radoran

5 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I HATE the feeling of knowing my team is irrelevant 3 weeks into a season.  You know how I know that feeling?

Someone thought it would be wise to "tear it down" and build it back up. 

In fairness, the O's simply don't have the money to compete on the big level. Ownership has said it.

The problem I have is essentially the same. Watching a franchise tread water for decades effectively makes every game more or less irrelevant.

Are the games fun? Sure, they can be. It's a great sport. If you want to be entertained, that's one thing.

Winning a Championship is different.

The Phillies were irrelevant for 30 years save a miracle run in 1993. When they got Star players like Hamels, Rollins, Utley, and Howard it meant they were able to compete on a different - relevant - level.

I mean no disrespect to our Wild posters on here when I compare us to them. Many of them say the same thing about their franchise.

I believe Briere Jones LLP when they say their goal is to win a championship. I'm just not confident - at this point - that they are effectively moving in that direction.

The unfortunate reality is that the damage done by the Fletcher regime in contracts and clauses continues to hamstring the organization. A top six center (14 - until he proves he can play again) and a top four D (55 - by contract) are two huge gaps on a salary cap.

The team played above itself for 70 games and then ran out of gas while other teams were ramping up their second gear.

Whocouldanode?

And the first real stretch of adversity comes as bottom feeders are motivated to play spoiler.

To your point, NOW is a good "tank" stretch. Dive down below Buffalo (like I am, under clouds, waiting for the clouds to darken this afternoon).

10 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Did Tortorella mismanage Couturier this year? I'm sitting pretty far away to make that call. He's been steadily decreasing his ice time the past few months so we know Tortorella's managing his ice time.

Couturier got an injury in January and was playing ~20 minutes a night before that. Pretty safe to say he'd be getting the same minutes without the injury, given that they're in a "playoff race."

When paid Flyers writer Bill Meltzer is questioning the move, I don't think it's a few posters on here going off reservation.

This is Torts' game, as you point out. I'm not "concerned" any more than I have been when the Flyers have run other players - willingly - into the ground.

One (who said it shortened his career) is being honored April 13.

Finally, "to win the game" is specifically NOT what they said this season was about. It was about developing culture and obviously accountability for everyone is part of that.

But benching your month-old captain IS a bold move.

9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Thing is, I wasn't disappointed with how Couturier was playing. I was expecting some lulls in his effectiveness. 

Right, but it's just an unforced error. No need to have made the move to name a C. His game went off a cliff right after (more injury than the C).

The idea a guy plays 74 hockey games in 3 years - including an entire season out - and he's out there for 20 minutes a game for the first five games?

9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Fonzie has to answer for the mismanagement of the player.

I hope it's the first question Anthony SanFillipo asks him.

Unconventionally, he ducked the pregame presser.

There have been other Fonzie issues - like benching Sanheim in front of his family (I think there was another example of this).

Goes back to the "one playoff round win in 10 years" on his resume. Sure, it's the first one Columbus ever won...

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

Hopefully they rush Drysdale back for the playoff push! 

First thing I thought of...

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I think Sean is running on fumes. 

Returning from back injury? check.

Has played 74 hockey games in 3 years? check

Has been put into a position of great responsibility sooner than needed? check

Was overplayed when he first came back? check

Is now "disappointing" and a healthy scratch "to make a point"? check

#neweraoforange

6 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Keith Allen and the first go-round with Robert Earl, those were successful. 

That 80s team was my favorite, so borrowing from that culture would be fine by me.

Would that we could so easily erase 40 years...

16 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Arizona? The league has bent over backwards to keep that sorry franchise where they are, to the extent that they're now playing in a tiny college arena where the fans of opposing teams outnumber people cheering for the Coyotes. The team is almost literally just a dumping grounds for LTIR contracts.

And the icing on the cake is a (fairly) successful franchise in - checks notes - Winnipeg.

Aside from the "Top 10 media market" it's hard to understand why there MUST BE HOCKEY IN ARIZONA.

9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I am, because I don't give any credence to the Homer/Clarke cabal secretly puppet mastering the franchise into the gutter. 

