Signed Contract Jagr signs with Stars

[radoran]

It would be interesting to see who the other suitors were. That would tell the full story. I have to think that Detroit was in the mix and to pick Dallas over Detroit (especially if it was 500k or less difference) would be shocking. The one thing is that I think he really wants to continue being a first line guy. While certainly other teams could give him ball park money in the 4m range, how many can gurantee him first line minutes?

There weren't any:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2012-07-05/jaromir-jagr-stars/56034506/1

"But they wanted to go in a different direction," Jagr said. "They were waiting for (free agents Zach) Parise and (Ryan) Suter. I would have had to wait until probably right now to try to negotiate a new deal with the Flyers and I just didn't want to wait."

"I always wanted to play in Canada, and I wanted to go to Montreal if I had a chance," he said. "Montreal wasn't interested, and then all of a sudden, I got a call from (Stars general manager) Joe Nieuwendyk and I was very happy."

What persuaded Jagr to sign was Nieuwendyk's belief that Jagr would be a significant contributor for a Dallas team will enter the 2012-13 season looking for its first trip to the playoffs in five years. Nieuwendyk has Jagr penciled in playing with center Jamie Benn and 30-plus goal scorer Loui Eriksson.

"I think I can play on the first two lines," said Jagr, who scored 19 goals last season. "I don't want to be in the NHL just to sit around. I want to be a big part of a team."

Asked about the Stars' chances of making the playoffs, Jagr said what he has learned is "don't underestimate anyone. Ever."

Jagr said the Stars have to make the playoffs.

"I think I've only missed the playoffs once in my life," he said. "I don't want to do it again."

Playing with Jamie Benn on a team that shouldn't be underestimated in its chances to actually make the playoffs or playing with "Baby Mario" on a team that has missed the playoffs once in the past 18 years?

The more "explanation" I get from Jagr, the more prima-donna-y it gets.

[JackStraw]

Here's a novel idea. Maybe the reason Jagr didn't sign with the Flyers was because... HOMER NEVER MADE HIM AN OFFER!

While offers were still on the table for Zach Parise and Ryan Suter, Paul Holmgren said the Flyers were not in any position to negotiate a new deal with Jaromir Jagr when his agent called on Tuesday.

Jagr, 40, will earn $4.55 million next season in Dallas, up from the $3.3 million he made last season with the Flyers.

"I don't know if he got antsy or what," Holmgren said. "I got a call late on the 3rd that he was getting excited and wanted to make a move, and I wasn't prepared to do anything at that time. I think it's a great addition for Dallas. It just got to the point where I needed to move, and he wasn't ready to wait."

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20120706_Flyers_sign_Fedotenko__Gervais.html

[Vanflyer]

The more "explanation" I get from Jagr, the more prima-donna-y it gets.

I don't know. Everything he stated makes perfect sense to me. He didn't want to be option b for the Flyers. I am a bit stunned that there were not any other suitors.

Homer really screwed the pooch this summer. He could have tendered the offer to Parise, signed Carle AND signed Jagr (4.5 is rich for my blood, but I would go 3.8 - 4m). Offerring the contract to Suter- who publicly stated he has zero interest of playing Philly locked Homers cash up.

The travel part of that article was pretty interesting.

[JackStraw]

Homer really screwed the pooch this summer. He could have tendered the offer to Parise, signed Carle AND signed Jagr (4.5 is rich for my blood, but I would go 3.8 - 4m). Offerring the contract to Suter- who publicly stated he has zero interest of playing Philly locked Homers cash up.

I agree. It's hard to figure out what, if anything, Homer was actually trying to accomplish. If he was trying to accomplish not much of anything, well, he pretty much succeeded. But if he was hoping for more than that I'd have to say that he really screwed up.

[Vanflyer]

@JackStraw-

The thing that is odd for me is that why didn't Suter say right away- thanks but no thanks. The numbers the Flyers offerred were the less than what Nashville was willing to give and what Detroit offerred. I am happy he is out West, otherwise I would want the Flyers to destroy him every chance they got. Poile had every right to be extremely pissed. The irony is that I don't think Minnesota got any better and that they will not make the playoffs this year.

[radoran]

Here's a novel idea. Maybe the reason Jagr didn't sign with the Flyers was because... HOMER NEVER MADE HIM AN OFFER!

And Jagr "didn't want to wait."

I don't know. Everything he stated makes perfect sense to me. He didn't want to be option b for the Flyers. I am a bit stunned that there were not any other suitors.

Homer really screwed the pooch this summer. He could have tendered the offer to Parise, signed Carle AND signed Jagr (4.5 is rich for my blood, but I would go 3.8 - 4m). Offerring the contract to Suter- who publicly stated he has zero interest of playing Philly locked Homers cash up.

The travel part of that article was pretty interesting.

It makes sense to me, too. I'm not arguing the logic of the situation. This is sports not the Vulcan Science Academy so pure logic isn't the only thing in play.

