GratefulFlyers

Tortorella’s probably tempted to ice the same team so what are the odds the captain sits again? The Flyers finally beat Toronto but it cost them something  … weird: it turned Couturier into a victim.

Any other player gets scratched starts grumbling about “the way I been treated around here lately” I wouldn’t think twice but Sean Couturier? Yeah that was a little weird. 

yawn... oh look Dubinsky's ragging on Tortorella again...

@mojo1917 I think we know all that. But I see a player choosing to play; I don't see "mismanagement." Of course there's pressure to play. No doubt Couturier felt it just as Simmonds did in his day. But that's pro sports my friend...

Maybe Tortorella did cut Couturier's ice time solely because of the injury. And? Is that something "less than" - something "other than" managing one of your players?

17 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

but somewhere there needs to be an adult in the room that says, hey bud you probably ought not play on that knee with the torn mcl.

Professionals right? Ultimately each one is his own "adult in the room." Once the medical staff clears him for contact it's still up to him to announce he's ready to go. I don't pretend to know how it works on every team in the NHL but I do know the player makes the final call on his readiness.

8 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I don't think I understand this POV. How do you "run" a player into the ground? Do you make them play more games than other players in the league? Do you make them skate more shifts? Has any Flyer come out and said they need a rest because they are playing too much? Do other teams do this, or is it just the Flyers? Im pretty sure most players only sit out games due to injury where the CAN'T play

the only one I remember is Bobrovsky and that was all Laviolette FWIU. Played him past his waiver-exemption and in the process overworked him into some bad starts in the POs that year. But he's the only one I recall. I'm not sure who @radoran is referring to on April 13th - Simmonds complained about too much ice time? Can't be...has to be someone else...

@radoran YOU ARE HEREBY CALLED TO ANSWER THE CHARGE OF WILLFULLY ... oh well could've been funny but I cramped up. Anyway who are the Flyers honoring on April 13th and what's his story?

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

I'm not sure of the long-term ramifications though, seems like an easy first step to losing the room he's so proud of .

could be...benching your captain is such a momentous decision it's bound to have unintended consequences. The good news is all the evidence suggests the entire organization is proud of "the room" this year. I expect the players will do whatever it takes to keep it intact, just as I expect Couturier's disappointment, anger etc. will quietly fade away and he'll be back in the lineup tomorrow night.

TK on the other hand...I smell it coming...healthy scratch. How will he handle it? Hopefully we don't find out but he hasn't scored in a month. He needs some goals ASAP.

great to see Ersson bounce back and have a real good game.

Laughton 2 plays of the game, taking the penalty prevented a goal then comes out of the box and scores. York/Sanheim had a great night too. Flyers bent but didn't crack!

so far the "shake up" is having a good effect. Early goals in the first 2 periods - great to see. .both teams  hitting some posts tonight..

FROST with a goal - wow that was from out in the parking lot! Holysh.. top of the zone - couple good screens by the Leafs thank you...

3-0 Flyers. Now they just can't have a 10-minute collapse and give them all back.

2 hours ago, radoran said:

Finally, "to win the game" is specifically NOT what they said this season was about. It was about developing culture and obviously accountability for everyone is part of that.

According to Tortorella it's always been about "winning the next game" and "we can't worry about the standings" and "we're focused on X-team" etc. That's been his message all season. The culture change had to happen first - obviously. They all said changing the room was Priority One. But trying to win every game - every shift - is integral to that; it's an indispensable part of the attitude change.

2 hours ago, radoran said:

But benching your month-old captain IS a bold move.

To say the least! I give up trying to figure Tortorella. I gave it a shot. I agree with his decision to bench Couturier at some point but why tonight I have no idea. It's such a huge game; just for FOs alone I'd have Couturier on the ice. 

edit: Maybe benching Couturier is a way sending the strongest message possible to the entire room. When the coach benches the captain things are obviously not going well. Lot of goals given up too few scored and Couturier's been as "meh" as anyone. Next one is Konecny he looks like a shell of himself lately.

Benching Couturier (or TK) says it loud and clear: nobody is "safe." That's all I got.

47 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I really don't see where this treatment benefits Couturier in the least. 

That's because it's not supposed to benefit the player, not primarily. You hope you get a Sanheim response but it's about winning the game. Apparently Tortorella thinks other guys are going better; hard to argue with him there...

Did Tortorella mismanage Couturier this year? I'm sitting pretty far away to make that call. He's been steadily decreasing his ice time the past few months so we know Tortorella's managing his ice time. What else should he be managing for Couturier?

As far as naming him captain I highly doubt the C is weighing him down.

We don't need to look hard for why he's a healthy scratch tonight: watch him play and it's kind of a no-brainer.

edit: Isn't this what everyone said they wanted, a HC who would "hold players accountable no matter who they are?" Yes. Many of us said that - even specifically pointing out Frost's benching but not Atkinson (favoritism!). Atkinson but not Couturier (hypocrite!). And now Couturier is making the popcorn and it's 100 variations of "Tortorella sucks." You guys kill me!

22 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

The ship is taking on water, I'm okay with it. 

A swoon will improve the draft position. It's all winning from this point forward. 

I'll get there eventually but not tonight. I hate losing to the Leaves.

A higher draft position is a good thing of course - still rather see them make the POs.

20 minutes ago, flyerrod said:

Sight unseen he can’t be worse than Peterson.

Thanks for the good laugh but seriously he could be a lot worse and if he is ...

do we really want his first NHL memory to be "ja smiardzieŭ?"

supposedly that's "I stunk" in Belarusian.

