Mad Dog

i don't....think so. i'm not sure, the damn CBA is such a confusing mess...but pronger's salary wouldn't be a new aquisition. his cap hit applies regardless of the LTIR, the LTIR just allows replacement cushion. when he comes back, that cushion goes away and any salary in excess of the cap ceiling has to go with it. contrary to popular belief, the cap is still in effect in the playoffs. the cap is calculated 365 days per year, with a 10% bump from july 1 through the end of training camp. the rest of the time, it is in full effect.

Ok, but that's *only* if he comes back. If he is on LTIR for the rest of the season - which is what we are being told - then his salary does not count against the cap. Meaning the Flyers can use the void created to sign whoever they feel like. Correct?

I'll throw something else out there for deliberating (FC - more so for you since you mentioned you would trade everybody but Giroux for Weber... which I actually agree with). But would you include Couturier as part of the package to get Weber. Personally, I would NOT. So at least to me, that's two people (Couturier and Giroux) who I consider untouchable.

But to answer a direct question posed in this thread: what now? Frankly? Absolutely nothing. Seriously. Not right now anyway. Bourdon is playing some really terrific hockey – much better than I even thought he is capable of. Marshall is not there yet, and Gustavsson is a spare part. So the question becomes: can Bourdon hold his own in the playoffs. That, to me, is what the decision boils down to. I don’t mean to trivialize it as this is much more cumbersome than the way I make it sound, but on the basic level, that's the gist of the problem. Logic suggests, Bourdon will hit the wall, but remember we still have – at least on paper – a very decent defensive corps. Mezsaros, Carle, Timonen, and Coburn will be relied upon heavily to carry the load. Bourdon will not be looked at to play a major role. I really think this team can pull this off. But the trade deadline is when the decision would need to made IMHO, not right now.

Much like everybody, I would LOVE to see Weber in orange and black. But the Predators’ GM won’t just hand him to us. The price will be very steep as this is one of the top 5 d-men in the league we are talking. In fact, I am not sure who I would even rank higher than him at this point when considering defense and offense. Maybe Letang, and that’s a big ‘maybe’. And he didn’t even reach his full prime. It will take more than just JVR to get Weber. The team is playing quite well without Pronger. What’s the urgency?

Poor guy. It's difficult to even read this. Nobody deserves to go through this kind of torture.

Get well Chris and just retire to have a chance to live a normal life before it's too damn late.

Heard this morning on the local radio that the Flyers "are involved in active talks with Nashville and Colorado". No names have been mentioned.

His commitment to winning this entire season has been simply inredible. I never thought I would become Jaromir Jagr's fans.... not in a million years. But wow! What can you say!

Scott Hartnell is not taking a trade to Montreal. Book. It. Neither is Briere, Timonen, Bryzgalov or Pronger.

Not to mention the very absurdity of even trading Hartnell right now. He's been playing well on the first line, finally got the chemistry down with Briere and Giroux. This would be totally illogical, contractual issues notwithstanding.

And no way I am moving Carle for Gill. What would this trade gain exactly?

I agree with a consensus in this thread. Unless Montreal will offer Max Pacioretty and PK Subban, I really don't see anything exciting on their roster. And they are not trading either of those two. Plecanek? Ehmmm... Ok..... But why woudl we need a center unless Giroux is out for a long time?

What I can't understand is why the Flyers are even looking to make a trade? They are playing well right now. Sure they have certain holes, like any team, but to address those holes, you would need to weaken your other spots. Bourdon seems getting more and more comfortable and confident with his game and when Gustavson comes back, they would be in a good shape, even WITHOUT Pronger. But we just won 7 in a raw, did we not? Where are these trade talks coming from? I don't get it.

The ironic this is that Stevens retired due to consussions too, didn't he?

I believe he did. But I don't remember any details surrounding his concussion. Does anybody remember how he got it?

I agree with Rad. Watching the replay over and over again, I am not sure what Simmonds could do. There was no way he could've stopped as he was skating at full speed.

Giroux will be fine. sh!t happens.

It has a concussion written all over it. And this time, in the Flyers' true fashion I must add, the injury was incurred from the Flyers' own player. Beautiful... Only here.

