Blog - HF Member All Quiet on the Red Wing front

[yave1964]

Once again Ken Holland let the Wings down on deadline day. Last year, we traded for Kyle Quincey a week or so before the deadline, but never acquired the forward we desperately needed. This year, we added a college kid named Dekeyser to the blue line and again, added no scoring forward, which, again, or still we desperately needed.

The other teams in the West competing for a lower end playoff spot all made moves.

The Blues added Bouwmeester and Leopold

The Bluejackets (!) added Gaborik and Comeau

The Sharks replaced Handzus and Clowe with Raffi Torres and Scott Hannan, plus a handful of picks

The Canucks added Derek Roy. The Wild got Pominville.

The Oilers Added Jerred Smithson.

The Wings sat on their thumbs. The season is over. Get ready for next year.

Kenny Holland used the logic that he did not want to make a depth move, that he had enough depth players, and he is right. We have more third and fourth line forward and bottom pair defensemen than anyone around. But that is not a compliment, it is a sad fact.

Next year, Dan Cleary, Drew Miller Ian White, Val Filpulla and Jimmy Howard are all UFA, the odds are Miller will return, he is a nice fourth liner who can move up in a pinch. The agent for Filpulla wants 5 million a year, and with most of the potential free agent forwards already signed, and supply being down he may get some damn fool GM to offer it. White and Cleary are goners, more than likely Howard will be signed to a generous and well earned raise. Bertuzzi may be convinced to retire.

Kids like Tatar, Nyquist and Andersson all must crack the lineup. The lines next season may look like this:

Franzen Datsyuk Nyquist

Brunner Zetterberg Samuelsson

Tatar Helm Andersson

Tootoo Abdelkader Miller

Eaves and Emmerton on the bench

Defense

Kronwall Ericsson

Dekeyser Smith

Kindl Quincey

Colaiacovo and Lashoff on the bench

Yuck and double yuck.

The one thing the Wings do have is money to burn, we will be sitting pretty as the salary cap drops from 70 million down to 64 million next year. Holland has promised to be very active in the off season, among the buyout candidates for next season, the following could help the Wings:

Tuomu Ruutu solid power forward coming off hip surgery

Paul Martin may be bought out by the Pens to resign their other players

Marion Hossa a previous Wing, would be a great addition

Brian Campbell Warts and all, a puck moving blue liner who is a master of the power play

Notable UFA excluding Filpulla include Iginla, Nathan Horton, Derek Roy, Blake Wheeler and Stephen Weiss.

At least two if not three of the above need to be added to the Wings roster next season. We don't have the pieces to trade, we need to just spend money to acquire what we need. Ruutu, Martin and Weiss would make this team competitive moving forward. Holland has let the team down since the salary cap era began, it is put up or shut up time at this time. Last year he bombed at the trade deadline and we were an irrelevant early out, he promised to be active in the offseason and added tootoo and Samuelsson. Ugh. This year, he said the same thing. The Lyric from the old Who song, Wont get fooled again comes to mind. The team is boring and hard to watch at times, the fans are waiting and deserve the moves to make them relevant again before it is too late. This year is done, even if we make the playoffs the second round seems to be unrealistic.

[jammer2]

@yave1964 Hate to say it, but the Wings need to more one of or both of Zetts and Pavel. Start to rebuild, or risk holding on to them for the next 3 years and get an Iginla return, instead of elite prospects and lottery picks.

[WingNut722]

I think it's common knowledge in the front office that the Wings did not have a real good shot at the Cup this year, so Ken Holland was not going to shop for a high-priced rental to finish out the season. That, and it seems they'll be in rebuilding mode anyway. They tried for Parise and lost. They tried for Suter and lost. They tried for Iginla and lost. Having any one of those guys would not provide any good chances of winning it all (unless you had all three). I think the biggest concern is to make the playoffs (which they can do with the squad that they have), do the best they can, and start over next season. The salary cap will be reduced, and team will take advantage of their one buyout. When that happens, the Red Wings will be right there with open arms and a pile of money.

[yave1964]

I think it's common knowledge in the front office that the Wings did not have a real good shot at the Cup this year, so Ken Holland was not going to shop for a high-priced rental to finish out the season. That, and it seems they'll be in rebuilding mode anyway. They tried for Parise and lost. They tried for Suter and lost. They tried for Iginla and lost. Having any one of those guys would not provide any good chances of winning it all (unless you had all three). I think the biggest concern is to make the playoffs (which they can do with the squad that they have), do the best they can, and start over next season. The salary cap will be reduced, and team will take advantage of their one buyout. When that happens, the Red Wings will be right there with open arms and a pile of money.

WINGNUT!!!!!! WHERE YOU BEEN!!

Good to see you posting in here again.

The problem with Ken Holland is nobody wants his money anymore. We used to get any free agent we wanted, Hull, Luc, Hasek, EVERYONE wanted to be a Wing.

The salary cap era has severely handcuffed the Wings more than any other team. Pizza man has shown he is wiling to lay out the dough (Bad pun intended) but if guys like Parise and Suter use the Wings and Flyers to drive up the price to go to the team they wanted to go to in the first place, what do you do?

