Told ya...!

[WingNut722]

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so!

 

I've been one of very few, if any, supporters of Stephen Weiss on this forum, saying that the man really hasn't had too much opportunity to show what he can do, since he's been injured so often.

 

Two goals in a big win last night against the Senators.  Neither goal was very pretty or outstanding, but they both still count for one point apiece.  However, those goals only went in because Weiss was in the play, with his stick on the ice, and capitalized on both chances...exactly what those third and fourth line guys need to do.  Save the cute highlight real goals for Datsyuk and Zetterberg and rack up the points on those dirty, blue-collar, working-man goals.

 

A huge weight is off his shoulders now, and I think he'll start seeing some more ice time.  I doubt very much that he'll be sent down once Datsyuk returns.  More likely, we'll see Joaquim Andersson hit the bricks. 

[yave1964]

Wonderful!

Let me be clear, I have considered Weiss a bust due to health issues, not to lack of talent.

Mickey Redmond last night said that Babs informed Weiss that the only opening was on the third line as a winger and he would give Weiss a chance at it, that it would not be handed to him that he would have to earn it. Looking good so far playing alongside of Jurco and Helm. @WingNut722 you have been giving Weiss props, it is good to see him earning his paycheck.

NOW.

Lets assume that Weiss is THIS Weiss, and that he cements his position on the wing playing alongside of Helm. It creates a bit of a conundrum among the forwards once Pavel comes back.

Top six, Franzen, Datsyuk, Hank, Gus, Tatar and Abdelkader are the top six and doing a fine job.

That leaves Helm, Weiss and lets say Jurco on the third line. Plenty of opportunity for secondary scoring and Helm capable of working the PK. Very acceptable.

The fourth line of Andersson, Miller and Glendeding has done a fine job, bordering on outstanding. I agree, Andersson has been the weak link but all three have killed penalties and did everything asked of them.

That leaves the big Irishman, Riley Sheahan.

He has to play, he has to play 14 or 15 minutes a night, all situations. So that leaves two people on the bubble.

Jurco, because he has options or Andersson.

Jurco is who I would ship out, he is still raw, sending him to Grand Rapids until an opening occurs and keeping the fourth line intact would be ideal, with Sheahan playing the middle between Weiss and Helm. Weiss showed a willingness to crash the net last night, with big boy Sheahan and blazing speed from Helm, i could see them developing into one of the top third lines in the game.

And don't forget, Hank, Mule, Pavel, Weiss, all have a history of injuries. Releasing Andersson, having someone claim him on waivers leaves us with playing Cleary if/when someone gets hurt. Instead, say Weiss reagravates his groin or Pavel gets nicked up and misses a few games you recall Jurco. He would bust his butt once recalled.

So my lines:

Nyquist Zetterberg Franzen

Tatar Pavel Abdelkader

Weiss Sheahan Helm

Miller Glendening Andersson

Cleary on the bench

Jurco in the Wings

[WingNut722]

Good synopsis @yave1964

 

But here's the way I see it.  

 

Andersson has never been a real strong competitor, where as Jurco has had several bright spots in his still-young career.  While Jurco does have the option of being sent down I-96, I don't ever see a need to do that.  Bringing back Datsyuk, a center, will create a need to release another center.  Your assessment of injuries is spot-on, however, Datsyuk, Sheahan, Helm, Glendening and Weiss are all centers, with Weiss clearly being sufficient at pulling wing duty.  In the event that one of them goes down, we still have four capable centers left.  

 

Having Cleary as a backup isn't the best prospect in any situation, and losing Nestrasil to Carolina didn't help.  However, Anthony Mantha is coming along as is Teemu Pulkkinen.  Both are wingers, but again, without Andersson, we have five capable centers already (five and a half if you count Franzen, who can play it in a desperate situation).

 

Here are my lines (with everyone healthy)

 

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader

Franzen-Sheahan-Nyquist

Tatar-Helm-Weiss

Jurco-Glendening-Miller

[yave1964]

@WingNut722

Tatar on the third line!!

