Polaris922

Would you (not being a dick) mind providing a link?

 

I'm busy as can be at work today man so try using google for the moore lawsuit and see if you can find it.  I just don't have the time.  As I said we spoke of it in the previous thread at length so you could always go there to see it.  I think we copy/pasted directly from it at the time.  

@Polaris922 If they bought Orpik out next year, I believe they would be paying it off until 2028......WOW!! They are married to this guy for better or for worse. They might eventually get a get out jail card when the next strike/CBA comes......when is this current CBA scheduled to expire?

Trotz just gave a statement saying they got Orpik for his maturity, leadership, and toughness that their defense was lacking. Sounds like they're already making excuses for that contract just in case.

Would you (not being a dick) mind providing a link?

It took us hours to find it last time. I'm working a 17 hr shift tomorrow if I get some down time I'll try finding it again.

This might be one of the stupidest threads I've ever read on here. A lot of guessing and conjecture going on about Giroux first of all. To think he has a problem based on one night of drunken misadventure....that is taking a pretty big leap. It's impossible to draw these types of conclusions based on this one night. Now there is speculation he was drinking when he hurt himself golfing?? Really??....hey, maybe...maybe not, but until anything is proven, it's all conjecture. I'm willing to give G the benefit of the doubt.

Does anyone care G is a 3.5 years younger than Weber, and is entering his prime? Our offense would be PUTRID without G. He *is* the straw that stirs the drink. How about we show some patience, and just see if one of these 5 or 6 excellent prospects turn out to be our stud d-man we have been searching for?? I admire Weber, he is great in his own right, but the age difference AND the fact we finally have some wicked young D prospects of our own tells me to sit back and stay patient.

The end is near! We're all DOOOOOOOMED!

Until the medical issues are made public it's 100% hearsay for us to debate!

As I said earlier they're documented in the lawsuit and we found them the last time we did all this so they are documented. It's the validity some argued but 5 different medical Ted agreed for the most part.

Oh my god REPORTED!

I'm a Pens fan and even I didn't go there!

Tough question goes unanswered. Do we realize what Moore is asking for is more than Yzerman made?

Actually the wino would be dead and his surviving family would be made millionaires by suing the responsible party. Seen it a few times actually. One was an ex-wife and two kids getting $15 million in a wrongful death suit over their father the drunk dying after being hit by a car.

Any YOU have proof of said brain damage? Come on man his attorney's are trumping everything up.

Here's a very simple question? If he's so bad off why did his legal team forbid Moore from entertaining the contract offer he was offered and let the physical tell the story?

Simple answer. If he accepted the contract offer and was either unable to play or simply put on waivers after he weakened his case for restitution significantly. Add that to his doctors saying he would not be cleared to play and the NHL's own comp insurance providers BOTH agreeing he would not be medically cleared and you have the offer for what it was... A legal ploy by the NHL to reduce liability for court.

The proof of brain damage lay in the medical teams' diagnosis of long term effects post concussion damage. The hospital trauma staff and both insurer's again agreed with the findings.

Well played sir!

Thank you... It just kinda grabbed me.

Fact is Bertuzzi had 39 points in 76 games in his first season while Moore had 12 points in 69 games total NHL games. Bertuzzi was in the minor ONE time in career. Moore was a call up for injuries. To say Moore had more potential than Bertuzzi's 47m lifetime salary is ridiculous at best.

Everything I noted above except for the sentence is fact.

That's the thing though... It's about potential. The man has a documented 130+ IQ and now has brain damage. What if he'd played say... Six years in the NHL then got into coaching or marketing or became an agent? How much could he have made? Or even on a two way contract how much would he have made?

Now add his damages which the Canadian cap DOES allow to go higher for life changing injuries according to some Canadian attorneys...

Bertuzzi's worth doesn't matter. The aftermath of his actions does.

But what happens when there are differing opinions about what is opinion vs what is fact? Therein lies the rub.

I'm the conductor!! Who's in the caboose? Giroux grabbed the caboose!

Empathy does not equal truth. Empathy is just empathy!

BTW in my years of watching and playing I can make a pretty good determination of a 3rd line AHL player. 12 points in 69 NHL games and zero playoffs games. As I noted earlier see Ken Germander.

The truth is in the injuries and life impact they have.

I've played and watched a long time too man, but assessment of talent remains opinion. And they sue for earnings POTENTIAL, which none of us can quantify by saying what he'd become. Some skaters are written off then bloom after everyone gives up on them. There's just no way if knowing what will be. If there were drafting would be much easier.

I took it personally because you made an assumption of SOMEONE you have never met! That my friend is at the very least disingenuous at best.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but it was no assumption. Your comments show a lack of empathy for the injuries involved, which display a lack of experience with them. There was no insult meant or stated in the use of the word. I am ignorant to the mechanics of a motorcycle or nuclear aircraft carriers. It's not an insult, I just don't know about how they work.

