Trade deadline talk

[nossagog]

March 5th is the trade deadline, what will Ray do this year. Shero has never been shy at the deadline, and has in recent years has gone big to make a run at the cup. 

 

Funny thing, many of those trades(Iginla,Hossa ..) have been criticized as mortgaging the future.  But here we sit and the Pens are still loaded with young talent.  On that account, Shero has done well.

 

So here we are this year, what are the needs, what is Ray thinking. Bottom two lines have grinders a plenty, so I don't think were going to go for depth.

 

On defense we're at a glut, really, with Martin,Orpik,Letang, Matta, Scuderi, Niskanen, Engelland, Bortozzo, Despres.  Nine NHL ready defensemen.  Orpik, Niskanen and Engelland are FA's after the season.  They still have Sammulason, Doumolin and Harrington with the Baby Pens. Engelland is finding a pretty good niche also playing as a physical presence on the fourth line, I think that the Pens will make a play to keep him. 

 

Top line could use a wing for Kunitz and Crosby. A merry go round of players are being used to attempt to fill the void that was Dupuis.   Duper's was never a pure scorer, but the grinder that dug the puck out for Crosby and Kunitz, and was great defensively.  I think this is the only "real" need that Shero will look to fill.

 

Each year at the deadline, Shero has looked for someone on that wing.  I'd like to see a pure scorer.   Bennet will come back soon, will HE be the next guy to try on Sid's wing.  I liked the way that he played with Geno, but I don't think Coach Dan would break up Neal-Malkin-Jokinen.   Bennet is more of an offensive player than defensive, so he won't really fit on the bottom six.

 

With current players, here is what the playoff lineup could look like:

Kunitz-Crosby-Bennet/trade

Neal-Malkin-Jokinin

Glass-Sutter-Megna

Pyatt-Adams-Engelland/grinderofchoice

 

No worry on the PP.   Dupuis was a big loss on the PK.  Currently have been using Adams,Sutter, Glass, and Kunitz, yes I said Kunitz on the PK.  Sid with some time there also but I think there is still some feeling out here.

 

So who's available?   First let's eliminate who's not.  Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Kunitz Matta and Fleury  Can't see any of those moving.  Kills me to put Fleury there, but I just don't see a change in goal on a winning team at this time of year, no matter what people think of his playoff failings. Sadly, I think that Letang is on the Pens list as not trading, I dream of what we could do if we traded him away.

 

Defensively, I don't think Martin is going anywhere, or Scuderi. The biggest chances of trade are probably Orpik or Niskanen being that they are FA's next year, or Bortozzo/ Depres.  I'm hoping they keep Despres, I still see a future there. As I said, if they are looking BIG trade, let's float Letang out there.  

 

Offensively, I don't see them moving Bennet or Megna, I think that their upside is great. But of he rest of the forwards?    Adams, Glass and Sutter are probably safe due to their defensive usage on the PK, and Vitale is out there too. Jokinin is maybe safe, he started slow but has been playing well with Geno.   But what else do they have that someone would want?  Nothing of real value.

 

So from the trade worth point of view, its the Pens depth on defense that will draw attention.  From the Pens standpoint, gotta look to the future.  They will probably no resign one or both of Orpik/Niskanen next year.  Do you let them go FA for nothing, or move them now.   I say make your choice now on which one you want, and toss the other in the trade waters and see what happens.  My preference(and prediction)? Thanks for the memories Brooksie, good luck with your new team out west.

 

If Shero wants to go BIG, let's listen to offers for Letang.  Really, he is NOT playing at a level that is going to deserve that $7M contract next year.  Deal Letang and use that money for a TOP winger for Crosby's line and spread a few raises for a few grinders.  I don't think he event has a limited trade clause.

 

 

Only time will tell. As I said, I think its a top line wing or nothing this year.  Someone on defense will be gone, its a matter of who.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Polaris922]

@nossagog

Letang for Moulson & Ott?

Letang for Heatley?

Who would you like to see?

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

 

 I'd love to see you guys trade Letang for Heatley.....seriously, you could do much better than that.

[nossagog]

@nossagog

Letang for Moulson & Ott?

Letang for Heatley?

Who would you like to see?