I don't think Homer felt Jagr and Carle were "necessary" pieces for the team. They were complimentary.

I don't think Homer ever felt they were going to sign Parise and Suter. I think he made the best offer. I think he gave an honest effort. I don't believe he ever thought they were coming here - because of what both players had said about where they wanted to go.

What I think it did was convince the pair they could go to the same team and push out teams who more directly compete with the Flyers (Devils, Pens, Rags).

Meanwhile, the day before the pair make their choice and an entire two days into the FA period, two and a half months before camp opens Jagr grasps for the only offer on the table.

Let's recall another quote from the article:

Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren explained his position during a conference call Thursday.

"I spoke with (agent) Petr Svoboda all through the process," he said. "I don't know if he got antsy or what. I got a call late on the 3rd that he was getting excited and wanted to make a move, and I wasn't prepared to do anything at that time. We still had offers out on the table that I wanted to wait on, and I wasn't prepared to move on Jaromir at the time.

When Svoboda calls and says "ZOMG, we simply MUST make deal now now now!" because Dallas just ponied up $4.5M, Homer says (even without knowing the number and the team) "so long, been good to know ya!"

I would have preferred to keep Jagr,. I would have preferred that Jagr wanted to be here. But if the process was:

July 1: Flyers have not made an offer - they don't want me, even though they've been talking to my agent the whole time and have said publicly they would like me to return. Canada's nice. Maybe I would like to play in Montreal.

July 2: Montreal doesn't want me, but my friend Joe called from Dallas and offered me a buttload of money.

July 3: Flyers can't give me immediate answer. I'll sign with Dallas.

It doesn't pass my "smell test."

[radoran]

@JackStraw-

The thing that is odd for me is that why didn't Suter say right away- thanks but no thanks. The numbers the Flyers offerred were the less than what Nashville was willing to give and what Detroit offerred. I am happy he is out West, otherwise I would want the Flyers to destroy him every chance they got. Poile had every right to be extremely pissed. The irony is that I don't think Minnesota got any better and that they will not make the playoffs this year.

I think he and Parise wanted to go to the same team? So if Parise was willing to consider/string along the Flyers, he would too?

[JackStraw]

@JackStraw-

The thing that is odd for me is that why didn't Suter say right away- thanks but no thanks. The numbers the Flyers offerred were the less than what Nashville was willing to give and what Detroit offerred. I am happy he is out West, otherwise I would want the Flyers to destroy him every chance they got. Poile had every right to be extremely pissed. The irony is that I don't think Minnesota got any better and that they will not make the playoffs this year.

Whatever Suter's motivation was, it was just stupid of Homer to handle things the way he did. Tell the world you think you can sign Carle for less than market value, then make a huge offer to Suter and Parise, knowing that you will have trouble signing even one of them let alone both. Meltzer (as usual) hits it right on the head in his blog:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?blogger_id=45

"Strictly as a hockey decision, trying to upgrade from Carle to Suter made sense. Suter is the better player. As a business decision, however, it was foolish. Given a choice of one contract or the other, it would have made more sense to commit early to Carle and overpay by even a million dollars for five years than to pay Suter like a franchise player for the next decade.

By waiting so long on the Suter longshot, the Flyers made it abundantly clear to Carle that re-signing him was not a top priority. So, in turn, any shot the Flyers may once have had at getting even a slight hometown discount in the end (such as Braydon Coburn provided when re-upping for four years rather than testing the market this summer and collecting an extra $500,000 to $750,000 per season) was gone."

I don't think that losing either Jagr or Carle are disasters for the team. But the ham-handed way that Homer has gone about things this summer leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

[doom88]

Playing time, significant role, nice contract...seems fine to me. He said he wanted those first two things last season too. The money is just gravy. I don't blame Jagr at all. If anyone wants to be mad, target Homer, Clarke, and Snider.

[JackStraw]

@radoran - I would have liked to have kept Jagr too. I do think it came down to the Flyers not being able to promise him the prominent on-ice role that he was looking for. And I'm fine with that, both from Homer's perspective and from Jagr's. I think the big mistake was making offers to Suter and Parise, knowing that there was virtually no chance of landing either one. Homer should have worried more about keeping his own house in order and less about playing mind games with the other GMs in the league.

[radoran]

@radoran - I would have liked to have kept Jagr too. I do think it came down to the Flyers not being able to promise him the prominent on-ice role that he was looking for. And I'm fine with that, both from Homer's perspective and from Jagr's. I think the big mistake was making offers to Suter and Parise, knowing that there was virtually no chance of landing either one. Homer should have worried more about keeping his own house in order and less about playing mind games with the other GMs in the league.

I'm more looknig for an explanation for the behavior than endorsing it. I'm way out on the speculation scale and fully admit it.

If he could have had Jagr at $4M or less and Carle at $4.75M before the FA deadline, he should have done both.

I have little to no faith in how this "organization" runs itself. If they weren't sitting on a mountain of Comcast money, they would be as laughable as Columbus IMO.