As for documents the medical reports on Moore are available in google searches and the lawsuit itself. I read them when we went over this all the first time like many others here did. I was trying to avoid all this BS again but got drawn into it anyway.

My math is a bit off, but league minimum is like $600k. So it would be more like 9 years at league minimum.

And in any case, the system will require him to prove lost earnings, while the other side will call upon GM's and the business side to show why e was a marginal NHL player who likely stays in the AHL to lower the settlement.

The cap limit is specifically for "Pain and suffering" damages and punitive damages, and limits it to $1350000. He could still make bank if he convinced the judge he would have made 60 million in salaries. If. Like I said, he will need to have experts in the field(GM's/Agents) backing him up. Should be an ugly show.

You can call it a joke all you want, but the bigger joke is the system that let's a woman sue McDonald's for 3 million dollars and win because she did not know hot coffee could burn her if she tried to open it in the car to add condiments. Our cap is what prevents such lawsuits.

Show me these recent hospital and medical teams in the last 5 years that are not his personal "Experts" on the stand?

Most 3rd and 4th liners sit around a million per year so that's what my post was based upon as minimums, sorry. Should've said bottom six averages.

I agree the McDonalds rulings and such are a joke. But also think having a lifelong injury as a 25 year old or whatever he was at the time deserves more than that cap allows for. Again look at all he may very well miss out on. How much is being able to participate in activities with your children worth to you?

And again... The hospital emergency room medical team, the hospital trauma team that did his follow ups, yes his own doctors, the medical review boards for BOTH NHL insurance companies... That's 5 different groups of professionals that agreed with the extent of his injuries.

The argument that just his doctors reviewed him was actually soundly rebutted in several of the articles written on his lawsuit.

Don't worry about Old School. He took my use of the word "ignorance" as it's often misconstrued to mean rude or stupid instead of just unaware as I'd intended. Let him be angry with me.

EVERYTHING you have noted is your opinion!!!!! Yet anyone else that has an opinion is ignorant? So that's how it works? Your opinion is correct and everyone has no opinion. MY OPINION says Simon, McSorley, Hunter and Richard did things far worse than Bertuzzi but lucky the results were different. But F it my opinion doesn't matter.

How much money did Cam Neely lose at the knee of Ulf Samuelsson?

Please get over yourself! We have opinions no matter how insignificant they might be in your view!

Someone having life changing injuries is an opinion? Have you ever known someone who can't do those things because of an injury or illness? I assure you it's not an opinion. If he truly has the issues the doctors (his and others) say he has, there is no opinion to it. My wife has these same health limitations. Has since she was 24. I see first hand the emotional and psychological toll such limitations take on a person. Especially raising children and not being able to participate in so many things. THAT is why I can say how it hampers a person without it being opinion. It's something you haven't had to experience. I get that. I hope you never do. But it doesn't minimize the impact on Moore's life that is the direct result of a criminal assault by Bertuzzi.

You can lump the Simon and McSorley hits in there too. I'm all for it.

Enough with the butthurt. I can't help it you were unaware of the true definition of a word and took it personally. But if every single comment you make is going to be aggressive, it only reflects poorly on you.

A couple things here. My 45+ years of watching hockey tells me Moore was nothing more than what he was. An AHL player that got called up occasionally. Once he would have lost his exempt status he'd have found himself in the AHL or unemployed. See Ken Germander.

You can watch hockey 50 years it doesn't mean you can see into the future. You can't predict what a Holmgren will pay. So Moore most likely wouldn't have been all star material. Doesn't mean he wouldn't make millions. And in suing someone you sue for potential income as well so how do you predict that?

you showed no empathy for the life impact of his injuries. None. You can hate a guy and still empathize with their injury. (see Chris Pronger)

You can't just disregard that.

The point is you're wrong on the value of the man's quality if life. Being unable to dispute that, it's easier to locker room the debate. Moore already won this when Bertuzzi plead guilty. It's just a question of how much. If Canada's system restricts him to 3 or 5 million then the whole system is a joke. He could've made that in three years at league minimums.

Must add levity to situation!

There haha.

We can go on all day about the doctors. One side wanted him to see other doctors than his handpicked ones, the other wanted to avoid them. You can say it is the NHL playing the game, and I will say it is Moore playing the game.

The comments regarding being equal to Sakic/Forsberg were just that. The line read at the time like this....

"Despite the star studded lineup of Sakic, Forsberg, Selanne, Kariya, etc etc, Moore worked his way up to top line icetime". Which is not only a lie(He played a shift or two on the top line in games they were down a goal and the coach was juggling lines to get something going), but he was only there because THOSE GUYS WERE INJURED.

