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Poulin20

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    You Should Be Mad

    in General Hockey

    Posted · Edited by Poulin20

    24 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

    This whole Kate Smith "controversy" makes me raise one question. If Ed Snider were alive today, does the statue stay? I say yes.

     

    I think that if Ed were alive that he would have said that the songs were very concerning and not aligning with the team values and that there would be a through investigation into the matter.  Then there would have been an actual thorough investigation into the matter and in the end I think the statue would have stayed in view of all that is now known.  There may or may not have been a plaque added referencing the songs and the team's disagreement with the lyrics with them but that would be the extent of it.  I think that would have been far and appropriate bringing them to light without completely dragging Ms. Smith through the mud and upsetting paying customers.

    • Like 3

    You Should Be Mad

    in General Hockey

    Posted

    A couple more interesting stories in the Inquirer about Kate Smith as I continue to search for more information about who she really was...

     

    Apparently she made an address in 1945 attacking racism calling it a disease that eats away at the fibers of peace and called for every church and family to commit to tolerance and understanding.    

     

    https://www.philly.com/arts/kate-smith-racist-radio-address-flyers-statue-20190425.html

     

    As it was 1945 one has to doubt she was under any pressure to do this in light of the songs in question which further suggests that she may not be the person that she was made out to be and that the Flyers completely botched this (which is par for the course with this team these days).

     

    Sam Carchidi then wrote this piece in honor of Kate Smith's 112th birthday which would have been today.

     

    https://www.philly.com/flyers/kate-smith-god-bless-america-controversy-songs-flyers-yankees-reaction-20190430.html

     

    The fact that these stories/opinions are published in the Inquirer and and not out of some sort of right leaning outlet such a Breitbart or Fox says a lot IMHO.

    You Should Be Mad

    in General Hockey

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, brelic said:

     

    This might be a part of the issue. 

     

    My perception, as an non-American, is that you (the royal you) aren't able to have those conversations on a public scale without it devolving into tribalism and divisiveness. Something appears seriously broken in the American discourse. The vitriol and hatred that are present on social media on the issue of the day are downright disturbing. I just can't believe people talk to other people that way. 

     

    Perhaps Comcast just thought rather than try and have a conversation that will almost certainly go sideways, especially as it spills onto social media (which it has anyway), they would just do what they feel is the right thing to do. I'm not passing judgment either way, but that may have been in the back of their minds on some level.

     

     

     

    I'm not sure its an America thing as much as a social media thing.  Social media is an absolute sewer which is why I avoid it like the plague.  Think of it, on social media you can be the rude, nasty and a tough keyboard warrior and nobody will hold you accountable.  Whereas in person when someone is right in front of you, you may think twice about what you say and more thoughtful in your discourse.

     

    Comcast isn't interested in doing the right thing as far as the issue is concerned.  They are only interested in doing what they think is right thing for their own interests.  That would be the path of least resistance, make the "problem" disappear and then wait it out until those who are upset forget about it or lose their desire to keep fighting and then move on with business as usual if nothing ever happened.  That is likely what will happen too unless the fans make a persistent issue of it, and they way people are today, I doubt they will (I contacted the Flyers fan club and asked if they were planning on organizing anything to protest or at least stimulate discussion and I get no response).  Its sad too because as KK said, the conversation is what's important and is what will help us grow and learn and change and understand each other better.  But Comcast isn't interested in that at all, they could care less.  They just want everyone to shut up about it and for the problem to go away.   

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    You Should Be Mad

    in General Hockey

    Posted · Edited by Poulin20

    22 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

     

    Doesn't matter if she didn't feel this way she shouldn't have sung it.

     

    I'm glad you brought this up OR as this is something I've been looking into the last few days.  What do we know about her character and how did she come to sing these songs?  It's a long post but I will share some of my findings and my feelings below if you care to read.  

     

    I haven't commented yet on this matter as I have been busy doing research the last few days as this whole episode bothers me as a Flyers fan.  We've all seen and discussed that at least one song was parody and was sung by Paul Robeson but that still doesn't address Kate's character or how she came to sing these songs.  From what I have read and heard on radio broadcasts (debating this issue) performers back in the day had little say in what they sang you were assigned songs by the record label, specifically there was someone called the Artists and Repertoire (or A&R) man who made all these decisions for you.  If you refused you could find yourself out on your rear.  One infamous instance of an A&R folly I found was is Frank Sinatra being forced to sing "Mamma Will bark" by A&R man Mitch Miller at Columbia records.  Frank did it very reluctantly and was thoroughly embarrassed by it (listen to it and you can see why); he never forgave Miller for making him sing it and years later when Miller bumped into Sinatra in Vegas and tried to say hi Frank said, "F*** you, keep walking".  This was Frank Sinatra, a big star we are talking about, yet he didn't have a say, now lets get back to Kate Smith.  The research I did indicated that Kate was a 250 lb woman who was routinely mocked for her weight in Hollywood (Jason Whitlock talks about this in the clip of him I posted earlier in the thread) she was singing whatever they gave her just to keep her job as her employers already had a perfect excuse to get rid of her is she stepped out of line.  Was this cowardly on her part?  Maybe, a bit it would have been awesome if she had refused but its easy to play Monday morning QB too; I am sure some of us would have done the same thing to keep our job.  The point is that she likely didn't have any control of what she was to sing as singers do nowadays.  Granted that doesn't make the song right but it is a mitigating circumstance for me as it helps me to better understand her position in all this.