I don't think it's possible to be worse than Lilja. The guy just can't play. I like Grossman's game. Steady and defensively responsible, while not the best skater. But there would have to be Flyers' players traded, I am sure, to make this happen.

I have a better idea...trade him to Montreal. They seem to love making deals for over the hill players with ridiculously long contracts.

Wait. I thought those players are Homer's types.

On this occasion Bryz bailed us out; the "big FA signing" finally paid off and he stole us a win.

Ok, but let's be honest for a sec. This is what he *is* supposed to do. This is what his peers do just about every other night..... the likes of Lundvist, Fleury, Rinne, and others. For Christ's sake, Mike Stinking Smith is winning the 'Yotes around 80% of the games so far.

I am not suggesting that the Flyers should completely put their faith in the hands of a goalie. But the reality is, he was signed exactly for what you mentioned he did last night: to "bail us out" and to "steal wins". He will be counted on doing that in the playoffs more often than not, because, frankly, this is just not a great Flyers team in front of him. Not terrible, not ugly, but not good enough to go all the way without their goalie being sensational and flawless.

So in a nutshell, Bryzgalov will have to be impeccable and great in the playoffs. If he is just OK and only makes saves he is expected to make but nothing above that, this acquisition should - and probably will - be looked at as a failure because we would have gotten the same results with Bob, except for much less money.

No Crosby and no Letang... The Flyers better win this one is all I can say.

Both trades were definately made with the future in mind from a Flyers point of view.

That's what I thought, too. But the more and more I look at it, the more it seems the Flyers were just compulsive and desperate trying to rid themselves of these two guys. And I really think the decision had to do with more the off-site issues than on-site. As inconsistent as Carter was, hardly anybody can argue the guy knows how to score. Yes, his playoff perfrormance has a lot to be deisred, but that along wasn't enough to ship him out of town. And Richards is Richards - a great two-way player who, when healthy, is effective in many areas of the game.

But from everything I read and heard, Snider had enough and reached the point where he simply couldn't stand both, especially Richards. He was apparently behind getting rid of both. So at that point the FLyers found themsleves sort of in the bind. They commited to get rid of them both in the last summer and didn't have much time to open a bidding war for each player. I really feel like Holmgren's plan was just to get the best he could for them in a limited time frame so he could free up huge money to sign Bryzgalov...

But in factuality, each trade *appears* to have been done for the future in mind, when you looked at what we got back. But I don't know if it was by design or it's just happened that what other teams were offering was sh!t and Homer took the best deals that were on the table knowing he was running out of time and need ot pull the trigger quickly.

@phlfly

Prongers caphit will count against the Flyers for the duration of the contract. There is no buyout, no LTIR, no waiver, nothing. Holmgren didn't have a clue what he was getting into when he signed him to that.

I didn't know all that. No buyout? We are ****ED!

Good point - but of course if he doesn't play that game then he's basically an average forward. The key to Richards' game is intensity, whether it's hitting or stealing the puck on the PK or whatever.

Well, I don't know if I can say he is an average player if he plays Mark Recchi-type game. It never hurts to play with intensity anyway. Richards just played with an extra edge, which is fine as long as you have a body of a power forward. That's why, like Mojo pointe dout, he really should've been spending time bulking up in the gym if he really wanted to play this way. Now God only knows how long he will be out and, more importantly, how much longer he can continue playing this way before he serioulsy starts breaking down.

@Mad Dog

he's not a fitness freak yet either, if he were in the gym all the time, even the off season , he might have a better shot at staying healthy, i don't think he's put it together yet or if he has; he hasn't been healthy enough or interested to start seriously taking care of himself.

You know, interesting you mentioned this. I recall in his either first or second year with the Flyers (Hitch was still the coach, which tells you how far back it goes), I read that he was lifting weights like crazy. I even remember someone saying that at taht pace, Sylvester Stallone owuld be jealous of Mike's large muscles. I guess he understood that to be able to play th style he wanted to play, he needed to build a frame.

But after awhile (his second year in the NHL, I guess), he hardly set a foot in a gym. I wonder what happened. But something must've happened for him to abandon that plan.