I just cannot see that, he has developed into a top six, and deserves to play with a top line, IMHO.

Last year, he along with Telly Tubby and Jurco formed a wonderful kid line. Tatar didn't get it going this year until he was moved up, and seems to have found a home with the big boys. I love the idea of Tatar on one line and Nyquist on another giving us a true scorer on both top lines.

Sheahan, when i was drawing out the lines I thought about him on the 4th line and feel he has played well enough to deserve to be on the third line. I see you have him centering the 2nd line, I can see that, but only with injuries. I see him as our '7th forward' to coin a phrase.

[WingNut722]

@yave1964

 

"7th Forward"  Is that like the "19th Hole"? 

 

You're right.  Tatar slipped through my review before I posted that.  He can moved up in favor of Abby moving down.  He just plays very well on a line with Dats and Z.  By playing Dats and Z together, you need a second line center.  Weiss could slide in there if he proves himself with additional success in coming games, (after all, that's why he was signed in the first place) but for now, I just can't see Helm or Glendening taking the job.  

 

Either way, we're arguing over how best to populate third and fourth lines with guys who have played well enough to deserve Top Six billing.  A good problem to have, no?  That's a pretty dangerous third line, against a third defensive pairing.  Rearrange them all you want, I still don't see a space for Andersson.

 

Follow-up question...with Alfredsson ready to announce his retirement, the Wings have money in the bank to go after a right-hand shot to play the point on the PP.  Where do you put him?  If that's the case, both Jurco and Weiss will be once again be fighting for their jobs.    

[flyerrod]

Tatar on the third line!!

I just cannot see that, he has developed into a top six, and deserves to play with a top line, IMHO.

 

Not a big redwing follower but Tartar on the 3rd line would make that more of a 2B line. It also gives you the chance to balance the minutes a little more and take some of the stress off of your aging (but still effective) Datsyuk line.

[yave1964]

@flyerrod

 

 I see the point of that but he has really came into his own playing on a top line. I always thought of him as a 2ns/3rd liner but wow does he have a nose for the net and he crashes it as well as anyone on the club.

 

@WingNut722

 

So with Alfie retiring we have the money to trade for a veteran right handed shot on the blue line, or if it is a lefty at least someone who knows how to run a power play. Money is not the issue, we have top AHL talent to dangle to make it happpen. We need someone to add to the blueline.

 

 My personal choice would be Alex Goligoski.

 

 He has been a 40 point a year man running the point in Dallas who has slipped a bit this year, still playing big minutes but available, Klingberg looks like a future star running the point, Daley has had his moments and now they have added Demers. So Goligoski could be had for a decent prospect/pick combo.

  Jim Nill knows the Wings system, (he oughta he ran our drafts for nearly 20 years) so he would likely be drooling at the chance. The caveat would be that he would have to take Kindl and his salary in return, Kindl isnt really that horrible and Nill would likely be willing to take him off of our hands. That would give us:

 

Kronner    Ericsson

 

Goligoski  Dekeyser

 

Smith        Quincey

 

Lashoff with Ouellet and Sproul nipping at the bit for their shot.

[WingNut722]

@yave1964

 

Without naming any specific NHL player, you'd rather make the move for a D-man?  Personally, I think the defense is actually doing pretty well.  Detroit has the best penalty kill and is currently 3rd in the league in fewest shots allowed per game (26.7), a big indicator of defensive proficiency.  Less impressive but equally important is they rank 9th in fewest goals allowed per game (2.33).  True there's a bit of a weak link in Kindl and Lashoff, but at the same time Ouellet is beginning to make his mark in the NHL.  It will make the three of them work that much harder for the minutes.   

 

I'd rather see that right-hander as a forward and be able to roll four very dangerous lines at any given time.  The power play has now gotten rolling after a slow start.  A right-hander at the point will make it even better.   The Wings keep using a similar power play strategy that was used when Rafalski and Alfredsson were around, and it all gets broken up when a lefty at the point has to catch, regroup, and then spin around to a dominant side just to get a shot off.  

