thegx.ca Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 17 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said: This must be the fastest coaching turnover in history right? Has to be...can imagine any hiring lasting less than a month... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegx.ca Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 21 hours ago, JR Ewing said: I also don't think that everything has to be sunshine and rainbows around the arena, and there will be times where a coach will be required to have direct and pointed discussions with the players. What I don't get is why it has to be such a binary set of options, where the view is that either the coach is an asshole *or* terrible at his job. It is possible to be a good coach who also doesn't take the time to crush and demean the people who play for them. I suspect this is just an area we won't agree on, and that's cool. I don't think the players should (or need) to be mollycoddled. My Dad was a *very* strict military man who had no time for bullsh|t and didn't go out of his way to make sure that I felt great about every interaction he had with me. The thing is, every time we had a direct and pointed conversation, it was because I had either broken a rule or not lived up to the standard he knew I could achieve, and it was never because he was playing headgames with me. I have no problem with coaches who use the direct approach, such as John Tortorella. It's the difference between tough love and just being tough with people, and I respect that difference. One of them is done with the goal of making you a better person and the other is done with the goal of making one person more powerful than the other. A coach who's an authoritarian is fine by me, but not one who uses manipulation and devious tactics to gain an advantage over his players. They screw up and get an earful from the coach? Perfectly fine. The coach invites them over for lunch, makes them hand over their phone, and then kicks them out without feeding them? Manipulative. The tweener can't meet NHL standards of play and needs to be benched, sent to the minors, etc? That's more than fair. The coach approaches the same player before a game and tells them to enjoy the experience while they can because they'll never play another game in an NHL arena in their life? ... I just don't see how that makes a team better. Well you're misunderstanding me because I'm not saying being an asshole is an advantage in choosing our anything...I'm just saying it shouldn't even matter because what matters is winning.. and the whole cancel culture in Hollywood or sports to the NHL now is the issue of if coaches are nice or not and if players like the coach or not... Most recently Sutter and Babcock were fired not because of whether they won or not but mostly because of things other than that...that's my problem with it all firing or cancelling because of niceness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icechipper Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Failure of leadership. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 @thegx.ca Would you want to work for an asshat that treats you poorly or unfairly? What if the asshat was once successful but isn't anymore, and the asshat seems incapable of changing despite metrics that point to the asshat's declining effectiveness? This may not apply to you so please do not take it personally- I find a lot of the complaints about "cancel culture" tend to be made by, people filled with anger or intellectually lazy people who don't want to change their language to be respectful of another person. It costs nothing to treat another person respectfully, it shouldn't matter if being a douche has provided successful results- letting that garbage slide is how we wind up with a toxic culture. Frankly, I don't have much time that. Direct criticism, direct speech I have zero problems with. A person doesn't do a good job, how else will they learn unless they are told their current path/performance is unacceptable? The way that message is delivered does not need to be demeaning, an ad hominem attack or in Babcock's case creepy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegx.ca Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, mojo1917 said: @thegx.ca Would you want to work for an asshat that treats you poorly or unfairly? What if the asshat was once successful but isn't anymore, and the asshat seems incapable of changing despite metrics that point to the asshat's declining effectiveness? This may not apply to you so please do not take it personally- I find a lot of the complaints about "cancel culture" tend to be made by, people filled with anger or intellectually lazy people who don't want to change their language to be respectful of another person. It costs nothing to treat another person respectfully, it shouldn't matter if being a douche has provided successful results- letting that garbage slide is how we wind up with a toxic culture. Frankly, I don't have much time that. Direct criticism, direct speech I have zero problems with. A person doesn't do a good job, how else will they learn unless they are told their current path/performance is unacceptable? The way that message is delivered does not need to be demeaning, an ad hominem attack or in Babcock's case creepy. Of that matters but don't forget that some are willing to put up with assholes in order to be successful...of course some are not willing to put up with it...but that's a choice each individual has to make... As I said before personally I would choose to put up with assholes like Sutter for our team to be successful and at least give him another year to see what he can do... As for Babcock I'd choose to give him the season to see if he can do it because now we'll never know if he could've turned the team around...as for the phone issue I'd tell players to show him or don't it's up to you but don't go running and crying afterwards just because you don't want to take responsibility for your own choices... Of course everyone would rather have the nice coach that can also win...but if that's not available I rather try the asshole with proven track record... Yes it cost nothing to be nice but it also cost nothing to ignore assholes too... As for cancel culture I just calling it like I see it they rather use they energy to cancel Babcock rather than use their energy to ignore him or listen to Rand he wants...I don't agree with cancel culture because it targets people to be cancelled based on whether someone is an asshole or not... Babcock might be creepy but until he accused of some sort of crime I don't see any reason any of his actions so far deserve the kind of scrutiny he getting... Edited September 23, 2023 by thegx.ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 @thegx.ca Our views of the situation don't seem to have a whole lot of common ground. Thanks for speaking on it though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegx.ca Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 7 hours ago, mojo1917 said: @thegx.ca Our views of the situation don't seem to have a whole lot of common ground. Thanks for speaking on it though. That's ok haha at least the season finally starting we'll see how the teams do without the hard assess coaching them 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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