[doom88]

I'm more looknig for an explanation for the behavior than endorsing it. I'm way out on the speculation scale and fully admit it.

If he could have had Jagr at $4M or less and Carle at $4.75M before the FA deadline, he should have done both.

I have little to no faith in how this "organization" runs itself. If they weren't sitting on a mountain of Comcast money, they would be as laughable as Columbus IMO.

They could not sign extensions because there wasn't enough cap tagging space.

[JackStraw]

I'm more looknig for an explanation for the behavior than endorsing it. I'm way out on the speculation scale and fully admit it.

If he could have had Jagr at $4M or less and Carle at $4.75M before the FA deadline, he should have done both.

I have little to no faith in how this "organization" runs itself. If they weren't sitting on a mountain of Comcast money, they would be as laughable as Columbus IMO.

I would love to know the explanation for the behavior too, I'm just afraid that it will be that the organization can't decide whether its "plan" is to win now or build for the future. Seems like they swing from one extreme to the other. At the end of the day, the two free agent names that were most realistic, and that made the most sense for the team, were "Carle" and "Jagr". And Homer lost both of them. No soup for you Homey.

[radoran]

They could not sign extensions because there wasn't enough cap tagging space.

I did a whole thread on tagging space :-)

They could easily have had agreements on those numbers and filed 9AM on July 1.

[JackStraw]

They could not sign extensions because there wasn't enough cap tagging space.

But they could have had deals more or less in place for both of them.

[doom88]

I did a whole thread on tagging space :-)

They could easily have had agreements on those numbers and filed 9AM on July 1.

True, and I thought they had verbal agreements, but the real offers went out to other guys. Why? I have no idea.

[radoran]

True, and I thought they had verbal agreements, but the real offers went out to other guys. Why? I have no idea.

Either Homer was doing some double super-secret Venusian Akido or he simply dropped the ball and screwed up.

I'm 50/50 on the question, depending on the day.

[JackStraw]

Either Homer was doing some double super-secret Venusian Akido or he simply dropped the ball and screwed up

Clearly some people are immune to Homer's Jedi Mind Tricks.

[doom88]

Clearly some people are immune to Homer's Jedi Mind Tricks.

These are not the UFAs you are looking for.

[Vanflyer]

not the Vulcan Science Academy so pure logic isn't the only thing in play.

Don't make fun of my alma mater.

I don't think Homer ever felt they were going to sign Parise and Suter.

I don't mind the Parise offer. It is the Suter offer that I think was stupid. Maybe there was some behind the scenes rumblings that both players wanted to go to the same team together. THAT is the only plausible situation I can see making the Suter offer.

Meanwhile, the day before the pair make their choice and an entire two days into the FA period, two and a half months before camp opens Jagr grasps for the only offer on the table.

The past is offen a predicator to the furture. Jagr did not waste any time LAST summer in signing with a team. He did it right away. I don't think the guy likes to wait.

July 2: Montreal doesn't want me, but my friend Joe called from Dallas and offered me a buttload of money.

.500k above market value is not a buttload IMO.

At the end of the day, you are right, he could have waited. But if I am him, why should I? You tell me you want me and then the first day of free agency you make offers that eliminate that statement to other players. I have pride. I am a future HOF'er. I will give you one last chance because I really like the team. When that last chance was "still waiting on our other offers", I say see ya, nice knowing ya.

[Vanflyer]

Homer should have worried more about keeping his own house in order and less about playing mind games with the other GMs in the league.

exactly!!

[Vanflyer]

I don't think Homer felt Jagr and Carle were "necessary" pieces for the team. They were complimentary.

This one is kind of laughable to me. I am not sure how you can think that your leading TOI player is not "necessary" to the team. While not a pronger, weber or even Suter, he is still an essential cog at 23 minutes a night. I mean are the between the lines that Grossman / Bouron / Gus will chew up those minutes?

[Vanflyer]

But they could have had deals more or less in place for both of them.

Just no signature until after July1.

[radoran]

At the end of the day, you are right, he could have waited. But if I am him, why should I? You tell me you want me and then the first day of free agency you make offers that eliminate that statement to other players. I have pride. I am a future HOF'er. I will give you one last chance because I really like the team. When that last chance was "still waiting on our other offers", I say see ya, nice knowing ya.

Which just goes back to my Mark Recchi comparison - future HOFer, then-3-time-Cup-winner, very comparable stats, very comparable role, 1/3 of the salary.

I have NO PROBLEM with what Jagr did. It's just not, to me, the move of a player who "wants to win" more than "wants a contract".

[Vanflyer]

or he simply dropped the ball and screwed up.

How in the world do you do that? You have had nearly two months since you had anything operational regarding on-ice hockey. You ONLY job for those two months is to shore up your scouting reports for the draft and get your free agency ducks all in a row.

Regardless of what happens the rest of the summer, a big effing F- for Homer this summer.