flyercanuck Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I think the trade Letang train left the station when the signed him to the big contract. Remember you're talking to a Flyers fan here....those longterm contracts mean you're outa here to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 @nossagog How'd Iginla work out for you guys? Not as good as Hossa. Not nearly as good as Bill Guerin. Way better than Ponikarovsky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 @B21 I'd be curious to see how many sellers have benefitted more than buyers at the trade deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 @B21 I'd be curious to see how many sellers have benefitted more than buyers at the trade deadline. Fair question. I guess it is how you define "benefitted". Hossa didn't win a Cup for the Pens but he certainly helped them reach their first Cup finals in almost 20 years. Nothing they gave up (2 young players/2 1sts) amounted to anything. Winner: Pens Guerin was Crosby's winger on a Cup winning team. The Isles traded that 3rd round pick in 2009 to the Yotes for a 3rd round pick in 2010 and took....JasonClark? Winner: Pens Luca Caputi was traded for Ponikarovsky. Ponikarovsky was a bust here. Caputi is in the 2nd level Swedish league. Push. Iginla didn't do much here and they likely would have made the ECF w/o him (ditto Morrow and Murray). If Joe Morrow pans out in Boston or the 1st round pick the Flames got (they took Morgan Klimchuk) turns into a solid NHLer then the Pens lose this. For now though - push. My hunch is the buyer usually gets the better end of the deal though not always. As far as the Pens that seems to be the case - even when the Pens were the sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 @B21 To me you make those deals to win a cup (I'm not just talking about the Pens, but the entire league) Trading for a 27 year old who has 2 years left and then re-signs with your team is fine and dandy. I'm talking about the rental type deals where one team acquires a player who ends up playing the regular and postseason out and moves on. Rarely do those type of move put the team "over the top". I'm too lazy to look up all the trades, but I'm pretty sure Philly traded picks that ended up being decent NHLers for rentals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 @B21 To me you make those deals to win a cup (I'm not just talking about the Pens, but the entire league) Trading for a 27 year old who has 2 years left and then re-signs with your team is fine and dandy. I'm talking about the rental type deals where one team acquires a player who ends up playing the regular and postseason out and moves on. Rarely do those type of move put the team "over the top". I'm too lazy to look up all the trades, but I'm pretty sure Philly traded picks that ended up being decent NHLers for rentals. Well if your measurement is Cup or bust - yes. Hardly any of those deals work. But if you feel they make a team better and what was given up doesn't amount to anything? To me that's a "win" for the buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 If you trade a 1st and that team picks poorly, doesn't mean your team would have picked that guy. If it turns out to be a weak draft, then it's no big deal. But even a late 1st could have turned into a Duncan Keith or a Shea Weber, among many many others. What Atlanta or the Leafs thought were wise first round picks aren't the same as what Philly or Pittsburgh think are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 If you trade a 1st and that team picks poorly, doesn't mean your team would have picked that guy. If it turns out to be a weak draft, then it's no big deal. But even a late 1st could have turned into a Duncan Keith or a Shea Weber, among many many others. What Atlanta or the Leafs thought were wise first round picks aren't the same as what Philly or Pittsburgh think are. True but that's a lot more speculative than the risk the buyer takes that "Player X" will improve my team. I like my odds as a buyer in these cases moreso than hanging on to my picks and "hoping" they turn into a Weber or a Keith and hoping my team is good enough for a Cup run "as is". And I don't view "nothing short of a Cup" as the sole barometer either. Take the Guerin trade. Sure - they won a Cup. Guerin was a big part of it. But what if Fleury had impoded in the Finals and they lost? Does that mean the Guerin trade was a failure? Not at all. That's why I feel the Hossa trade was a win, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I agree you have to weigh what was traded away as much if not more than whether you won the Cup or not. Hossa was a definite win as even though they lost that Cup final, it got them experience to go back and win it the following year. Iginla? Definitely depends on the picks traded turning into something. A proven commodity was gained if just for a short time, and an as yet unproven one was lost. The wait and see game. Sure we might have drafted differently, but that means we might have drafted worse too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Okay, its only one game, but if the Canadians game tonight was any indication, the Pens need to make a decision on defense based on their estimation of Martin and Letang's injuries. They played very sloppy, and had no confidence playing the puck in their own zone. Teams are going to forecheck hard and eat them up. Reading the following article, I'm thinkking we won't see Letang at all this year. http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/10529087/kris-letang-pittsburgh-penguins-says-there-high-chance-return-normal-stroke Edited February 28, 2014 by nossagog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 @nossagog Don't count the first game back as to how your team will play out the season (MULLIGAN!) God knows we Flyer fans aren't. I already mentioned the Pens could make a young for veteran defenceman trade. You guys have a wealth of good young prospects on the blueline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 @nossagog Don't count the first game back as to how your team will play out the season (MULLIGAN!) God knows we Flyer fans aren't. I already mentioned the Pens could make a young for veteran defenceman