WordsOfWisdom

Well worth a view:

A complete history of the Leafs stingy ownership under Ballard, and all the terrible trades this franchise has made over the decades.

When you add it all up, it's truly amazing the Leafs are hockey's richest franchise. Given that the salary cap came in starting in 2005 and Harold Ballard ran the team up until about 1990, the Leafs got to enjoy a period of about ~15 years where they actually used their tremendous wealth to buy star players. Overall however, that simply isn't the case. Under Ballard, the Leafs acted like an impoverished organization that never spent money on anything. Today, the cap prevents the Leafs from going out and adding salary to put the existing roster over the top.

Not surprisingly, the period of time from 1990 to 2005 marked the greatest and most successful Leafs years since the championship years of the 1960's.  

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I'll only agree completely after we tank and get Shane Wright in 22 and then Connor Bedard in 23.

You're going to make the playoffs next year. That's your pattern. You won't be in the draft lottery at all.

Might as well bite the bullet and support this change for the long term integrity of the game.

Plus, the years you do miss the playoffs, your team usually finishes 9th, so you're right there. It sets up nicely for you. I've never seen the Flyers bottom out, ever.

7 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I agree, tanking is pathetic.

 

The Leafs should forfeit Matthews.

You have to work with what is.  I remember you complaining when the Leafs tanked to get Matthews, but they did things by the book and got rewarded. Let's see the Penguins forfeit Crosby and all those Stanley Cups lol. 

Can we admit that tanking for a #1 pick leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth?  The only team happy is the winner and everyone else feels cheated.

All the NHL has to do is any one of the following and the word "tanking" vanishes from the NHL dictionary:

• Equal odds for all teams
• Equal odds for all non-playoff teams, 0% to everyone else
• Highest odds for #9 and everyone else gets less

That's it. No magic required. Just common sense.   

On 6/3/2021 at 10:11 AM, flyercanuck said:

The Sabres have surpassed the Oilers as the most inept franchise in the league. Eichel/Dahlin/Ristoleinen/Mittlestadt/Nylander/Reinhart/Cozens/Quinn...that's a whole lot of top ten picks to STILL be picking 1st overall. 

 

 Ya, Philly sucks. Whatever is way worse than sucks is where the Sabres are parked.

I think the NHL needs to change the draft lottery entirely. This whole concept of forcing teams to bottom out (tank) in order to win this lottery is ridiculous. Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at something from a distance to see just how terrible it is. The NHL's draft lottery is a terrible concept, and the whole system is insane.

Teams should be rewarded for WINNING (or at least TRYING to win), not losing.  The 1st overall draft pick should go to the team that finishes 9th in their conference. The team that just BARELY missed the playoffs. Why? Because that helps them build into a playoff team. It rewards their effort. It makes teams TRY all the way to the finish. 

There will be people who say "but then the last place team will never improve". Sure they will. Same way they always have: Smart drafting, smart free agent signings, and smart trades. Being force-fed #1 picks into a sh_t franchise sure isn't any guarantee of success either as the Oilers and Sabres have proven. It's MANAGEMENT that determines success, not #1 picks.

16 hours ago, Brewin Flames said:

Looked like a clean hit...yet very stupid and not needed....Charging at best (imo) suspension coming.

 

 

That's a 100% clean hit. Folks, if you don't like hitting then you're watching the WRONG sport.

Hockey is a CONTACT sport like FOOTBALL. Players get hit.  If THIS gets banned, the NHL goes bye bye.

It's not charging. It's not a hit to the head. Every hit is by definition "predatory" in the sense that you MEANT to hit someone.

Don Cherry would be saying "keep your head up".  We've created a league where players think they can skate around without looking and never fear contact. That's the NHL since 2005 and it's not right. If you make stupid plays and skate with your head down, players are allowed to hit you, and it'll be a BIG hit if you're not looking. Evans is 100% at fault for making a stupid play and not looking.

The Tavares injury 5 minutes into game 1 of the playoffs was like a WORSE VERSION of this:

The infamous (ie: footage burned and buried by MLSE) Doug Gilmour injury during his 1st game back as a Leaf:

(The addition of Gilmour was seen as a depth move to put the Leafs over the top for a long playoff run that season.)

20 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Yeah, that's valid.  Certainly.

