Molly Bell

44 minutes ago, thegx.ca said:

That's not a fair thing to say that if nothing illegal happened why do you need a video...that's like trump saying you should cooperate with the police and not keep your right to silence if you have nothing to hide...if there's a video of verbal consent that'd exactly what it is verbal consent and speculation of duress etc is just speculation...if she recanting what she said in the videos for whatever reason fine but that's just like buyers remorse like being ok with everything at the time of the incident then changing her mind later after it all done with...either way I don't think it's fair to cadt doubt upon the fact the videos were made...I mean jeez people record legal and illegal stuff all the time so why should the existence of video evidence be viewed as anything less than what it is - which is a just simple video evidence?

According to the Criminal Code of Canada, consent must happen at the time of the act. So those videos after the fact mean nothing regardless. 

It’s not a competition. This is a hockey forum. There is a systemic race culture in hockey. Period. 

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/with-players-from-2018-world-junior-team-charged-lawyers-say-behind-the-scenes-legal-battles-brewing-1.2070822
 

Rick Westhead with another insightful article.

There was a 16 year intoxicated girl raped by Ben Johnson of the Windsor Spitfires in a bathroom stall. They were both underage in a bar. The NJD dropped his contract when he was charged and he was found guilty. 

13 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Look at what the statement says.

 

"At the time"

 

The news hadn't come out. I'd imagine the lawyers were alerted - much as I believe this is why Hart's social media was deleted over the summer.

 

But, also, why does it matter? Would they deny his leave?

 

The NHLPA wouldn't allow the contract to be voided without a conviction.

 

The whole 2018 team has had a cloud over them until it focused on these five. If they knew nothing about that, then they're irresponsible fools who should have no bit of control over a professional Hockey franchise at any level.

This statement is rubbish. The Flames absolutely knew he was part of the 2018 World Junior Team and charges were likely. Their first press release indicates Dube was “under doctor’s care for mental health issues.” If a player has a health issue and is requesting a leave of absence surely a doctor’s note would be necessary. Clearly that was a lie. Now they insinuate Dube was lying? Last, there iare zero apologies here for referencing mental health as the excuse used. What a slap in the face to people who truly suffer from mental illness. 

36 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

That reporting runs contrary to literally every other article I've read, which indicated that E.M. was 20 years old.

None of them would have been able to legally be in that bar unless 19 or older. Also, if she were a minor at the time, THAT WOULD MAKE THIS EVEN WORSE, if that’s even possible! 

26 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

And the fact the poor child was 16 at the times just makes my blood boil.

 

As a father of a 12 year old boy crazy daughter right now you guys will just have to excuse me i can't converse on this matter to much.

 

All i hope is that justice is served at it's fullest!

who are you referring to that was 16 at the time? In this case all were of age.

7 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

 

I've cited examples where it happened and research suggests at least 8% of the time sexual allegations are made up.  Most of the time its real.

 

You dont know - even if your mind seems already made up - if this accusation against Hart and company is legitimate or not.

I don’t know where you are getting the 8% percent figure, but even so, that’s only 8% of the 10% of sexual assaults that ARE reported. 90% ARE NOT REPORTED. So again, false accusations are NOT the problem. Does it happen? Sure. Does it happen often? No. Does it happen even a little bit? Hardly. 
 

The National Registry of Exonerations reports that since 1989, only 52 men have been exonerated due to the false rape allegations.

This number is compared to 790 overturned murder cases. This means that men falsely accused of rape are often able to dissolve these matters before spending substantial time in jail.

Please watch The Anatomy of a Scandal I posted the link above. You will quickly understand that no one is “making up” stories. I am sure their defence will be about consent. They will not nor cannot deny they had sex. It will be interesting. Ben Johnson, who played for the Windsor Spitfires and drafted to NJ, was arrested and tried for sexual assault in 2013. The victim was inebriated. The judge found him guilty because she could not give consent. He was sentenced to 3 years in prison. Oh, and of course, NJ terminated his contract. 

The Fifth Estate on CBC aired an episode is called An Anatomy of a Scandal last year. It is very enlightening and depicts clearly the timeline of events. I recommend you watch it if you haven’t done so already. 
 

5 minutes ago, flyerrod said:

Did you ignore my first statement? If they are guilty they should be charged. How is that giving anyone a pass? I also mentioned a few high profile persons on both sides of the problem. 

False sexual assault accusations are not an issue. SA is extremely hard to prove.

If someone is found guilty of sexual assault, then they are.

On 1/25/2024 at 7:26 PM, JR Ewing said:

 

I do like how you went from how she "received 2.5 million" to "there was a confidentiality agreement". Let me know when you make up your mind.

 

Also: welcome to Hockey Forums, and I really do mean that. I'm not trying to pick on you.   