I believe it is time for Jim Nill to take the reigns. I believe 2008 and 2009 are a fluke, that the Wings will never win again with Holland in charge. We need a fresh approach, the one we are using is not working.

On a side note the signing of Jimmy Howard for 6 years at 5.3 million a year was necessary. Howard has been the best bargain in the game for the last three seasons, bar none. 2.25 million a year for 35 wins three years in a row is insanely low.

5 Million is likely upper end of his value, but by the end of the contract he will be a bargain again. Good signing. Jimmy always makes me feel that he loves the game, and would almost play for free. You never heard him whining about the low contract he has been playing under, and while five million a year is high, he would have likely commanded higher in July on the free agent market.

[SpikeDDS]

The problem with Ken Holland is nobody wants his money anymore. We used to get any free agent we wanted, Hull, Luc, Hasek, EVERYONE wanted to be a Wing.

The salary cap era has severely handcuffed the Wings more than any other team. Pizza man has shown he is wiling to lay out the dough (Bad pun intended) but if guys like Parise and Suter use the Wings and Flyers to drive up the price to go to the team they wanted to go to in the first place, what do you do?

I don't blame Holland for Parise and Suter. For one of them, Minnesota is home. That is hard to compete with unless you are throwing away money. (See also the DeKuyser signing. Why with the Wings? Home. This will play large into Pavel possibly leaving after next season also, mark my words.) There is a time for overbuying, but the time is when you are CLOSE to a Cup but need a bit more--one more big player that will get you there. THAT'S when you overspend. And that STILL guarantees you nothing (see Hossa 2009). We were not there last post-season and are NOT there now.

Along with you and other sensible people, we have no shot at the Cup this year. We will be doing well to get to the second round. We are just not consistent enough nor deep enough this year, and I really didn't think that any of the available players at the deadline were enough to make us a potential to get to or through the 3rd round. We still weren't going to be serious Cup contenders.

I also don't blame them for no Iginla, nor do I blame Iginla himself for eliminating the Wings from contention. If we got him, we would still not be serious Cup contenders in the next couple of years, so what's the point?

The remainder of this season and the beginning of the next should be dedicated to assessing our young talent and developing transition strategy. We DO need to start building a new team. I don't know if I'm ready to part with Pav or Z to do it as has been suggested, but it's not like we've got a lot of player capital to offer otherwise UNLESS we can show the potential of some of our young talent. My issue is that Holland needs to stop dragging his feet on staying with the old guard too long and commit to development. We were committed to building our team via spending before the cap, because we could. We can't do that with the cap, so we need to build it with development and then selective spending, and that means change. Change hurts, but without it, you die. If nothing major changes before next year's trade deadline, THEN I'll be all over Holland, but it's still too soon to do that now, other than calling for him to BEGIN the process, and so far, I think they are not moving fast enough. In some ways, thank goodness for the injuries we've had, because I think it would have been worse/slower without them this year. We need more talent, and to get it we need to sell OPPORTUNITY. That's hard to do when you still se Franzen on the first line every night despite his numbers. It's hard to do when Samuelsson is deemed the missing puzzle piece. Quincey. Filppula. These guys all may have the potential to be good/great players, but they rarely are great, yet they continue to start and not at the bottom of the lines either. They never see the bench or the press box, and that means they own the spot in the lineup. No opportunity.

Babcock needs to start putting pain behind the words he says: If you play when you get your shot you get more playing time, and when you don't keep playing, you stop playing. They need to make this stuff hurt. I was somewhat optimistic when they sat Ian White, thinking they may be starting to do this get this team going, but he was the only one. They didn't continue it with anyone else big.

If they don't commit to development and transition within the next year, then I start calling for heads. Not yet, but if there are no major changes, they will be difficult to defend at that point.

[yave1964]

Spike,

Great post. Glad your back in here too.

My problem with Holland is for two years we have watched talent retire or move on and replaced silk purses with sows ears, before the season started he said that the Wings might not have enough to keep the playoff streak going.

Spike, that is what you or I have a right to say, not the general manager. His job, plain and simple is to make sure we are in, not warn that he didn't do his job for two years running and has left the team high and dry and not make deadline moves two seasons in a row.

Morrow went cheap. A 2nd rounder and a marginal prospect. He would be a short term fix, but with our pathetic offense he would sure look good on the second line right now. Bouwmeester has baggage galore, a pick and a bag of beads landed him within our own division. Holland did NOTHING to improve the team. Nothing.

It is a poor crop of free agents this summer, a bunch of old retreads, not counting the buyouts who mostly will have their own baggage. Our prospects are nhl caliber, mostly B or C quality, I don't see the next top pair blueliner or the replacement for Datsyuk or Zetterberg in the system. I really see the end of the road for Holland, Nill is an organizational man who has turned down shots elsewhere to stay loyal to the Wings, IMHO I feel he deserves a chance to bring fresh insight to the team.

[WingNut722]

@yave1964 @SpikeDDS

Good afternoon, Gentlemen. Sorry for the extended absence, but life demands....