     

    In doing further character research on her I also stumbled upon some stories that Kate would routinely have black performers on her TV show "The Kate Smith Evening Hour" most notably, singer Josephine Baker who sang in the WWII effort and then subsequently lived in France, upon her return to the US she was confronted with the realities of segregation in the US that she hadn't seen in France and hadn't experienced since she was a child.  Baker refused to perform in front of segregated audiences which was problematic for her career.  She was also accused of being a communist by gossip columnist Walter Winchell and for this was a very controversial figure whom nobody wanted to book on TV.  Yet her big break in the US, and television debut was given to her by Kate Smith on Halloween 1951.

     

    Kate's family also mentions that she was not racist however due to the risk of bias I am not considering their comments in forming my opinions.

     

    My point in all this is there may have been reasons (not yet considered or known) as to why she sang these songs. Again it doesn't make the songs right but it may explain her decisions (right or wrong).   There may also be some evidence out there giving us a small glimpse into her character suggesting that maybe she was not a rabid racist.  What I uncovered doesn't prove anything 100% but it does suggest there may be more than meets the eye to this story which is why I have a hard time with what the Flyers did.

     

    The part that upsets me the most though is the rapidity of how it all happened and how the Flyers lied and said they were looking into it and they continue to lie to me as a season ticket holder saying that they are still reviewing this "serious and sensitive matter".  There was and will be no research on their part. The decision has been made already and will not be reversed.  The worst part is the decision was not at all made out of their racial sensitivity.  This decision was made strictly for image maintenance and corporate expediency, nothing less and nothing more.

     

    Finally what does the Kate Smith phenomenon mean to me as a Flyers fan?  I don't believe in luck or good luck charms at all but for some reason their record when the song was played was incredible.  For me it was just a cool Flyers thing (an analogy would be as Americana is to the USA).   I know a lot of you had grown to detest the tradition as it was old and played out in your minds but for me though it is a part of the Flyers fabric, it is a very unique part of the Flyers story.  It was one of many factors which helped to create the feeling of family that I sensed with this team when I became a fan in 1984 and have felt to this day (until now).  I'm a fan of the other teams in town too but the Flyers had this unique way of making me like them more due to their traditions and the way they were run.  That's been torn to pieces for me now by how they handled this as for the first time ever for me I don't feel like we are family any more.  There was no debate, not among season ticket holders, not among rank and file fans, it was just over and done with.

     

    I could stomach this a lot more if we all had some discussions about our viewpoints.  If for instance legions of African American fans (whom I see quite a few of at the games nowadays) came forward and said hey despite all you say, about Kate this really really hurts me more than you could ever know and understand.  I could live with that.  I could truly accept that and move on from there but unless we go through the exercise of having these conversations and looking at the whole picture then I just put it down to corporate cowardice,  and expediency on the part of the Comcast/NBC.  Maybe that's why it doesn't feel like family anymore because the Flyers have ceased to be a family and are now just a corporate entity like the rest.

    • Like 5
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    We welcome you

    in Philadelphia Flyers

    Posted · Edited by Poulin20

    On 4/15/2019 at 10:13 AM, B21 said:

    ...to the 2019 offseason, Pittsburgh Penguins! We welcome you!

     

    (Because I'll be damned if I let any of you fuggers have the pleasure.)  :hehe::whiteflag::haha::blowingakiss:

     

    Wow the preemptive We Welcome You!  That has to be a first on this board!  That's OK as there is always the season epitaphs thread which I just fired up in honor of the dearly departed Lightning.

    • Like 2

    Shortest Books Ever Written

    in Philadelphia Flyers

    Posted · Edited by Poulin20

    On 12/12/2018 at 9:30 PM, OccamsRazor said:

    My pro bowl snub season in Seattle.

     

    By Brandon Marshall

     

     

    While we are talking about Marshalls...

     

    My time as a Flyer, by Kevin Marshall.

     

    (A super nice guy whom I met at a meet the players STH event...he was so happy to finally be up with the big club and I told him congrats on that and he was just beaming about it...before we knew it he was gone). 

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