 

I do think it was compounded by the "oh no, here we go again" fear gripping this team in the absence of having someone in the room to calm them because they've already done it. 

I don't know how the team can change its losing culture other than to acquire proven winners as you mentioned.

Wouldn't hurt to get some GOOD luck for a change too. The Tavares injury reminded me of the Doug Gilmour injury back in 2002 or whenever it was. 

Gilmour made his return to the Leafs sometime around 2002 as a veteran/leader/depth guy to help put the team over the top. It was like a "good karma, feel-good acquisition" type of thing around the trade deadline. The move that would put the Leafs over the top. Well sure enough, Gilmour gets injured (blowing out his knee I think) in his FIRST game back and that was the end of his career. He played his final NHL game in a Leafs uniform and it wasn't even a full game.  Look at Gilmour's stats on Hockey Reference.com.

20 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I imagine as time passes, cooler heads prevail and the response is sensible and calculated and not knee-jerk destruction of a team building for good things.

Agreed. But I think management will acknowledge that they can't win with so much cap space invested in forwards. They're going to have to spend more on defencemen and possibly upgrade in goal to replace Andersen. 

20 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

The worst part about this whole thing is that I might accidentally become a Leafs' fan just out of spite!

23 hours ago, ruxpin said:

You know, this is a great excuse that we all delude ourselves with.   You're not alone on this, and I'm certainly not above it.

But this simply doesn't fly and neither does the Muzzin excuse.   Here's why:

Without both players, they built up a 3 to 1 lead.   Again, they built up that lead without them.

That's why I used the term "on borrowed time".  It's like the Titanic immediately after it hit the iceberg. Yes, it's still above the water. Yes, it still looks undamaged to the people on board. Yes, it can probably drift a little further along in the water. But it's still sinking. 

Losing your #2 center (or #1-B center) means that the opposition can focus exclusively on Matthews and wear him down. The situation would have been even worse against the Jets, who have tremendous depth. 

Given the parity that exists in the NHL today, the loss of ONE key player is enough to turn a series. Maybe in those games where Matthews didn't score, Tavares would have had a big night. The focus would have been off Matthews and Marner because someone else would have been contributing. Nylander did his part. If Tavares was there, I'm sure he would have been a big factor as well, and that would have been enough to defeat Habs. Just having Nylander and Tavares going would have carried the Leafs into round 2. Then maybe Nylander and Tavares cool off and Matthews and Marner get going against the Jets. That's what you need to win in the playoffs. You need so many stars that they can't all go silent at the same time.

23 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Simmonds, for example, wasn't a help not [just] because he's old and no longer as effective.   It's because he's won nowhere he's been.   He cannot be that voice because he has his own history of playing for teams that folded in the face of adversity. 

And that's the other issue. Instead of grabbing veteran leaders who have never won, the Leafs need veteran guys who have. Well said.

20 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I would do Myers and JVR for Nylander....both teams need a shake up....i'll pack their bags. 

 

Meet you halfway.......

I think it's inevitable that Toronto is going to move out two of the following players:

• Matthews
• Marner
• Tavares
• Nylander

When cap issues like this occur, the players that get moved are the second line guys, not the #1 or #2 guys. I think Matthews and Marner are safe. One of those two will be the captain next season. Toronto will lose Tavares and Nylander in an effort to improve defensively and get tougher. 

Matthews and Marner will get split up. Marner will be converted to a center. That'll be your 1A and 1B lines in Toronto: built just like the Penguins. Two elite centers and then just "Phil" garbage in around them. 

12 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Maybe we can revisit the Willy Nylander for Phil Myers trade suggestions....

LOL. 

It was Kapanen for Myers lol.  For Nylander, the price was Provorov I believe, or Myers + JVR.  (I forget now.) 

13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

That and like by beloved Flyers your stars failed to perform when the stage was at it's biggest.

Quote

In the Leafs case well you can flip your assets for pieces you need.

 

In fact the Leafs best bet would be to go hard after Seth Jones who many Flyer fans covet....but if you were to serve up a Marner for Jones trade well it would be hard to trump that.

Marner will have seen his stock drop somewhat after this recent playoff performance. It would be a bad time to trade him.

This playoffs got off to a rotten start with the injury to Tavares. When you lose your captain 5 minutes into game 1 with a playoff-ending injury, that's a BAD OMEN.  You just know your team is on borrowed time at that point. Even if the Leafs had won, Tavares wasn't coming back for the Jets series. The Leafs would have eventually been worn down and exposed without secondary scoring.