Seriously. Go to older Colorado forums and look at 2003/04 posts. Moore was called up 4 times and sent back down 4 times(And nobody cared to claim him from waivers for free) because he was their 4th choice as a call up. Even the call up's were getting injured. The amount of injuries hitting Colorado at the time was absurd. Every time you saw a headline "Moore recalled from hershey" the fans exploded with "OMG, who is injured now????"

So yeah, we can hypothesize that a crazy GM might have enentually given him a stupid contract, or we can look at reality and say his skating(His skating was at best, Doug Murray level) would not have been great in the post lockout NHL. Dominik Moore was a better player at all aspects than his brother. Bigger, faster, better skillset, better skating, hands, everything and still only a roleplayer. And in all that time, he has made 8 million dollars. And he was well ahead of Steve in all respects.

In any case, we will see soon enough. That's my opinion. You have yours and ill respect that it is your opinion.

The only real nitpick I had lately is the "Pain and suffering + Punitive" nonsense and how people think it will be where a lot of money comes from. Canada has a cap on both. Regarding pain and suffering/quality of life and punitive money he might get, it is capped in Canada. He cannot get more than a Million in punitive and 350k in Pain and suffering. So $1350000. The rest will be whatever case he makes for lost income until he is 65.

In the USA, yes he could break the bank on those fronts. That is why he fought kicking and screaming to keep it in the states, while Bertuzzi's side tried to get it tossed to Canada and won.

The point you keep avoiding though is two medical teams at the hospital and two review boards at the insurance companies AGREE with Moore's doctors. So it's not like its just his boys saying something and that's that.

Also, my understanding of the cap after reading is lifelong injuries can vastly impact the monetary cap. Though that may fall in other than punitive damages. Guess we'll see.

@yave1964 is 100% right. The NHL should've given Moore a reasonable offer and none of this would even be thought about today. Instead we have a blemish on the NHL in a lawsuit they cannot win.

They can buy him out... But at a cap hit for however many years... Lol.

Do you realize Moore was offered a contract but his legal team would NOT let him anywhere near a doctor for a physical?

Here's the question for you? If there's no doubt in anyone's mind he's so badly injured why would his legal team not want him to take a physical to prove he's injured.

 

 

For the record there are several teams of doctors that support Moore's side of the medical damages including the hospital that saw him, the hospitals follow up trauma team, Moore's doctors, and BOTH insurance companies the NHL uses for comp claims. I've covered this before. The NHL asking to see yet another set if doctors is the NHL playing the game, not Moore avoiding it. Of course he won't see them. I wouldn't either. Only a fool would.

The quality of life is the issue. Again... What price do you put on the ability to catch baseball with your kid? Ride a roller coaster with them? Watch fireworks? Walk all day through Disney World? All things severe vertigo does away with. How much is that worth?

None of us... Here, the Av's, the NHL... Nobody knows how much Moore could have earned. Tyler Kennedy got $2,000,000 to be a scratch. Engelland just got $2,900,000 a year to do what again? Guys are getting $5,000,000 a year to be role players. Moore was a role player. Who knows what some lunatic GM would've paid him somewhere along the way?

Like it or not his twam's comments about being equal to Salic or Forsberg can be interpreted to mean he's in the big leagues now playing for a Stanley Cup. Which he was. I don't see him saying he was their equal in talent, just that he skated with them for it all, which he did. Funny how perspective can change the meaning.

Simply put, Moore deserves Bertuzzi's money more than Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi will retire and be wealthy regardless. Moore will be handicapped the rest of his life. However slight you may think that's worth.

So you think he should get more than Bertuzzi? He was a board line AHL 3rd liner!

I think Bertuzzi should've been banned from the NHL.

I think he should've served jail time.

I think no one knows what Moore could've been, third line or otherwise. But thanks to Bertuzzi, Moore never gets a chance to find out, either.

And I think Moore will suffer the effects of Bertuzzi's assault for the rest of his days.

How much do you value time spent with your children? Or grandchildren? Riding rides or watching fireworks? I have a wife that can't do those things because of an illness, and I see how it hurts her to miss out. Moore may be missing out on those things as well, BECAUSE if Bertuzzi's actions.

So tell me again what Moore is worth. What life is worth. Tell me again how you all know so much what someone else's quality if life is worth.

 

I'm not going through all this again. I hope he wins. You hope he loses. Done deal.

Again there's a punitive side to damages too. It's not JUST about his earnings potential, it's about punishing Bertuzzi for an act of violence. It's also against the Canucks for sending Bertuzzi out there to do it.

And let's face it... People always sue for ridiculous amounts hoping to get a fraction of it. That's how the game is played. Moore is an intelligent man with a legal team. He'll win, just a matter of how much.

Oh my... Lol.

Kennedy and Burish are the only two centers who fail at wing for the sharks.

Kennedy has played wing his whole NHL career. His failing has nothing to do with position. Lol

Until I see the video, I will never know. Buttgate may have been going for the cheeks, or for the full reacharound to the balls and chode.

Now there's a GIF I've never seen before. Lol