Modern Equivalents to Former Star Players

[WordsOfWisdom]

I figured this might be interesting...  Basically the name of the game is to name a star from a previous era and then name who you think is their closest equivalent star player today. 

 

I started this off in another thread, but I'll put it here. 

 

Gordie Howe ---->  Mark Messier (80's) ----> Eric Lindros ? (90's) ----> ??? Jonathan Toews (now) ??? 

 

(That's going to draw heat, I just know it...aaaah!) 

 

Gordie Howe ----> Wayne Gretzky (80's) ----> Mario Lemieux (90's) ----> Sidney Crosby (now) 

 

 

 

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

Here's another:

 

Pavel Bure (90's) ----> Alex Ovechkin (today)

[JR Ewing]

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

I figured this might be interesting...  Basically the name of the game is to name a star from a previous era and then name who you think is their closest equivalent star player today. 

 

I started this off in another thread, but I'll put it here. 

 

Gordie Howe ---->  Mark Messier (80's) ----> Eric Lindros ? (90's) ----> ??? Jonathan Toews (now) ???

 

Going with the dominant power forward thing, I'd fill it in with my own personal picks up to your Howe selection:

 

Newsy Lalonde (10s) --> Nels Stewart (20s) --> Charlie Conacher (30s) --> Bryan Hextall (40s) --> Gordie Howe (50s & 60s) -->

[WordsOfWisdom]

23 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Going with the dominant power forward thing, I'd fill it in with my own personal picks up to your Howe selection:

 

Newsy Lalonde (10s) --> Nels Stewart (20s) --> Charlie Conacher (30s) --> Bryan Hextall (40s) --> Gordie Howe (50s & 60s) -->

 

Wow. I certainly can't bring things back that far. Good stuff!   

 

[JR Ewing]

On 2016-08-18 at 6:23 PM, WordsOfWisdom said:

Here's another:

 

Pavel Bure (90's) ----> Alex Ovechkin (today)

 

 

I'd say we're talking about pure snipers here; guys who were terrific goal scorers, but didn't necessarily have the same level of playmaking ability. Biscuit in the basket types, eh?

 

Newsy Lalonde (10s) --> Babe Dye (20s) --> Charlie Conacher (30s) --> Rocket Richard (40s & 50s) --> Bobby Hull (60s) --> Rick Martin (70s) --> Mike Bossy (80s)

[ScottM]

On 8/19/2016 at 11:58 PM, JR Ewing said:

I'd say we're talking about pure snipers here; guys who were terrific goal scorers, but didn't necessarily have the same level of playmaking ability. Biscuit in the basket types, eh?

 

Newsy Lalonde (10s) --> Babe Dye (20s) --> Charlie Conacher (30s) --> Rocket Richard (40s & 50s) --> Bobby Hull (60s) --> Rick Martin (70s) --> Mike Bossy (80s)

 

I'd throw Joe Malone's name into the hat for the 10s as well. I think it's a pretty neck and neck between the two of them.

 

On 8/18/2016 at 8:18 PM, WordsOfWisdom said:

Gordie Howe ----> Wayne Gretzky (80's) ----> Mario Lemieux (90's) ----> Sidney Crosby (now)

 

I'm not entirely sure where this one is going. The closest guess I can come up with is being a totally dominant player. If so, you'd have to throw in Bobby Orr in the 70s, and at the risk of upsetting our resident Pens fans, I don't really think Crosby fits there so well. If you want to go back before Howe, there were stretches during the late 20s to early 30s that Howie Morenz was dominant, and in the mid to late 30s that Eddie Shore was.

[JR Ewing]

1 hour ago, ScottM said:

 

I'd throw Joe Malone's name into the hat for the 10s as well. I think it's a pretty neck and neck between the two of them.

 

Frankly, I think I would have been better off having said Malone, because he was a pure sniper, and Lalonde had more sides of his game. Far more physically dominant, with greater edge to his game, and was considered to generally be the best player in the NHA/NHL at the time.

 

Quote

 

I'm not entirely sure where this one is going. The closest guess I can come up with is being a totally dominant player. If so, you'd have to throw in Bobby Orr in the 70s, and at the risk of upsetting our resident Pens fans, I don't really think Crosby fits there so well. If you want to go back before Howe, there were stretches during the late 20s to early 30s that Howie Morenz was dominant, and in the mid to late 30s that Eddie Shore was.

 

Crosby: one thing which has happened is that, over time as the quality of hockey has steadily improved, great players don't dominate their competitors as much as previous generations. We have a situation now, where you don't typically see one guy leading the league year after year. Anyway. I think your argument is fair enough: Alex Ovechkin has won 3 Harts to Sindey's pair, even though most consider Crosby to be the superior player.

 

My take on the WoW's list:

 

Russell Bowie -> Cyclone Taylor/Newsy Lalonde -> Howie Morenz -> Eddie Shore -> Rocket Richard -> Gordie Howe -> Bobby Orr -> Wayne Gretzky -> Mario Lemieux -> Sidney Crosby

 

[ScottM]

54 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

Crosby: one thing which has happened is that, over time as the quality of hockey has steadily improved, great players don't dominate their competitors as much as previous generations. We have a situation now, where you don't typically see one guy leading the league year after year. Anyway. I think your argument is fair enough: Alex Ovechkin has won 3 Harts to Sindey's pair, even though most consider Crosby to be the superior player.

