flyercanuck Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 We could definitely use some help up front - particularly on the top line - but I think help on the blue line is a bigger problem. You can make up for a lack of scoring with a good defensive system, especially if you have a good goalie. That leads me to my next point. Who exactly do we have on defense that is of any real value? Who would anyone actually want from our defensive corps? The Oilers have been hot for Coburn for a couple of years now. There was rumours they might have given up their first last year if it didn't end up a top ten pick (which it did) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 i think last nights loss was because the Hawks are a better team, they have more talent. Only in the movies does hard work and mediocre skill win. I have posted else where that there is no or bad chemistry on the top line this year, for whatever reason. Hartnell seems super duper ineffective, Voracek has been passing to no one and defenders sticks rather than shooting . Giroux tries to stick handle past 3 guys at time or when he needs a blow faces the half wall and gets the **** kicked out of him. I don't know what has changed,from last year but i know the lack of effectiveness those guys are displaying is hard to watch. when i watch, i see guys selling out to make plays, i see effort all over the ice, i don't see Danny Briere admiring his linemate's efforts to backcheck. I see guys trying to play too fast & losing their handle, i see little guys getting knocked off the puck, i see guys rushing the puck 3 across so they can be defended by one guy. the Hawks game was an outlier, they're the best team in the league and have better talent at every position for their top 15 players. The Flyers played well for 20 minutes, did they stop trying ? if you say yes, you are being intellectually dishonest, their lack of talent caught up with them the Hawks could do things better and faster. who saw something different ? I stand by my statement the "no heart " argument is weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 You might have seen this story as it's gotten national headlines, but some kid just got off with killing 4 people in a DUI case with a slap on the wrist. Not 1, but 4 people are dead because of this kid. His lawyers put for the defense that he was raised in a rich family, essentially spoiled, and didn't know getting behind the wheel drunk was wrong. He's 16., not 5. These guys are grown men. They're young men, but they're men. If they don't know that you have to try hard and put forth a good effort at work, that's on them, even if management does spoil them. There comes a point you have to be an adult and take responsibility for your own performance. About the first part, that's just sad. As for the second, I agree it's on them. But what's happening where a guy who's worked his butt off his entire life to get where he is decides he doesn't need to anymore? And why does it always seem to happen in Philly? (it doesn't just happen there, but it sure seems to on a regular basis) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Coburn probably has the highest value among our active defensemen.Luke Schenn probably has decent value because of his age (though certainly not JVR-value).Meszaros can get you a middle-round pick (3rd-5th).I think those are the only 3 that might *realistically* get traded.Personally, I think it would be a mistake to trade Coburn. I don't care much about the other two, but I think Luke Schenn will be a solid 2nd pairing defenseman in his career, and every team needs that. Plus, he's young and his brother is here, so I'd keep him too. I think he has more value to the Flyers than what you could get in return.What about Morin or Hagg? They are both unknowns, potentially 2nd pairing defensemen... but rumour is Montreal has a hankering for Morin.Other than that, it's unlikely that Streit ot Timonen will be moved, even though it would be nice to move both of them at the deadline. Depending on the market, you could get a really nice return for Streit. I'm with you. I don't want to move Coburn either. He's not great and drives me nuts at times, but he's homegrown and not a bad 2nd pairing guy (1st if with a legit #1). When he played with Pronger and a younger/better Timonen, I had no problems with him at all. Schenn frustrates me more than Coburn does, but I agree with your assessment of him. I think he could be a contributing defensive d-man and I'm willing to wait it out a little longer with him. You don't think somebody would want Timonen at the deadline? I'm not saying he's worth much, but he's not gonna cost a team anything the closer it gets to the end of the year. He's a FA after the season, right? If I'm a team that is looking for depth, I wouldn't mind having him as a 4, 5, or even 6 with special teams time. I've been dying for the Flyers to do that with him for years instead of running him into the ground, but I get there's not enough depth for that. I don't think there's enough outside the box thinking sometimes. If somebody wants Streit, I'd gladly trade him for a jar of air, but I agree it's unlikely anybody wants him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 As Timonen said before the game, it was a measuring stick game. See where they stack up.Well, as we can all plainly see, that was the difference between a Stanley Cup champion *team* against a random assembly of guys who didn't make the playoffs last year.There's a pretty big difference, I'd say. Maybe if Holmgren could see it and accept it we could draft a Doughty or a Pietrangelo or a Jones or an Ekblad one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 @brelic The Habs really wanted the Flyers pick at the draft to take Morin. It'll be years before we know what we have in him and I figure it'll either be boom or bust. Unless they want to overpay I'd like to see if we could finally develop a...what's it called? Dee-Fence-Mang? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 The Oilers have been hot for Coburn for a couple of years now. There was rumours they might have given up their first last year if it didn't end up a top ten pick (which it did) I like him. I have my issues with him, but I have sort of accepted what he is. It sounds funny to me though that anybody would be high on him. The thing that concerns me if they trade him though is that who is left then? They have practically no depth on D and if we trade the one defenseman who is half decent and isn't too old or overpaid, where does that leave the team in a year or two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 @ FC and Fanatic... I am in the same boat w/ Coburn and would not trade him unless someone is willing to drastically overpay for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 About the first part, that's just sad. As for the second, I agree it's on them. But what's happening where a guy who's worked his butt off his entire life to get where he is decides he doesn't need to anymore? And why does it always seem to happen in Philly? (it doesn't just happen there, but it sure seems to on a regular basis) I know. I wanted to punch something just at the thought of it. Everybody makes mistakes and I don't think everyone to have ever killed someone is a horrible person, but Jesus H. Christ, how do you not send a kid to jail when he's killed 4 people!?! 4!!! I don't know why it is happening here so much in the last few years. My only guess is maybe some of these kids - it does seem to be mostly young players it's happening with - are believing their own hype a little? With the past success growing up and new exposure to wealth? I can fault the organization for throwing a little too much money and responsibility at some of them too soon, but it's up to a player how he handles that. I also wonder if it's simply adjusting to a higher level of play? The best kid on JV doesn't come right up to varsity and kick ass immediately in all cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I've said for years...I wouldn't trade him unless someone blows me away with an offer. He's big and skates well. He's far from great but seems to have something in him that makes him really good on occasion. That and we're not the only team with the "grass is greener" mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 similar to a Carle situation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 You don't think somebody would want Timonen at the deadline? I'm not saying he's worth much, but he's not gonna cost a team anything the closer it gets to the end of the year. He's a FA after the season, right? If I'm a team that is looking for depth, I wouldn't mind having him as a 4, 5, or even 6 with special teams time. I've been dying for the Flyers to do that with him for years instead of running him into the ground, i do, a team with 2 great top pairings looking to solidify their blue line for the tournament is the perfect place for Timmonen to end his career. he would be an excellent 5.6 on a great team and he'd be as you said , effective in the reduced minutes role. the question is what come back to us for him ? picks , a top prospect forward , a not quite ready for prime time defender ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I hate to say it but if I were Homer I would be putting the "for sale" sign around Streit's neck if his play does not turn around. I literally would ask for a bag of pucks but not sure anyone would be interested - and if MS would waive his NTC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 i do, a team with 2 great top pairings looking to solidify their blue line for the tournament is the perfect place for Timmonen to end his career. he would be an excellent 5.6 on a great team and he'd be as you said , effective in the reduced minutes role. the question is what come back to us for him ? picks , a top prospect forward , a not quite ready for prime time defender ? I agree with ya. I don't think he could get you much, but it would be something towards building the future, and a nice thing to do for him in what could be his last year. As far as him as a 5 or 6, I just don't get why teams don't think outside the box more often. I think football probably does it the most. I've seen plenty of teams who will have a two or three-headed monster in the backfield or just try unexpected plays/schemes more often. But hockey and baseball are insanely rigid and predictable at times. I think it is beyond stupid that pitchers essentially give up on hitting once they hit a certain age. Or if I'm a GM of a team that's definitely going to be in the PO (not a bubble team) and just looking for some depth, I'd take a chance on Timonen in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I've said for years...I wouldn't trade him unless someone blows me away with an offer. He's big and skates well. He's far from great but seems to have something in him that makes him really good on occasion. That and we're not the only team with the "grass is greener" mentality. Yeah you would have to do it if somebody was stupid enough to overpay for him. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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