[yave1964]

@WingNut722

Oh absolutely hands down bar none a d-man would top my wish list. I love our forwards, not even including the forgotten man Weiss. Throw in Athanasiou, Mantha, Pulkinnen, ect... down on the farm and I think if anything we have an abundance of forwards if anything.

On defense, you are right they are doing well. Familiarity with each other over the past several years has paid off, i grudgingly give props to Holland in that regard. But truthfully, if we can add a 20 minute d-man who can man the point on the second power play unit we will be in great shape. That is why Goligoski to me, is the best player we could add.

11 of our next 14 are at home. Looking forward to the Wings taking advantage, making hay while the sun shines.

[yave1964]

@WingNut722

Okay Andersson V Jurco.

Jurco is a dynamic player with offensive upside. Negatives are defense and IQ level which he makes up for with skill and speed. His upside is a low end top six, solid third liner.

Andersson is a vanilla boring type, very little offensive ability who plays a solid responsible defensive game. Having him on the team allows for two great P/K combos with Helm and Miller followed by Glendening and Andersson. His on ice vision is poor, but he does the job killing penalties and handling other teams top lines late in a close game.

Truthfully, I would at this point in time the way the roster is composed rather throw Andersson out there every night and allow the big boys a seat on the bench during a P/K so that we could put them in on 5 on 5 or a power play. Long term, Jurco has a bright future, a cocky young kid who Babs loves.

[WingNut722]

@yave1964

 

You make a convincing argument for adding a D-man to the roster as opposed to another forward. However, wouldn't that particular D-man (Goligoski or not) also serve the same purposes you assign to Andersson in your next post?  You're looking to keep a "solid responsible defensive game", particularly on the PK.  It would stand to reason that a "solid responsible defenseman" would fill the bill adequately, and still allow you to keep the cocky young Jurco around on your third line.  Further, in my observations, it seems that Glendening, Helm, and Miller have been the real bright stars among the secondarty penalty killing units, and have certainly outshined Andersson's efforts.

[SpikeDDS]

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so!

 

I've been one of very few, if any, supporters of Stephen Weiss on this forum, saying that the man really hasn't had too much opportunity to show what he can do, since he's been injured so often.

You DID tell me so. I am still eating my words, and they taste fantastic!

I was right on Nyquist at the beginning of last year. I can't be right ALL the time! ;-)

[SpikeDDS]

@yave1964

I'd rather see that right-hander as a forward and be able to roll four very dangerous lines at any given time.  The power play has now gotten rolling after a slow start.  A right-hander at the point will make it even better.   The Wings keep using a similar power play strategy that was used when Rafalski and Alfredsson were around, and it all gets broken up when a lefty at the point has to catch, regroup, and then spin around to a dominant side just to get a shot off.

I'm more with Yave on a righty D-man, but since you are making the argument, who are you thinking would fit well?

[Old School Hockey]

Pretty cool to see folks debating about who to play from the talent pool. It wasn't that long ago some idiots (none of you guys) were saying the Wings are done and wait until Datsyuk and Zetterberg are gone!

[WingNut722]

I'm more with Yave on a righty D-man, but since you are making the argument, who are you thinking would fit well?

 

To be quite honest, I didn't have any one in mind, only because I haven't been able to pay decent attention to any possible acquisitions.  Of course, with a two-year-old at home, I'm more likely to end up watching Doc McStuffins than Doc Emrick.     

[WingNut722]

Pretty cool to see folks debating about who to play from the talent pool. It wasn't that long ago some idiots (none of you guys) were saying the Wings are done and wait until Datsyuk and Zetterberg are gone!

 

Damn right!  None of us would say that!

 

It is kinda of fun to be able to discuss some serious depth on the team.  It's an alarmingly fresh concept.