 

 

I'd listen to talk in regards to Moulson, as long as we had the opportunity to talk to him and his agent BEFORE the trade to agree to a contract extension right away. I don't want to trade him away as a rental.    Buffalo also has alot of picks too. 

 

Same would go for someone like Vanek, but he probably wants too much. Maybe the same with Heatly but I'm not sure I'd want him.

 

I'd want someone who I could lock in for $5.5M or so for 4 or 5 years. If you couple that with letting Orpik go, and you have a net Cap gain of $4.5M.   You could spread that around and probably keep Niskanen, Sutter and maybe Jokinen here.  That would give you as a start:

Martin/Skuderi

Matta/Niskanen

Bortozzo, Depres   and possibly Engelland

 

Then this would be doable:

Kunitz-Crosby-Moulson

Neal-Malkin-Bennet

Megna-Sutter-Dupuis

Glass-Adams-???   or whatever grinders they want to sign

 

They could let Vokoun walk also and keep Zatkoff as the backup and save another $1.5M

Edited February 1, 2014 by nossagog

[B21]

@nossagog

 

I'll start with their needs (in order of most needed)...

 

1) 3rd line winger...

2) 1st line winger...

3) Back-Up goalie...

 

Let's face it - you can stick just about anyone alongside Crosby and Kunitz and that lines works. Bennett. Megna. Kobasew. Pylon.  The 3rd line is where depth is lacking. It wouldn't cost much (mid-round pick or mid-level prospect) to get a player who fits that role and who is a rental.  The problem is the Pens don't have the cap space right now to do that.

 

I don't deal Niskanen. He's having way to good a year and this being the final year of his deal, we won't get fair value in return. I want to bring him back. 

 

The player that makes the most "sense" to move now is Letang.  The depth on D is there. His limited NTC does not kick in until next year.  And...while I think our cap situation is OK for next year with Letang, it gets a whole lot better taking his $7,000,000+ off the books on top of a serious haul in return.

 

I wouldn't do it - at least not during the season.  But I could understand the rationale if it were done.

 

The odd thing about trading Letang is that is usually the kind of move a rebuilding team makes....trading a high priced established player for some combination of draft picks and younger, less expensive players with upside.  The other team is almost always a contender and 1) we don't want to face Letang in the ECF or SCF and 2) I don't want the 1st round picks coming back to be late 1st round picks.

 

So we need a trading partner that is close to contention (or always thinks they are), that needs an offensive minded d-man and will have the forwards and picks to send back in return. Sound like anyone we know?

 

At the end of the day, I think this is the year we don't see a major move.

[nossagog]

@B21

It would be a BIG gamble to trade Letang, if he all of a sudden goes back to Norris standards, then it will always be looked at as a bad trade.  But you sometimes have to take chances.

 

What exactly are you looking at for a third liner.  Got plenty of grinders.  I'd almost like to see them try Pyatt with Sutter and Glass. 

[Polaris922]

@flyercanuck

Heatley is a proven goal scorer. He's been a mess in recent years, but he has some speed and with a guy like Crosby feeding him pucks? Gamble sure.. But it could pay big dividends.

@B21

@nossagog

Absolutely don't want him in our conference so send him West if you're going to send him.

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

 

 I'm sure Heatley could fill the net playing with Crosby. But he's gone from scoring 50+ to 40 to 30s to 20s to 10s lately. He's a decent playoff performer, but is also 7 years older than Letang...if that matters to you (it would to me)

[B21]

@B21

It would be a BIG gamble to trade Letang, if he all of a sudden goes back to Norris standards, then it will always be looked at as a bad trade.  But you sometimes have to take chances.

 

What exactly are you looking at for a third liner.  Got plenty of grinders.  I'd almost like to see them try Pyatt with Sutter and Glass. 

 

Couldn't agree more on Letang and the only reason I even think of doing it is because that is where the organizations's depth lies.  Personally, I wouldn't.  But if the return was right?  I would not have a problem with it.

 

As for the 3rd line? Just a little more scoring and some size.  Glass is only on the 3rd line out of necessity.  I like Pyatt - he's been OK - but I would like to someone more capable of finishing. Sutter is not much of a banger.  Sure - we have grinders. Small ones.

[nossagog]

@nossagog

 

I'll start with their needs (in order of most needed)...

 

1) 3rd line winger...

2) 1st line winger...