Both can be true.

yes there was a confidentiality agreement. Yes it’s been reported (by Rick Westhead I believe) that the victim was paid “millions”. (I thought I read 2.5).

I don’t really care. 

3 hours ago, hmc687 said:

 

Simple rape case.  Police do not charge those involved and are cleared.  Now there's a conspiracy in which police may have behaved criminally and covered things up.

 

Again, this is all speculation.  We'll let the court system play out and see what happens, but the language used by grown adult men on this forum to bury young men/kids for...allegations that were initially rejected.  Saying these adult grown men are immature is a damn euphemism...

if you followed the details of this case, Hockey Canada told the players NOT to speak to the investigators. In fact, when HC was notified that the victim went to the police the next day, someone with HC notified the players and they left London. The London Police dropped the ball because they did not do their due diligence in investigating. These players (all of them whether they were involved or not), did not cooperate with the investigation back then. They weren’t “cleared” as you suggest. They weren’t charged (at the time). Trust me, the police would not reopen the case and charge 5 players for a crime that happened 5 years ago if they do not have very convincing evidence. 

3 hours ago, flyerrod said:

Don’t know the background to the story but if they are guilty they should be punished. The problem is the false accusations that are straight up money grubbing individuals are as often as not the case. Amber Heard says hello…..

Think about what you just wrote. You claim many sexual assault accusations are false, and are done so for money.

Do you realize that, statistically, over 90% of all rapes go unreported? And of those 10% that are reported, less than 5% are straight-out false accusations and/or recanted for other reasons. 
 

So factually there are only a minuscule number of accusations that are false.

Comments like yours and others on here is exactly why most women do not report being sexually assaulted; because they are rarely believed, especially when the accused is an athlete or famous or both. 

Pilldoc. It’s Province not Providence. 
 

As someone who worked in Canadian Law firms for Civil Law lawyers, I know how it works. 
 

As well, I billeted OHL players. I believe every single victim. The hockey culture is outrageous. 

1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

 

There isn't really a non-disclosure clause, because the Supreme Court of Canada declared that every out-of-court settlement in Canada must remain private. Maybe she received millions, and maybe she didn't, but Hockey Canada didn't need to pay her far more than a court would have awarded her to ensure her silence since neither side is allowed to talk about it.

 

I just don't think it's appropriate to talk about her getting millions of dollars when there just isn't evidence of it.

Yes there was a confidentiality agreement. Provinces have been maki g these illegal since this happened. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/growing-calls-outlaw-non-disclosure-agreements-canada-1.6546531

46 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Every bit of reporting I've seen stated that she sued for $3.5 and received an undisclosed amount. I'm not trying to nitpick, but I think it's important to speak accurately in these matters, since there's always a knuckle dragger or two who will take immediate position that she saw this as some sort of get-rich-quick scheme. In Canada, the maximum amount of damages you can receive in a personal injury case is $414,689, reserved for catastrophic injuries, such as being paralyzed, severe brain damage, etc. She could sue for things like loss of wages, future income, etc, like Steve Moore did with Todd Bertuzzi, but she wouldn't have been likely to score a major windfall there, either.

 

The actual settlement amount is probably stunningly low, given what she endured.

 

while that may be true, an out of court settlement can be any amount. And let’s not forget part of her settlement included a non-disclosure clause. HC more than likely paid well above the “maximum” to keep her quiet.

5 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

I thought that the settlement amount wasn't public information? Indeed, Hockey Canada has paid out at least $17.xM that we know about, because that's the amount that the National Equity Fund was improperly used for, but to the best of my knowledge we haven't heard that this woman received millions of dollars.

I think she sued for 3.8 million and received 2.5 million. I’m unsure where I read that.

On 1/24/2024 at 1:46 PM, mojo1917 said:

I don't think I agree with this.

If these players are found guilty they should be made to pay the consequences. I'm not talking punitive damages, I'm talking prison, probation debt to society.

That will change the lives of those involved.

 

If they are found not guilty, that's a different matter entirely.  I doubt the accuser will have enough money to handle the defamation suits that may follow a verdict of not guilty.

There are processes in place for the wrongfully accused to receive their justice.

The hue and cry of "Cancel Culture" often rings hollow or like a strawman argument to me.  In this instance it sounds like a poor excuse is being made for young men who should know better. 

I will let the court decide now that there are charges and I will accept the verdict. 

 

 

 

 

 

Men are found “not guilty” of sexual assault ALLLLL the time. It is very hard to prove in a court of law. It doesn’t mean the men are innocent nor that the assault didn’t happen. If the Ceown cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt a crime occurred, that doesn’t mean the victim is lying. They cannot sue her for defamation. Clearly Hockey Canada through their internal investigation concluded their players were at the very least inappropriate and settled for a few million with the accuser.