Is he out injured?

Seems to be. He left the game in the 2nd period (or after the 2nd) and didn't return.

It really is a shame. He plays like a power forward without having a body of a power forward. He is not built like Keith Tkachuk, Iginla, Wendel Clark, or Cam Neely. Yet he plays their style. I said long time ago that playing this all-out style will end his career one day. It hasn't yet, but one has to wonder how much of continuing beating his body is capable of taking at this point before he doesn't have much of the body left.

The defense is a weakest part of this team; I think by now we all can agree on that. Pronger is already out. Lilja is also out (not atht it makes a even a tiny bit of a difference, but that's another body out of the lineup). Why weaken the defense even further? With Pronger out, it's crucial to have a veteran like Timonen, a calming voice in and off the ice..... the guy who just about everybody on the team looks up to. This defense is disorganized enough, and in some games looked plain lost. Now imagine Timonen been removed from the team. I can't even picture the effect that will have on how this team plays. I can see that being simply devastating.

Again, if the Flyers fall apart and freefall after the winter break with no playoff in sight, it's a different ballgame. Start the firesale with the next season in mind. But till that happens, I just don't see a reason for taking some drastic, dramatic measures that have been suggested over the last 2-3 days on this board (trading Bryzgalov, trading Timonen, trading Briere, trading Bob, etc.). See how this team plays before going to such an extreme.

I can't see Timonen being moved until Timonen decides he wants to be traded.

Timonen having a No Movement Clause, one year left on what could very likely be his last deal and, as you note, a favorable impression with management.

Luckily we're down to just five NMC/NTC's on the roster...

Timonen has been a class act and a true warrior his whole career. But I don't know if you remember, but when Homer signed him 5 years ago (was it 5 years ago?), Kimo asked a pointed question: how long the rebuild will last, hinting at the fact that he didn't really feel like being a part of a rebuilding franchise for too long. Snider and Homer re-assured him, at that point, that it wasn';t going to take long at all and they were going to put together a competative roster.

The point is, he's been patient. But I am sure his patience has been pretty much pushed to the limit at this point. He is not getting younger and he won't be playing hockey for much longer. I read this summer in one of the local papers that he voiced his urgency to win. He wants to win. He wants to win BAD.

I have no doubt if the right deal comes along to move him to the contender, he will wave his NMC/NTC. Maybe reluctantly, but he'll wave it.

Holly sh!t... What's up with this head coach firing spree this season? Frnakly, I think it's a swap. Both are decent coaches, but when something is not working, it's time to make a change. It's worked for most of the teams, so why not......

I guess my thinking is for the future. I'm thinking trade TImonen now while he has value. I don't think we're a Cup team this year or next year, so why not use some chips to boost an area of weakness long-term? Fowler has top pairing potential and PP quarterback. He's only 19. That being said, I doubt Anaheim moves him.

ANd as much as I would hate to trade Bob, as you say, he's one of the only appealing chips that we have, and we have to accept that Bryz is the starter for the forseeable future. So, again, why not use Bob in a package if that means a backup goalie in return as well as a future top pairing defenseman?

I see your line of thinking. Yeah, I guess if considered in the context of future, it would be good to move Timmonen's salary, which I see a major benefit in this deal. And as reluctant as I am to admit it... I agree that I don't see this team as a contender this year for sure, and likely the next year either.

With that said, I know the Flyers love Kimo (not that I have a problem with him, myself) and I just can't see him moved until/unless it becomes clear that the team is free falling and needsd to start buidling for the future.

The team is not playing well in front of him lately, but he was supposed to be a goalie that will win games single handedly and carry the team through slumps.

And again, not sure why people thought that he is capable of that. Nothing in his career backs up this kind of a confidence.

After saw him playing for big club anf than putting for points for AHL, do you think he is AHL caliber player only?! It seems to me he can play good around AHL, and almost completely lost in NHL. Is he second Alexandre Daigle

Way, way too early to tell, not to mention compare him with Daigle. But he may be the type of player who can only excel at lower levels like AHL and just not have enough to be relevant in the NHL. But again, it's still way too early.