trade. You guys have a wealth of good young prospects on the blueline.Normally I would not take the game that seriously, but earlier in the season with both Martin and Letang out I had mentioned the same thing. WIthout both of them, the defense was very hard pressed during transitioning from defense to offense. Plus Niskanen, although he played great at that point, is not a top powerplay point man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Okay, its only one game, but if the Canadians game tonight was any indication, the Pens need to make a decision on defense based on their estimation of Martin and Letang's injuries. They played very sloppy, and had no confidence playing the puck in their own zone. Teams are going to forecheck hard and eat them up. Reading the following article, I'm thinkking we won't see Letang at all this year. http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/10529087/kris-letang-pittsburgh-penguins-says-there-high-chance-return-normal-stroke I agree with you. I don't think he plays again this year. The afternoon drive show hosts on The Fan were talking about that press confernece was surreal. I think thisstatement from Letang puts it all into persective. It was the morning of Jan. 29. Letang’s wife, Catherine, found the Penguins defenseman on the floor in their home. He was conscious, but “I was just not able to function,” he recalled He also admitted that he still has sypmtons. Forge this year. Get well and come back next year at 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 @nossagog Ya, pretty hard to overcome losing your top 2 defencemen. And a top 6 winger...or two. You're always welcome to adopt us Flyer fans battle cry...."There's always next year!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 @nossagog Ya, pretty hard to overcome losing your top 2 defencemen. And a top 6 winger...or two. You're always welcome to adopt us Flyer fans battle cry...."There's always next year!"I thought it was "Long Term Contracts for Everyone!" @B21The other thing of note is he's still only allowed to do light exercise without weights, which is probably minimal bike work. He is a fitness freak with his workouts. Its going to be a long road back to game shape for him alone. Add taking the precautions of the medical staff due to this, and I don't think they'll chance it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 @nossagog Actually, Niskanen was outscoring all other Pens defensemen on the power play. He was in the scoring race for defensemen until Letang returned and Niskanen was moved back to the back seat. Bylsma was using him in front of Martin after Martin was stumbling too much with the power play time. I think the first game back is a wash. They were playing a Habs team that already had a game to get their legs under them, and that nullified any back to back games advantage you'd normally see. The sloppiness on defense is always the sign of those long breaks. THey'll bring it together soon. Maybe even tomorrow night against the Hawks. If they don't, they may take a shelling tomorrow night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 @nossagog Actually, Niskanen was outscoring all other Pens defensemen on the power play. He was in the scoring race for defensemen until Letang returned and Niskanen was moved back to the back seat. Bylsma was using him in front of Martin after Martin was stumbling too much with the power play time. I think the first game back is a wash. They were playing a Habs team that already had a game to get their legs under them, and that nullified any back to back games advantage you'd normally see. The sloppiness on defense is always the sign of those long breaks. THey'll bring it together soon. Maybe even tomorrow night against the Hawks. If they don't, they may take a shelling tomorrow night. We'll see how they play tomorrow night. I don't have a problem losing games, but when you play bad, toss pucks where everyone knows you shouldn't and generally look lost in your own zone, there's a problem. If they look better tomorrow night, I'll forget all about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Pens reportedly had representatives at the Devils game on the 27th... wonder why? Jagr perhaps? Hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Pens reportedly had representatives at the Devils game on the 27th... wonder why? Jagr perhaps? Hmm... Please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 They need to make a decision on Despres here. Either he's part of the future or not. He doesn't seem to be in coach Dan's favor, and if that's the case let's use him as part of any trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 @B21Please as in you want him or please as in gimme a break? @nossagogI agree. Bortuzzo is getting the ice time but initial reports were to allow Depres to work in his commitment to D in the AHL. Now he's supposedly done that. So where does he stand?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 @B21Please as in you want him or please as in gimme a break?@nossagogI agree. Bortuzzo is getting the ice time but initial reports were to allow Depres to work in his commitment to D in the AHL. Now he's supposedly done that. So where does he stand??I have always liked Despres game, I would rather see him in the lineup rather than Bortuzzo, but alas my wants are not whats important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 @B21Please as in you want him or please as in gimme a break? "Please" as in I want him. I think he would be a great fit on Crosby's line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I have always liked Despres game, I would rather see him in the lineup rather than Bortuzzo, but alas my wants are not whats important. Couldn't agree more. Depres > Bortuzzo > Engelland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Agree on Depres but I'll give Bortuzzo some credit lately. He's really been physical in our zone trying to establish a presence. Still learning though as everyone can see. As for Jagr he might just be perfect for Sid's wing IF he can stay up. He's not fast anymore but was always smart, and that sometimes trumps speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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