3) Back-Up goalie...

 

Let's face it - you can stick just about anyone alongside Crosby and Kunitz and that lines works. Bennett. Megna. Kobasew. Pylon.  The 3rd line is where depth is lacking. It wouldn't cost much (mid-round pick or mid-level prospect) to get a player who fits that role and who is a rental.  The problem is the Pens don't have the cap space right now to do that.

 

 

I've been thinking more about your statement above, And I partially agree with it. I've said the same thing at times.   Heck, look at Dupuis, he's not the greatest of wingers, his nickname in my house is "Stone Hands", but he still scores goals. But part of that is due to the fact that he's played along with Crosby for years, and they know each others games.   Toss any old player out there, like Tanner Glass, yes it was Tanner Friggin Glass starting on the first line last night, and its another story.

 

The last few games has seen Sill, Glass, and Gibbons oh his wing.  And its showing. Some people are saying Sid looks off coming up to the olympic break, but I think part of his lines struggles is the lack of stability at his wing position.  If they're not going to deal, then they need to put someone there and KEEP him there.  Rotating wingers is NOT working,  who's next out there on the first line, Craig Adams?

 

Without a better option on his wing, I think teams will load up on Geno's line, and take their chances with Crosby's. The Top line right now is not so scary.

[B21]

I've been thinking more about your statement above, And I partially agree with it. I've said the same thing at times.   Heck, look at Dupuis, he's not the greatest of wingers, his nickname in my house is "Stone Hands", but he still scores goals. But part of that is due to the fact that he's played along with Crosby for years, and they know each others games.   Toss any old player out there, like Tanner Glass, yes it was Tanner Friggin Glass starting on the first line last night, and its another story.

 

The last few games has seen Sill, Glass, and Gibbons oh his wing.  And its showing. Some people are saying Sid looks off coming up to the olympic break, but I think part of his lines struggles is the lack of stability at his wing position.  If they're not going to deal, then they need to put someone there and KEEP him there.  Rotating wingers is NOT working,  who's next out there on the first line, Craig Adams?

 

Without a better option on his wing, I think teams will load up on Geno's line, and take their chances with Crosby's. The Top line right now is not so scary.

 

Off? Not sure I'd buy that. He'd leading the league in points after all. 

 

I'd love a better winger...but I just don't see it happening with our lack of cap space.  For now, think some scoring depth is more important.

[nossagog]

Off? Not sure I'd buy that. He'd leading the league in points after all. 

 

I'd love a better winger...but I just don't see it happening with our lack of cap space.  For now, think some scoring depth is more important.

Well, I think that just by getting Bennet healthy, he'd be a better option than what they have now.  Bennet was originally slotted on Malkin's line, but with Jokinen fitting in there, Beau may work out well with Sid. 

[jammer2]

@nossagog  I get sick everytime you guys post the embarrassment of richs on defense. The one guy I would not trade is Harrington. I love that guys game, so steady and poised. With his size, you wish he had a bit more of a mean streak, but he is the future for the Pens as far as stay at home d-man who can also move the puck up quickly.

 

 If it's Letang who gets a new zip code, the return has to be a legit, unquestioned young star.

[nossagog]

@nossagog  I get sick everytime you guys post the embarrassment of richs on defense. The one guy I would not trade is Harrington. I love that guys game, so steady and poised. With his size, you wish he had a bit more of a mean streak, but he is the future for the Pens as far as stay at home d-man who can also move the puck up quickly.

 

 If it's Letang who gets a new zip code, the return has to be a legit, unquestioned young star.

 

Sorry Jammer, the fact that we have never had depth like this kind of gets us Pens fans a little giddy.  I'm not gloating or anything, it just the fact at the moment and I think that they need to make sure that the get something of it and not let some of the young talent go without getting something back.

Edited February 2, 2014 by nossagog

[B21]

Well, I think that just by getting Bennet healthy, he'd be a better option than what they have now.  Bennet was originally slotted on Malkin's line, but with Jokinen fitting in there, Beau may work out well with Sid. 

 

Part of the reason why I think there won't be major moves. Getting healthy is almost like adding those players at the deadline...especially the ones that have been out most of the year.  Now watch Bylsma put Bennett on the 3rd line. :blink:

 

Ideally, once all hands are on deck, the lines "should" look something like this...