I'm not at all saying that they're "puppet mastering" the situation. Briere and Jones are in charge. The SHAs are sitting next to the current GM and the President of Hockey Operations in the press box. They do still have offices. They are still involved.

So, if I have some well-placed, well-earned skepticism I don't think it's surprising. I'm positive about where Briere has gone so far, I'm not on the ledge about "a fourth rounder for a 35-year-old" (rental). I do question whether or not the rebuild path that they are on will get them to their declared destination - only because it hasn't worked for anyone else.

You referenced Scott (who continually said he deferred to the SHA, fwiw) trying to move the franchise forward without respect for the past.

The Flyers "culture" that needed to be "found" again - who would you say represents the Flyers' pre-loss-of-it "culture" better than the Senior Hockey Advisors? Is that what we're "trying to get back" to? #halloffame?

The question at hand is are we getting "back to" the "Flyers culture" we had for the last 25 years or are we building upon the foundation of what that culture "meant/s" - accountability, determination, grit(ty) - in pursuit of a truly new direction?

I'm saying I don't know that yet.

I guarantee you if they make the playoffs someone - coach/GM/President/player - says "anything can happen."

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

One thing for sure the 1OA and maybe another top 5 pick sure will help them build quicker...sure wish Flyers committed like that.

They've got nine 1/2 picks over the next two years and they've had ten 1/2 picks over the past two years (1-7-13-19-25).

The Flyers had three firsts (7-5-22) - one of which won't be available for at least the next two years and another decided he wouldn't play for the Flyers so they traded for a top ten pick who has played 35 games in the past two seasons - and a second.

But we've got Nick Seeler, Scott Laughton, a couple of middle range firsts, two likely 25+ firsts, and we're a bubble playoff team!

47 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

If NJ and EDM can get handouts the Flyers should eligible too

They didn't get "handouts" they were terrible.

The thing about "lotteries" is that they are "random" and don't guarantee results.

3 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

What "company line?" You evidently heard something that I haven't heard.

That the entire culture of the organization was completely destroyed by the longest serving captain in the history of the franchise and that no one else in the room had anything else to do with it.

4 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

But whatever connections, leftovers, holdouts etc there are on the current roster, blaming them for the weaknesses of the Giroux years is a farfetched proposition imho.

Blaming the players who were on the roster in leadership positions for the weaknesses of the leadership of the roster is a farfetched proposition? Couturier wore an A, you know?

Thing is, I'm not actually blaming them. The organization is, and they don't even realize they're doing it.

I'm saying that if the company line that the entire foundation of the organization's culture was completely and utterly destroyed after a decade under the leadership of the longest serving captain in the history of the franchise is correct then the idea that three guys who were sitting in leadership roles during that time might not be the best foundation upon which to build the "New Era."

Of course, that's all horsehockey.

Which is exactly why three guys who have grown up in the Flyers system are the ones being chosen to take it forward.

And that's where the question of whether or not this is a "New Era" remains open.

We're not even through Year One.

41 minutes ago, hmc687 said:

 

All I'm saying is if EDM (Hall, RNH, Yakupov, and McJesus - 4 times in 6 or 7 years) and NJ (Hischier and Hughes - 2 times in 4 years) can get all that lottery luck for 1OA...surely we can get another stab......

 

......

 

 

 

.....please?

Edmonton wasn't a bubble playoff team for 10 years.

Edmonton legit sucked for 10 years. They made the Final first year after the lockout and then didn't make the playoffs for a decade.

It's how you get multiple high picks. It's also a cautionary tale because it doesn't always work.

Likewise the Devils were 7/8 in the division for four years.

They weren't "lucky" they were terrible.

1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Wearing the same jersey is not an automatic endorsement of the captain.

So it was the longest tenured captain in the history of the franchise that oversaw the complete and total hollowing out of team culture and the other players in the room had nothing to do with it?

I'm saying I don't buy the company line on that whole situation.