On 5/31/2021 at 10:00 PM, Smokeader said:

Time for the Leaf ownership to clean house.  If the players cannot finish a series being up 3-1, it is time for changes. Since the players are pretty much safe, that means management has to take the hit.  If you cannot motivate your players to beat your longest standing historical rival for just one more game to close out the series, then management needs to become folks who can do that.

I'd be in favour of replacing Dubas. He hasn't made any significant positive moves on this team besides the no-brainer moves of drafting the #1 overall pick when the opportunity arose. 

The Leafs have CLEAR weaknesses, even as the 1st place team in the North division. We need a GM who will stop denying they exist and fix them. 

12 hours ago, Alexandron said:

How come without fans in attendance when in US arenas we could see up to 10,000.00 - 12,000.00 fans? What is the difference?

They didn't allow fans into the arenas in Canada, so the game feels "dead" when you watch it. It's like watching a practice. There's no "game atmosphere". 

9 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Maybe Matthews was content with his pro-rated 50 goal performance.

It was actually 60.   

9 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Wow. Game 6 of the #habs-#leafs series on Saturday was Sportsnet's most-watched Stanley Cup Playoff game ever, drawing an average audience of 4.7 million. It reached 10.2-million Canadians overall.

But not the same atmosphere without fans in attendance and without all the sports bars and patios open.  Normally I'd walk downtown and see a sea of blue and white jerseys, sports bars packed, and cars with Leafs flags out the window. Couldn't have ANY of that this time around. 

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Maybe it is time to move out some of this core of players. It could help retool quickly.

 

Maybe they have been jinxed by all the reporters.

 

 

Collusion from the media...

 

First time the Leafs have gone into a playoff series as the favourite to win.  To me, THAT is probably the most disappointing thing of all. This time, expectations were elevated. This was a 1st place team. You can say they were the best of a mediocre bunch, but they were still the best. They should have beat Montreal. However, as I mentioned in my other post, the Leafs did very little to improve the team during the season. They made stupid acquisitions while Montreal basically plugged every hole in their roster and had a "let's go for it" attitude. 

Montreal (unlike Toronto) identified their weaknesses, solved them, and moved forward.  The Leafs just keep rolling out the same flawed roster and everyone knows how to defeat them come playoff time. The Leafs are a puzzle that has been solved. 

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

 The crowds and the atmosphere and bars and patios haven't helped the Leafs win a playoff round since the salary cap stopped them from buying wins. The league put them in the easiest division away from the big bad Bruins. They drew a team I'd be quite comfortable with the Flyers playing in the playoffs....and they suck! 

 

 ONE goal from Marner/Matthews combined in 7 games. At over $22 million (yes I get they're not paid during playoffs). That's a big reason why they lost. Not covid.

I agree. Marner and Matthews are starting to earn the reputation of being regular season guys only. However, since they already got top dollar contracts, I guess there's no incentive for them to ever do anything in the playoffs. The team was quick to pay them max money based on regular season performance. Maybe they should have placed a premium on playoff performance. 

My point is that nobody was really invested in this series... due to covid and our third lockdown. When people are more focused on paying bills, keeping their small business afloat, figuring out how to educate their kids through Zoom chats, or just staying alive (no Bee Gees joke please lol), it's hard to get into an NHL playoff series with anyone.  Fans weren't "focused" on this like they normally would have been if the world was back to normal.

I imagine this is the last time we'll ever see highlights of the 2021 season. The footage will be burned/deleted/lost/forgotten. 

Consider: The Art Ross and Rocket Richard trophy winners are both gone in round 1.

2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

edit again: WOW....as a long-time Flyers' fan I've seen some bad beats but oh my Toronto! Up 3-1 and you can't squeeze out one more game...Unreal.

Blowing 3-goal leads. Blowing 3-1 series leads. You name it, the Leafs can blow it!  

Speaking of blowing.... the ref blew a call that was clearly holding/interference on a Leafs player only to call a penalty on Engvall (I think) shortly thereafter. That cost the Leafs a goal. Weak goaltending cost the Leafs the first goal. 

