I've actually watched Pronger most of his career and liked the guy when he was younger. I disagree with your assessment that he's why you had a shot at the cup, though I am sure his leadership was valuable, his best playing time was behind him. Timonen I've watched for some time in his games against my boys. I once thought very highly of him, and even had him on my fantasy team, but again he's past his prime by two years in my opinion. His stats reflect more on the offensive capabilities your team now possesses, and less on his individual play. Lilja had a higher plus/minus than Timonen with 8 minutes less ice time per game, and you guys generally RAIL Lilja. Not to mention most of Timonen's points came as assists, and how many of those were primary I wonder? Granted Meszaros was hurt, but I didn't think much of him before he was a Flyer either, so it holds no prejudice that I don't think much of him now. He still got 3 more goals than Timonen in 14 fewer games. Plus 6 in 62 games isn't top notch. I guess part of my point about your defense is ... Timonen's points left him 16th in the league on defense. BUT... if you break it down to defensive play, the highest defenseman you had is Gustaffson at +12... ranking 35th in the league. And Coburn at + 10 ranking 44th. I think Coburn is your best defenseman myself, but I value defense over point production on the blue line. Timonen by comparison was 57th. I know your frustrations with Carle defensively, but he is a creative young player who in the limited capacity I have seen has good movement and as you said can handle the puck. You're right in that I haven't seen a lot of his gaffe's that so many here knock him for, but honestly, when your boys play mine, he is the ONLY defenseman you have that worries me when he's carrying the puck into our end. And I am not alone in that thinking. He's not a slap shot guy, I know, but he's good at getting in close with the puck, and that's where most defensemen become dangerous. Maybe he steps up his play against the Pens, but right now, with your stable, he's the only guy you have that is a scoring threat on your D. He had 132 shots on goal leading all of your defensemen. (Timonen close second at 130). These are my opinions of your players, much as you fellas give me your opinions on ours. if you think it's meant to insult you, then you need to thicken your skin. I'm simply trying to provide you with a perspective that's not wearing orange and black lenses. I've honestly posted about players you have that I like and think a lot of, and players I don't think a lot of. I'm not slamming your organization for it, it's just the facts of every team. Good, bad, & ugly on the roster.