That would be great if they can get him out of Russia - or Belarus I guess (same difference) but I don't know about playing for the Flyers this season. The guy has never even skated on a North American rink AFAIK, let alone try to stop pucks from NHL shooters!

Finally...at least some news - non-practice rink still means another week at least probably more like 2.

Couturier a healthy scratch tonight? Wow I didn't think it would come to that but it's not all that shocking. He looked more involved in the Boston game...better than the weeks prior when he went entire games without making a noticeable play. 

11 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

The team is almost literally just a dumping grounds for LTIR contracts.

Shhh…please….the Flyers are counting on that desert dumping ground surviving at least a few more years.

21 minutes ago, flyerrod said:

Ristoleinin was playing much better hockey up until his injury.

At least it won’t take long for him to get back up to speed since ______ insert joke here ____…

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

It's not insignificant.

 

re: Seeler, Drysdale, Ristolainen’s impact … for this roster … that’s putting it mildly. It doesn’t help that the Flyers have apparently “gone dark” concerning these 3. 

47 minutes ago, radoran said:

I'm saying that if the company line that the entire foundation of the organization's culture was completely and utterly destroyed after a decade under the leadership of the longest serving captain in the history of the franchise is correct

But no one in or out of the organization has said that. Or implied that. Why not? Because it's an absurd proposition.

Everyone on those Giroux teams shares some responsibility for what happened. Anything over and above "some" is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

12 hours ago, flyerrod said:

How bad is it when we have to hope for Seeler’s return to stabilize the D?

yeah. it is bad. I won't, I can't minimize Seeler's impact on the team this year - he's been incredibly good. But yeah it's bad when it feels like he's your difference-maker.

Okay I appreciate that. Other than the fact that it omits much of reality it make perfect sense. Lol sorry to be blunt but...come on...I mean ... come on. The guy wore an A therefore he's responsible for 10 years of mediocre teams.

We're debating leadership positions, the C and the As, and what impact they have on the team's performance on and off the ice. Are they, as you imply, entirely and exclusively responsible for what we see on the ice? Also for the culture, the "personality" of the team?

Naturally they had some role in it what happened - there were there after all. But to try and quantify it and hold them responsible; that's what I find farfetched.

They don't get a "pass" but they're not the villains either. One last thing: Couturier and Laughton grew up with the team during the Giroux years. Why not take a glass-half-full approach and assume they learned a helluva lot and are bringing those lessons to the roster today?

13 hours ago, radoran said:

I'm saying I don't buy the company line on that whole situation.

What "company line?" You evidently heard something that I haven't heard.

I'm glad you take what I consider the only reasonable position Flyers' fans can take, i.e. "wait and see." I'm glad you're supporting the team by going to games. But whatever connections, leftovers, holdouts etc there are on the current roster, blaming them for the weaknesses of the Giroux years is a farfetched proposition imho.

14 hours ago, radoran said:

I'm saying that when you look at it through anything but "always good news for the Flyers" there is reason to be circumspect and continue to see how things develop.

Absolutely. But when it is good news, or at least debatable - like not trading Laughton - why look for a conspiracy and "proof" the current managers are "meet the new boss / same as the old boss." The "company line" thing sure smacks of it to me.

28 minutes ago, radoran said:

The jury isn't even out, the cases are still being presented.

and that’s good news because “the cases” are entirely different now.
 

This whole guilt-by-association thing you’re doing here with Couturier, Laughton (whoever) is nonsense. Clever but pure fantasy. Wearing the same jersey is not an automatic endorsement of the captain. It doesn’t imply you agree with his decisions or that you condone everything (or anything) he does, or your teammates do … let alone what the coaches and managers do. It’s called being on the same team that’s all. (I hope that didn’t come off snotty if so it wasn’t intentional)

Likewise when Tortorella says “don’t fall in love” with X, Y or Z because they may get traded and then Briere doesn’t trade them, that’s not an indictment of Briere’s management. Nor does it “prove” Tortorella’s advice was insincere or that Briere kept them only because they’re Tortorella’s favorites. It’s just what happened and in Laughton’s case Briere told fans exactly why.

So let’s not feign surprise and read a conspiracy into the fact that Laughton (and Seeler), highly praised by the head coach and by management didn’t get traded. Briere said “fair (market) value” wasn’t enough and he stuck by it. Thassall.

16 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Yes and unlike old time Flyer teams, we want guys with size who can actually skate and play hockey. 

Did you see the goal he scored last night, btw the legs, roofed it, a real beauty. I figured he had those moves in him just when would he start using them in games? And he wasn’t showboating it was the only move that had a prayer of beating Swayman. 

9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Meanwhile, Erik Johnson is -5 in 4 games with the Flyers.

lol c’mon…like that tells us anything about Johnson’s effectiveness? Nearly 3 blowouts in 4 nights I’d be surprised if anyone in the O&B is a Plus the past 4 games. 
 

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

It's a Flyers pattern that Briere has begun to dip his toe in. 

Gotcha. And I can’t argue with you there…in fact I came back to post, “but I’ll be watching for a pattern.”

Right now I’m convinced he and Jones, Hilferty are running the show, also that they sincerely want to do things differently, make a real break from the past Mediocre or Bust crapola. By this time next year we should know if it’s true. Even if we don’t all agree with every move the direction they’re taking the team should be clear by then.

@flyercanuck

I don’t…I never questioned whether there’s some real finds in the later rounds. Thanks for the list that was informative and interesting. Seriously. I still think it was well worth a 4R to get some veteran help on the blueline that’s all. If DB had given up a 2nd … different story… but he didn’t. 
 

Why he had to add a 5R on the other deal is beyond me. I don’t like it but I just don’t see a pattern (as you obviously do) of throwing away picks ala Holmgren and Clarke.