1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said:

So let’s not feign surprise and read a conspiracy into the fact that Laughton (and Seeler), highly praised by the head coach and by management didn’t get traded. Briere said “fair (market) value” wasn’t enough and he stuck by it. Thassall.

I'm not feigning surprise at all.

I wasn't surprised.

I'm not surprised.

I'm saying that when you look at it through anything but "always good news for the Flyers" there is reason to be circumspect and continue to see how things develop.

Listen, I've been to GAMES this season for the first time in years. My first game back was the Owen Tippett hat trick last season. My current avatar is the sticker they give you when you sit in the Gritty section.

They're an ENJOYABLE hockey team.

Whether they're the foundation of a Cup winner remains to be seen.

3 hours ago, hmc687 said:

When's the last time Flyers had lottery luck?  JVR in place of Kane...and I dont include Patrick who played something like less than 200 career games. . .

JVR was a lottery loss as the Flyers had the worse record but didn't get first pick.

Patrick was a lottery win moving up from 12 to 2.

4 hours ago, CoachX said:

Why was 14 given that role?

14 was given that role when 28 left. They just couldn't give it to him until he was "healthy."

4 hours ago, CoachX said:

And also, why are they trying to trade the guy who is the glue that holds the team together?

They aren't.

They won't take "fair value" for him.

They are building around three (four) guys ALL of whom were at the very least passive observers of, by official accounts, the complete and total destruction of the team's fundamental culture

AND THERE'S NOBODY BETTER TO DO IT.

It's almost like they don't actually believe the first part.

It's also important, according to the coach, to "not fall in love with players" because this is a rebuild and you have to do things the right way because there aren't any shortcuts.

And we have to keep these guys because the coach likes them.

It's almost like they don't believe the first part.

I'm not at all sure where my ambivalence towards their stated position comes from.

I've been pretty clear with this organization* for over ten years.

Stop telling me what you're doing, have your actions demonstrate it.

The jury isn't even out, the cases are still being presented.

22 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I get what you're saying rad. But if I can see how done Johnson is how can that room think this is helping them in their hunt? If I played there, I'd say the same thing..."Erik Johnson? Seriously?"

 

Your last comment is bang on. 

"Cup winning vet" needs to play limited minutes for 20-odd games?

As a person who watched them absolutely torch a 1st, 2 2nds, a 7th, and two roster players on a guy who's signature achievement so far has been to be injured most of the year on a team that's actually making a playoff case...

Losing the 4th doesn't bother me. And he recouped the 5th.

I need more of a pattern to be "worried" about Briere at this point.

Although I would be happier if we had fewer shots of the New Era chumming it up with the Old Era.

18 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

I just don't think they had to spend a draft pick, lower or not, to get not much help.

They didn't.

They spent a lower round pick to send a message to the roster that they should keep working to make the playoffs despite losing Walker.

You may not agree with that aspect, either, but I don't think Briere wants to "lose the room."

Whether "the room" is something worth keeping in it's current form is a major question (it's not), but I can see where a former player wants to have the players' backs when he can.

They "shouldn't" be "trying to make the playoffs" and one could argue that Johnson fits that plan...

10 hours ago, CoachX said:

You don’t have to remind everyone. I’m all alone on This crusade. Everyone else dotes on the guy.

It's when you start to weave the conventional wisdom official organization lines together that they start to conflict with each other.

If you can't build the foundation of your culture on the back of a guy who sat by and idly watched the entire team culture get destroyed around him, who else would you choose?

There aren't any other options.

Laughton's an absolutely critical piece on a middling, bubble playoff team. Again.

I don't hate the player. He's "an NHL player" who "plays the right way" and there are likely a couple dozen of him playing in the league.

52 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I can't get that tenner into the ignition chamber.

It's been tried. 

It's a Canadian $10.

No worries.

56 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

He's well past his expiration date and providing sub-replacement level play at both ends of the ice, especially his own.

He's meant to be a message that the management hasn't abandoned the roster.

How effective he is is almost beside the point to the act of making the move after trading Walker.

This was a 4th rounder bone to the roster for playing above their heads.