Polaris922

A great player slighted by a not great man. LaFontaine was a great player to watch. I don't relate him to Lindross as you fellows do, as my issues with Lindross come from his actions upon being drafted, not who he played for. But if there are similar issues between he and Clarke, that's a shame too.

If the girl is Kate Upton, me.

He's no Kate Upton LOL

And star players didn't take cheapshots all the time like Malkin does now with impunity.

Agreed... I don't think they got as frustrated with the abuse as they do now. Not defending Malkin, as I hate it when he does that crap more than anybody. But simply put I think they were able to focus on their games more when they had someone else to worry about the dirty work.

You can hammer Letang for it all you want but your team has it's share as well. Simple fact is Letang is an all-star defenseman. I really like Michalek and Orpik too, though neither of them showed up much in the playoffs against your boys. They just didn't look themselves. Engelland played to his level which admittedly isn't top two but he's a solid #4 guy I think. I have to think Fleury was tired. He didn't look himself either, and played a career high in games which may have been the reason. Martin = huge disappointment in a Pens uniform. You guys have Grossman who is solid, but no game breaking defenseman. I don't think much of Kubina, Meszaros, or Timmonen, and Pronger is way past his day. You have Coburn though, and I like/despise him. If we had him I'd like him. He had a great series against us I thought.

@Polaris922

Without spilling a bunch of details.....something obviously was an issue when your GM and ownership anoints two players as the core leaders of the team......signs them to long, long, term deals. And then quickly removes them after seeing some of their true colors.

Yeah the move really struck me when they made it. But I wasn't sure if it was that or just trying to open up cap space for younger talent to move up and maybe attempt a different approach in free agency. Goaltending has been an issue for your team for as long as I can remember. Didn't know exactly what prompted the move!

@Polaris922

If it were not for two players on the L.A. Roster I would like them also. And I'm sure you can guess which two self centered players those are. Richards has to be the worst captain ever to put on a Flyers uniform, and his sidekick Carter doesn't deserve a cup after what he pulled in Columbus. The two in Philly were a cancer to the team and TG Holmgren had the balls to trade them away. I used to like L.A., I regularly carry players from that roster on my fantasy teams, but I can't root for them to win the cup. Not this year, it is much too soon.

Well I suppose I can respect that. I always liked Carter but obviously never heard anything about the internals from there.

I'm rooting for the Coyote's. And if the Kings win that series....I'll root for whichever team is from the East.

I too like the Coyotes... but I just like the way the Kings have handled Vancouver and was impressed with their absolute dismantling of the Blues.

The only reason I would not mind the yotes to win would be so Daymond Langkow would get his name on the cup. I always liked the style of game he played.

Gotta like Langkow for his grit and determination staying in the league. Would be a just reward for him no doubt.

I do not dislike Bettman the way many others do. I'm happy there is hockey in new markets. I want those franchises to be successful. I want to see continued growth in the NHL. Phoenix has a bunch on no-name players. I also like to root for the underdog.

I don't hate Bettman either. I think he's done a lot of good for the NHL.

The Caps-Flyers rivalry fizzled a bit when they broke up the Patrick division, but I have fond memories of when it was heated in the 80s. The worst thing about them winning would be us both having to think our teams could have beaten them in an ECF.

Is it next season yet?

Absolutely! The Pens-Caps rivalry has never really fizzled. Though the dispersion of the Patrick Division could have done that, we faced each other too much in the playoffs even after it for it to go away, and now the Ovenchicken-Crosby debates have kept it heated. I've become a fan of either western team now!

Sir, you and I are not so different after all

I mean come on... the Caps over my dead body. And the Rangers? I'm so tired of Tortorella and his theatrics. And the Devils just don't do it for me. I've hated them since they brought the sludge called trap into the league, and even though they're largely done away with it, I can't ever let it go. Hell I once rode a Devils fan bus in my Kevin Stevens Pens jersey just to get to the game cheap!

I didn't forget about Kunitz... tyler kennedy has more talent than kunitz...

I agree that Kennedy is a more creative player and skater, but something is missing in his finishing. Kunitz is a hard nosed go to the net guy like you said, but my use of him was equal to your use of Simmonds. I don't see Simmonds as anything special either, but a similar player who scores because he gets his nose bloodied.

I agree strongly that your boys outplayed mine for two of the games in the series hands down. I felt the Pens outplayed yours for two. The first two games it seemed to be more the Pens breaking open then laying off the gas and your boys having the never say die and wanting it more.

Sadly we both get to watch from the sidelines. What I felt were the best two teams going into the playoffs have let us both down. But that's why they play again next year!