 

My take on the WoW's list:

 

Russell Bowie -> Cyclone Taylor/Newsy Lalonde -> Howie Morenz -> Eddie Shore -> Rocket Richard -> Gordie Howe -> Bobby Orr -> Wayne Gretzky -> Mario Lemieux -> Sidney Crosby

 

I'm going to get onto a soapbox for a moment although it's definitely not directed at either of you. I'm also not intending to turn this into a Sid vs Ovi debate. I might start another thread later to get into a certain aspect of that discussion though. Anyway, one of the things that bugs me to no end is when people take a situation in which you have two guys that are pretty close and then claim that one is so obviously superior to the other. I feel like that's what a lot of people do with Crosby and Ovechkin. I don't think there's any question that Crosby is the more complete player, Ovi is one of the most elite goalscorers the game has ever seen. If you're going to specialize in one thing in particular and be in the discussion with the all-time greats, having it be the one thing that counts for the most is significant.

 

I found this article rather interesting: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/edge-close-look-history-crosby-vs-ovechkin/ I think there's room for debate on who outdid who in a couple of seasons, but when you take the year by year comparison, It shows that those two guys are awfully close. I think it's extremely hard to say that there's a clear cut "winner" between the two. Tbh, I can't help but wonder if the North America vs Russia thing plays into it. Let's be honest, there's a lot of animosity between the US/Canada and the USSR/Russia that has built up over the years, and it's strongly felt in hockey. While I'm on that, why not throw another Russian monkey wrench into the mix? What about Malkin? I think we'd all agree that he's a bit behind the other two overall, but if you take a close look at him when he's really clicking, he can reach their level.

 

Anyway, what's my point? It's that it's all garbled up now. The one change I'd make to the list you gave, @JR Ewing, is that I think you'd have to put Crosby and Ovechkin together like you did with Taylor and Lalonde. They're too tightly bunched to separate. I also think you're right that we've reached an era in which you can't claim that any one player (or even two) is completely dominant, as Malkin demonstrates. I've had the conception for some time now that the current era lacks the level of all-time greatness that most eras in the past have had. I think one reason for that is that until you get to the very end of a guy's career, it's hard to measure a guy, and that can make him appear a little further down than he might otherwise. Jagr is one guy that I think we can get a decent picture of since he's near the end. We have a pretty good idea where he's going to fall. But the fact that the players are bunched more closely might be creating a myth that the top players aren't as high since they aren't able to set themselves apart as well. With Crosby and Ovechkin, one of them might end up winning clearly, but we're nowhere near that at the moment. Time will have to tell.

 

Anyway, rant over. Lol

[WordsOfWisdom]

19 hours ago, ScottM said:

I'm not entirely sure where this one is going. The closest guess I can come up with is being a totally dominant player. If so, you'd have to throw in Bobby Orr in the 70s, and at the risk of upsetting our resident Pens fans, I don't really think Crosby fits there so well. If you want to go back before Howe, there were stretches during the late 20s to early 30s that Howie Morenz was dominant, and in the mid to late 30s that Eddie Shore was.

 

Pure scoring and play-making ability. A human points machine.  

 

938 PTS in only 707 GP. 

 

5 seasons of 100+ points.

 

Who gets more points than Crosby?  

[WordsOfWisdom]

On 8/20/2016 at 0:58 AM, JR Ewing said:

 

 

I'd say we're talking about pure snipers here; guys who were terrific goal scorers, but didn't necessarily have the same level of playmaking ability. Biscuit in the basket types, eh?

 

Newsy Lalonde (10s) --> Babe Dye (20s) --> Charlie Conacher (30s) --> Rocket Richard (40s & 50s) --> Bobby Hull (60s) --> Rick Martin (70s) --> Mike Bossy (80s)

 

I'd also add in the similar play styles between Bure and Ovechkin. Lots of flash. Lots of dash.  

 

[ScottM]

4 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Pure scoring and play-making ability. A human points machine.  

 

938 PTS in only 707 GP. 

 

5 seasons of 100+ points.

 

Who gets more points than Crosby?  

 

Okay, I missed where you were going with that. Yeah, when you look at the ppg stat in this era, he wins. I was thinking more along the lines of all-around dominance, but yeah, Crosby is the top point guy right now, no question.

 

Edit: Btw, this is a pretty cool topic idea. I might add a list or two later if you don't mind.

[WordsOfWisdom]

11 hours ago, ScottM said:

 

Okay, I missed where you were going with that. Yeah, when you look at the ppg stat in this era, he wins. I was thinking more along the lines of all-around dominance, but yeah, Crosby is the top point guy right now, no question.

 

Edit: Btw, this is a pretty cool topic idea. I might add a list or two later if you don't mind.

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, feel free to add new lists. That's the idea. They don't have to stretch from the beginning of time until today, even just two eras is fine. 

 

Here's another example:

 

Bobby Orr (70s) ---->  Paul Coffey (80s) ----> Brian Leetch (90s) ----> Erik Karlsson (now)???