 

Kunitz/Crosby/Bennett

Neal/Malkin/Jokkinen

Pyatt/Sutter/AHLer or Trade

Adams/Vitale/Glass

 

To me, Ebbet, Gibbons, Meygna, Kobasew, Harry Z, Conner - all cut from the same cloth and offer roughly the same skill set on that 3rd (or 4th) line.

 

Then there's the option of putting Engelland on the 4th line and moving Glass up.

 

I'll tell you one move I'd try real hard to make happen if I were Shero....Jagr.  To play on Sid's line.  I can live with Bennett on the 3rd line if that happens.  Jags gets once last chance to make a run for a Cup in the place where it all began.  Talk about a storyline.

 

Kunitz/Crosby/Jagr

Neal/Malkin/Jokkinen

Pyatt/Sutter/Bennett

Adams/Vitale/Glass

 

Pretty nice line-up, eh?

[jammer2]

@B21  I'm wondering what Jagr's value would be at the trade deadline. I thought he might be done after the poor showing in last years playoff run for the Bruins, but he is literally carrying the Devils on his back some nights. Could he be worth a 1st rounder, even at his age and knowing he will be a rental for the playoffs? It's almost getting to the point where the team ponying up the coin for his contract is not only paying for one year of service, they are paying for a draft pick at the deadline also, pretty nice value.

[B21]

@B21  I'm wondering what Jagr's value would be at the trade deadline. I thought he might be done after the poor showing in last years playoff run for the Bruins, but he is literally carrying the Devils on his back some nights. Could he be worth a 1st rounder, even at his age and knowing he will be a rental for the playoffs? It's almost getting to the point where the team ponying up the coin for his contract is not only paying for one year of service, they are paying for a draft pick at the deadline also, pretty nice value.

 

I think he would be worth a 1st round pick and I would happily give up one to get him.  Likely a late 1st rounder anyway right?  The Devils are still only 2 points out of a playoff spot as of today though.

[B21]

Actually, once the dust settles there would be room for Jagr.  His cap hit os $2,000,000. So - per Cap Geek - this line-up....

 

Kunitz/Crosby/Jagr

Neal/Malkin/Jokkinen

Pyatt/Sutter/Bennett

Adams/Vitale/Glass

 

Orpik/Martin

Scuderi/Letang

Maatta/Niskanen

 

Bortuzzo (F)/Engelland (F/D)

 

Fleury

Zatkoff

 

Dupuis/Vokoun - LTIR

 

....is $62,615,000. If I did the calculation right....which is 50/50 at best.

[Polaris922]

@B21

I'll take it!

[B21]

@B21

I'll take it!

 

Damn. I'm starting to get all emotional thinking about it....

 

[Polaris922]

@B21

That's Hextall... He could've shot from the blue line and scored.

[nossagog]

To me, Ebbet, Gibbons, Megna, Kobasew, Harry Z, Conner - all cut from the same cloth and offer roughly the same skill set on that 3rd (or 4th) line.

I don't know, I really like what I see with Megna. I think he may be the fastest player on the time coming up ice, he's been flying past defenders on the dump ins. I would love to see him a little with Sid, I think with his speed and Crosby's passes, he could get behind the defense.

Oh, and all the Jagr talk, count me out. Jagr wants the puck on his stick too much to dangle and deek, he and Sid I don't think would work well together.

Edited February 3, 2014 by nossagog

[Polaris922]

I like Megna too, but Gibbons has to be the fastest I've seen in some time. The guy absolutely flies.

[B21]

I don't know, I really like what I see with Megna. I think he may be the fastest player on the time coming up ice, he's been flying past defenders on the dump ins. I would love to see him a little with Sid, I think with his speed and Crosby's passes, he could get behind the defense.

Oh, and all the Jagr talk, count me out. Jagr wants the puck on his stick too much to dangle and deek, he and Sid I don't think would work well together.

 

Meh.  I like Megna. I don't think he hurts you but on the top line?  I'd rather see Bennett there when he's healthy.  Or Jagr. :-)

[Polaris922]

@B21

I'd prefer Bennett too... But till he's back...

As for Jagr... That's a tough one. He's scoring we'll for Jersey, but I don't know that they're the speed game Crosby is. May prove an interesting experiment though if the price is right.