I guess the take away from this is that Montreal won this series through mid-season trades.  While the Leafs were busy acquiring Rittich (who played no role with Toronto), the Habs were busy getting guys like Corey Perry. 

All in all, it's not the worst thing to lose this season. Nobody had to watch it. Nobody could have celebrated it had we won.  Ontario is STILL in covid lockdown. It isn't the same when you don't see that crowd of 20,000 people, the bars and patios overflowing with Leafs fans watching the game, etc. There was no real playoff atmosphere surrounding this series. Accordingly, it'll be like it never happened. 

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

 

Goaltending has been an issue but in the last 10 years the Flyers have basically sucked it in the playoffs.  The exception was for that miraculous run 2010. And thanks to Leaky Leighton and high and wide Carter I still have nightmares about that SCF.

 

Not exactly deep playoff runs as you might expect ......

 

 

That's a remarkable oscillating pattern you've got going. Very rare indeed. 2021 was a miss, so your pattern continues. Next season you'll make the playoffs again.   

Here's a look at the Leafs dubious recent playoff history, and I extended it back to year 2000 because I wanted to be generous and get one of those memorable "final four" (conference final) years in there:

So technically, the Leafs missed the playoffs last season (because they weren't one of the final 16 teams). That wrecked their Red Wingian "streak" of three consecutive playoff appearances. Prior to that it was 10 of 11 years missing the playoffs, and the lockout year has been omitted from the table as well.  One 1st round loss to Boston in there to break up the white space lol.

2003-04...... the last time the Leafs played hockey beyond round 1.  (They lost in round 2.)  Sad indeed.   

4 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

 

Again, as stated above,  ...welcome to being a Flyers fan.  See Giroux, Claude RE: lack of goals in recent playoffs.

Well the Flyers have had some deep playoff runs, and if memory serves correctly, isn't it usually your goaltending that lets you down?     

I can't remember if Matthews and Marner had trouble scoring the last time Toronto made the playoffs.

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Welcome to being a Flyer fan over the past 4 decades.

Imagine if the final four in the playoffs was Toronto, Buffalo, Philadelphia, and Vancouver.  I think the game would reset. 

"NHL process has stopped."

It's "put up or shut up" time for Matthews and Marner in this series:

Marner has 0 goals, but he is contributing with some assists. Still, not good enough. 

Matthews has 1 goal in 6 games, with a 3.1% S%. Again, a few assists here and there, but not good enough. The season would end on a real sour note if a 41 goal (realistically a 60 goal) season was spoiled by a no-show in the playoffs. 

The only reason the Habs are still alive in this series is because the real Matthews and Marner haven't shown up yet. 

I watched Matthews take a shot last night where he had 0% chance of scoring. The net was completely covered by Price from the angle Matthews was shooting and the shot went right into the logo on Price's chest. Couldn't have been an easier save. Someone needs to mix things up and try something new offensively. 

I also expect more out of Thornton as well. 1 point in 6 games, 0 assists. Also a team worst -3 along with Sandin. 

Leafs seemed lifeless through the first two periods, as if they were skating through sand. Finally a sense of urgency developed once Montreal went ahead 2-0.  Toronto starts to take over the game and ties it up 2-2. In the OT, all Toronto. It appeared like it was going to be over quick. When it got to something like 10 SOG for the Leafs in OT I started to have that seeping dread that this was going to be "one of those" OT periods where the first time Montreal gets a shot, it'll be over. Sure enough, the moment Montreal put some pressure on Toronto, it was over. 

1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

Now THERE is a cool, novel twist to make things interesting!
Split squad Leafs playoff games!!

Don't be surprised if this idea ends up on Bettman's docket. 

But if there is any team that can handle double duty like that, it's gotta be the Big Blue north of the border! 

I double checked the NHL schedule page just to make sure they didn't have both games booked at the same time!   

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

 

Split squad game! LOL

At the rate these playoffs are going, they might have already awarded the Stanley Cup before the Leafs get out of the first round!  

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

Soooooo ....... inquiring minds want to know, "IF" the Leafs lose tonight, are their collective ego's toast and lose Game 7 also?

 

The Habs are a pesky team.  They gave the Flyers fits last year ......

If the Leafs lose tonight then they'll have to play the Canadiens AND the Jets simultaneously in game 7 / game 1 of the second round.

(A joke about the NHL's bizarre pacing for these playoffs.)