I've got to pull for the Kings now.. I can't have anybody left in the east winning. I like the Coyotes too but I just don't see them stopping the Kings the way they've been playing. Go Kings!

the flyers had more skilled players

I disagree there. The Pens had better stats during the regular season with Crosby missing the majority of it and Letang out for a considerable time as well. Better winning percentage .659 vs .628, better goals for 273 vs 260, better defense 221 goals against vs 232, the same power play 19.72% vs 19.70%, a better penalty kill 87.78% vs 81.82%, and slightly better goaltending 2.36 GAA and .913 save% vs 2.48 GAA and .909% for our starting goalies respectively. I honestly think the Pens have more talent on the ice as you forgot to mention Kunitz, and we had more twenty goal scorers than your boys with every single one of ours in the lineup getting more assists as well. A better plus/minus down the line too.

Having said all of that, it just seemed to me that your Flyers came into every game hungering for a win against the Pens until the last game of the season which was admittedly meaningless. THAT was my fear going into the playoffs. The Penguins have a more talented team up front and in the defensive corps in my eyes, not just in the stats, but with player vs. player comparisons. The biggest advantage your Flyers had was youth coming up and apparently wanting it more than some of our veterans. The Flyers' ability to get the Pens playing stupid in Game 2 is what really seemed to decide the series to me. The Pens stopped playing skilled hockey and turned into goon hockey.

That being said, your boys put it to them well in the series. If the pens had focused on their game style and Bylsma had done a better job of coaching to adjust our penalty kill it would have been us versus the Devils instead. Sadly for me, the Pens realized this when they were down 3-0 already and couldn't muster enough to run the table out. You have to admit... we had most of you guys worries after game 5. Congrats on the series, in all sincerity, I just don't see where a lot of Flyers fans are claiming to be the more talented team. If anything, the lineups are very evenly matched, and I give my Pens the edge.

Giroux is an exceptional hockey player, and I like him even though he's yours. Beyond him you have Hartnell (whom I think is more a byproduct of Giroux's talent much like Robbie Brown was of Lemieux's way back when), Briere, Voracek, Simmonds, and Read. You don't really have a game changing defenseman anywhere in your lineup. THAT might be something shopped for if they give up on Pronger, who in my opinion is well past his prime anyway. Then they could use that money for a new talent. And Bryzgalov has proven to be a very overpaid goaltender.

We have Crosby, Malkin, and Neal who are major talents up front. Kunitz, Dupuis, Staal, and yes even Matt Cooke (who played at the same level as Voracek with no power play time). Our edge on defense is Letang. Our defenses are similar talent wise except for him. Fleury didn't have a good playoff at all. But head to head I would take him over Bryzgalov any day of the week. He played more games this year than any other, and I'm wondering after watching his playoff performance if it was too much to ask of him.

Anyways, I am sure I'll get a lot of rebuttal from the die hard orange and black fans here, and that's fine. I think every team talks up their own players to appear to be a super lineup no matter where they are. And i think these two teams will be seeing a LOT of each other in years to come in the playoffs. Frankly, I love the rivalry, and I think the NHL rating it the 9th best rivalry in hockey was a sham! It deserves top 5 in my book!

Just remember that every franchise says nice things about intentions to stay where they are until the moving trucks pull up. Sounds like there are a lot of people trying to keep them there though... guess we'll all find out!

They really look good. Far cry from the team that barely made it into the playoffs.

Not only do they pick the Kings, they pick the Devils to beat your Flyers in 7, I do not see that especially with Kov being out.

You were right.. it wasn't in 7. LOL

So what will the Pens do to prepare for next year? Anybody think big changes will come? Would YOU move players? I have some ideas, what do you think???

Giroux's hit on Zubrus wasn't a "cheap shot elbow". Yeah it was a shoulder to the chin but I don't believe he had an intent to injure so there's nothing cheap about it. If you watch the play he's upset about the occurrences leading up to that play and seems to me to be trying to line up a bit of a hit on Zubrus to make a statement for the game, not injure the man. He was penalized and suspended. It's over.

That's not Giroux's style. Hartnell yes... Simmonds made use of the elbow in LA a lot but seems to have abandoned it in Philly, or Coburn likes to bring the arms up too. Hell every team from mites to the NHL has players who do it and get away with it or don't get away with it. But I wouldn't be throwing stones at Giroux for it, he's not that type of player.

I disagree about Fleury being the Pens' problem. He is a very solid all-star goaltender who had a bad series. he did win two games for us though, primarily through his effort in the second and third period of game four, and a stellar performance in game 5. Yes he had a bad series, but he was better than Bryzgalov in that series, making quite a few great saves. Your team won not because your goalie played better, but because your special teams won the war.

