about how much he loved the team.

@J0e Th0rnton Ya know bro, I'll never forget the first time I ever saw Joe in the OHL. It was early 1995 and he was about an inch shorter than he is now, about 6'3 and probably about 205 instead of his present day 235....but WOW, was he impressive. I remember his wing span was just huge, cutting off passing lanes, winning face offs at will, and he was rookie. I thought to myself, that kid is gonna be something special. He didn't score the first time I saw him, but he was impressive, hitting 2 goal posts and set up a teammate for a tap in. I write little notes on the program to jog my memory for future games and it's nice to look back and see my initial thoughts on a kid decades later. I wrote "this Thornton kid is amazing, could be a first overall pick"....and sure enough, I turned out to be right. Even as a rookie, he was like a man among boys.

I wonder how Joe fares in the Hall of Fame game. RIght now, he's got a couple major trophy's on his mantle, the Hart and the Art Ross, those are some impressive things to own. He's still averaging a point a game for his career. I do think he will need to win a Cup to cement his HOF entry, but as far as the test of time goes, he has passed that test. Another point you seem to make a lot, and it's so true, Joe makes those around him better, a legit testament to his true stardom. I don't think any of us would know who Cheechoo is if it were not for Joe. Like a lot of true greats, he makes average players and turns them into all stars.

I don't think so myself, although i obviously am dying for it to happen.

There are quite a few guys in the Hall of fame with weaker resume's than his who have never won a cup.

Joe has a claim to several things. Back to back 90 assist seasons are a thing only Lemieux and Gretzky have done. In fact, only 5 players have ever scored 90 assists. Joe also has 3 Assist titles in a row, a rare feat. Runner up for 2 more assist titles, and 3rd another year(as well as 7th, 8th and 10th)

He has already solidified a place among the greatest playmakers of all time.

When looking at overall points, he has been 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 8th. He has multiple years where he was a Hart nominee. 4th, 1st, 3rd, 6th.....

That's a lot of time being one of the best players in the league in terms of the Hockey Hall of fame.

Pavel Bure was recently inducted. His goalscoring is impressive. But not as impressive as Thornton's playmaking all time in anything but flash. Bure has no cup to his name. Nor was he ever considered the best player in the league(was 3rd for the hart once).

Cam Neely, a huge favorite of mine growing up is in. And that shocks me given his body of work