The prospects in the system are good enough to grow with. Additionally, with the recent additions of Kirk Maltby, Nick Lidstrom and Chris Osgood to the scouting/development department, I don't have any worry that Detroit will continue to draft well for the next several years. I have not lost any faith in Ken Holland.

Yave, you contradicted your own argument in your last post. You claimed Holland did nothing to improve the team at the trade deadline this year, but then said there are no decent free agents for summer picking. If there's no one decent, why should Holland overpay them for the last three weeks of the regular season and one round (ostensibly) of the playoffs. I think the next crop is there. Pav and Z are a bit like Lidstrom...irreplaceable, pound for pound. There are very few forwards like them and as capable as them in the NHL today. One signed a ridiculous contract with Minnesota this past summer, another couple have become the marquis faces of the Chicago Blackhawks. I believe their replacements are currently wearing the Griffins' red and blue. I am speaking of one Thomas Tatar, and Gustav Nyquist. With additional ice team in the big leagues, players like Joaquim Andersson will also improve much in the same way that Abdelkader and Helm have.

What Holland should be (and I what I believe he is doing) is searching for a "transitional" player. A crafty veteran, either forward or defense, who can bridge the gap between the established, but aging players, and the next generation. My guess is it will be defense. Ian White is gone after this season. Signing DeKeyser sealed his fate, so figure Holland to be looking hard at the blueliners again this summer. I also anticipate Todd Bertuzzi to be thinking about retirement. He's too bull-headed to do it now, but my guess is after playing his next "full" season.

I should just put it on my profile headline already, but Franzen is worth his weight in broken doorknobs. It's a bad position to try and buy him out. If they do, there will be no money left in the bank for decent replacement, so we're stuck with him.

In the end, though, I will agree with Spike, and say if nothing significant happens by the trade deadline next season, I (and likely Mr. Pizza) will become concerned about Holland's methods.

[yave1964]

Wingnut,

Actually you contradicted yourself by saying that Holland is doing fine, then saying we need transition players to get us through. We could have for minimal, picks and lower end prospects, added a Bouwmeester and/or a Pominville who would have been that bridge, that transition to get us through. That is my complaint with Holland, for two years he has twiddled his thumbs while Rome burned and did nothing while everyone around us added a piece or two.

I love Nyquist and Tatar as prospects, for the life of me I don't know what Tatar did that got him sent back down. Bad breath or BO apparently, lol it was not his play, he drove the net every time he crossed the blue line, I see Nyquist as a solid second liner, Tatar, borderline second line/ solid third.

But again, Pominville and Bouwmeester may not have gotten us over the top, but they sure, as transition players would have given us a better chance for little return. Holland let us down. Again.

[WingNut722]

@yave1964

Clarification - Holland is doing fine, but looking for a transitional player appears to be his current assignment.

Yes, we could have had Bouwmeester and/or Pominville (and who's to say we he didn't present an offer), but the name and numbers aren't always the whole story. Those two guys are good players...with the team they're currently (or up until just recently) representing. But their skill and style has to mesh with Detroit's, otherwise they're useless. Holland weighs very heavily the input of Mike Babcock, and if Babcock isn't convinced they'll help, Holland won't even pick up the phone. League-wide, Ken Holland, and Mike Babcock are considered, year after year, some of the best in the business at their jobs. It seems unlikely that both of them would drop off in their collective intellects at this particular point.

As for Tatar, I think he was just rotated back to Grand Rapids in order to get Nyquist some playing time. I think Holland is simply trying to develop the younger players a bit quicker than normal (Hell, even Riley Sheahan saw some ice time recently). They'll be at the core of the "new" Red Wings in the next few years. Particularly if the rumors about Datsyuk are true. Danny Cleary seems to be losing steam, and Todd Bertuzzi is on his way out.

[SpikeDDS]

@yave1964

As for Tatar, I think he was just rotated back to Grand Rapids in order to get Nyquist some playing time. I think Holland is simply trying to develop the younger players a bit quicker than normal (Hell, even Riley Sheahan saw some ice time recently). They'll be at the core of the "new" Red Wings in the next few years. Particularly if the rumors about Datsyuk are true. Danny Cleary seems to be losing steam, and Todd Bertuzzi is on his way out.

See, and this is where I start saying--particularly with Cleary and Fil--give the young guys the opportunity and sit these guys down for a game. Let's see what the young kids can do, and let's see how the vets respond when they realize that they don't like not playing. I'm concerned that the RW are ceasing to be known as a franchise which doesn't tolerate mediocrity. Babs is known around the league as being a tough coach, but lately, I've seen less of it, and I think he needs to kick some butts a bit. Let the boys know we expect total effort and--if we have judged talent correctly--talent plus total effort should = positive results. So if we don't see it, one of two things should be done. If the problem is effort, sit 'em. If the problem isn't effort, but rather talent, then trade 'em. Time to look at each man and evaluate what the problem is.

I realize it's not quite as simple as that, and that's why for a while, I give them a pass, but eventually an atmosphere of mediocrity starts to develop, and that must be nipped in the bud.

Edited April 17, 2013 by SpikeDDS