@Polaris922

um yeah we're a little a... tender around here. not used to seeing our boys get worked because they got outworked. people are a having a hard time with it.

that said, imo giroux's hit was reckless and violated the head contact rule , and a suspension was probably warranted. if that is the standard and it applies to everyone then great, but as you have said it doesn't, and that makes our resident conspiracy theorists very .... well it gets them going to say the least.

Believe me I understand. As a Pens fan I honestly thought we would handle your Flyers in a tough series. I never expected the series to go the way it did. Everyone gets sore after a playoff loss. If they didn't, it would be a sign they didn't care.

It was "head contact" uncalled with an injured player practically seizing on ice. Sure he said it was a clean hit. No supplemental anything.

NJ and Zubrus said clean hit, Zubrus was not injured, G had no history or reputation, etc. It is very similar, except Zubrus was just fine and somehow the refs call an obscure penalty that they never call. 2 min and the next game in the press box. Sounds fair, what was I thinking.

I understand players said it was clean. But the contact to the head is clear and him throwing himself upwards into his jaw is clear too. No there was no intention. But yes it was reckless. I agree though the consistency is what burns you. Hell it burned me repeatedly all season. and I know it favored some of my players we well!

It's a paycheck like any other. I promise not to give a damn what you do in your personal life. I'm here for the hockey talk! LOL

Wear homer glasses often?? You validate my point! Yes there should've been a suspension for Malkin hitting Grossman with his shoulder. That's exactly what I'm saying. It's the same thing Giroux did. Giroux's just looks worse because he launches his shoulder up into Zubrus' jaw. Malkin did more of a skate by into the side of the jaw. It's that lack of consistency that's the problem! Try reading the posts instead of just focusing on the team I'm a fan of. Especially if you're going to try throwing insults and make yourself look like an ass.

Doesn't matter what team, what game... the punishments have been inconsistent. Some of you like to point out the non-suspensions for my Pens players repeatedly... and dives, etc etc... but there have also been suspensions for petty crap too, and bad calls for dives made by other teams as well, yours included.

No matter the issue, the consistency is what is hurting the NHL. Superstar vs grinder, or any other players. Doesn't seem to matter who is in the position, it's done without any consistency. That being said, based on the hit alone, Giroux deserved a one game for shoulder to jaw contact on a hit. Yeah the puck wasn't there anymore but so what? It's the hit that hurts. I'm not saying it was intentional or dirty, just reckless.

Everybody in the league felt you guys paid way to much for Bryzgalov. Yes he was a good goaltender for Phoenix but that was a collosal amount of money to spend. Having said that he WAS a solid goaltender in Phoenix, but honestly your defense has a lot more holes in it than Phoenix does. From my perspective, the only solid defensemen you have on your roster are Coburn and Grossman. And that's counting Meszaros. (Not that my Pens have been any better mind you). Maybe Bryzgalov's success was more a product of solid defense and the occasional spectacular save. But the Devils simply outplayed your boys this series. It's every bit the same as how I felt with my Pens. I honestly felt we had the better team, they just took winning for granted. Like they were entitled to win regardless of effort. Your Flyers looked the same to me here.

If he loves Flyers as much he says, he would play for us for 1 mil,

Not likely... when he was choosing where to play this season, where he says he loved playing means nothing. He went where the money was. You guys overpaid him the way the Pens wouldn't. But he said all the same things to our fan base before choosing your organization. I've spoken to Jagr several times through his years here in Pittsburgh and believe me, the man is as selfish as the day is long. For him it will be about money more than anything. I'd like to see him prove me wrong but I don't expect it. Even if he signs for less it'll be because somewhere, somehow, it benefits him more than any loyalty to the Flyers.

Fixed? No... frustrating as hell? Yes. Every team has it's frustrations. In every sport. I thought once you guys bounced my Pens so easily from the playoffs you were a sure bet for at least the conference finals as well. But let's face it, for every year our favorite teams win, there are a dozen or two they don't. I know it's been a long time for you guys, but your day will come. And when it does, it just makes it that much sweeter.

Jagr looks tired. The season took more of a toll on him than the old Russian superleague does I guess. I wouldn't bench him though, he still has a knack for scoring that timely goal and he seems to be providing SOME leadership and veteran presence. THAT is something he never quite did in his young days with my Pens. Sadly he learned to do it at the end of his career instead of early on.

When he started in Pittsburgh a lot of stories broke about him and his family in Czechoslovakia. Obviously the Cherepanov issue came about after he lft here. I've always had a liking for Jagr and been thankful for the time he played in the 'Burgh. It's a shame the way he is treated when he comes here now, but he did bring a little of it on himself with his attitude. I pulled him over for speeding in his Dodge Viper several times when he was younger and used to fly up and down the roads here. He was always nice to me, but he didn't exactly leave on great terms.