Is "Resting The Goalie" Overrated?

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

 

 

This question has been in my head for while now.

Going back to last season in fact, when I just happened to listen to a discussion (forgot where) about the importance of finding rest days for your starting goaltender.

 

We all know that goalies are human just like everyone else, and teams have solid backup goaltenders for a reason.

 

But with athletes being about as well conditioned as ever, goaltenders in the NHL in particular, being much larger men than in year's past, and the workload assigned to them as opposed to say, those forwards and defensemen who take poundings on a nightly basis, is it REALLY necessary to limit top flight, top shape NHL goaltenders in the amount of games they play, the consecutive starts, or minutes logged based solely on "hey, our goalie needs rest"?

 

Or is it better to go on a case by case basis, knowing your goaltender, looking at the schedule, looking at the travel, etc and going from there?

 

The NHL is famous for doing things a certain way "because that's the way it's always been done", but we are past a point where many, many things are being re-evaluated in the NHL (some for better, some for worse), and perhaps having designated 'rest time' or days when you "must play" the backup are things of the past.

 

I am not advocating that goaltenders should be run out 82 games out of 82 or anything like that.

Pictured in this thread is Devan Dubnyk of the Minnesota Wild who currently is the poster child for riding a hot goaltender with no breaks in consecutive starts.

 

In fact, if Dubnyk plays the next game against the Rangers, it will be his 36th consecutive start.

 

I typed in another thread that I keep waiting for the 'wheels to fall off' Dubes....it hasn't happened...doesn't look like it will..not from a physical breakdown standpoint anyways.

But then, we haven't reached the post season yet, have we?

 

But anyways, wanting takes from HF forums on goaltender rest.

 

These days is it slightly overrated?

After all, no one calls for top six forwards or top pair defensemen to have "time off", when in fact, I think THEY would benefit more from it, due to the beatings they take, than a goaltender would.

 

Looking at the NHL's stats for TOI and GP for goalies, Braden Holtby, Jonathan Quick, Corey Schneider, Tuuka Rask, Carey Price, Pekka Rinne, and Kari Lehtonen are all at the top in TOI with over 3600 minutes played and 60+ games played...and all have had decent to very good to Vezina quality seasons.

 

Can we see a time when top, in-shape, young goaltenders can play 70 games or so a year and still be fresh for playoff runs?

Or is that maybe taking things a bit too far?

 

Big NHL defensemen and power forwards in the NHL are often looked at as 'Supermen'....but in looking at how many goaltenders have performed in recent seasons in sheer time on ice, I'd have to say that the GOALIES are the real Supermen.

 

And 'resting' them may be a good idea every so often, but it may be FAR from necessary.

 

Thoughts?

[jammer2]

@TropicalFruitGirl26   I've seen this question posted many times in many different forms. Basically, I've found over the years, that it comes down to the individual goalie. Some guys thrive when starting as often as possible, and some wilt under the increased work  load. 

 

 

    One theory I've concocted is, the more "team toughness" you have, the less abuse your goalie takes. If you have wicked fighters to be feared, teams are less likely to take a run an opposing goalie, snow him, or in general....pile on during rebound situations etc. As wild as some goal crease scrambles are....you are naturally a little less involved if Chris Pronger or Shea Weber is staring you in the face. The smaller and less aggressive your d-men are, the more likely opposing players take liberties.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

@TropicalFruitGirl26   I've seen this question posted many times in many different forms. Basically, I've found over the years, that it comes down to the individual goalie. Some guys thrive when starting as often as possible, and some wilt under the increased work  load. 

 

 

    One theory I've concocted is, the more "team toughness" you have, the less abuse your goalie takes. If you have wicked fighters to be feared, teams are less likely to take a run an opposing goalie, snow him, or in general....pile on during rebound situations etc. As wild as some goal crease scrambles are....you are naturally a little less involved if Chris Pronger or Shea Weber is staring you in the face. The smaller and less aggressive your d-men are, the more likely opposing players take liberties.

 

Funny you should say that, was thinking about that the other day with regards to Ben Bishop.

Bolts D ARE big...but not always aggressive, much to my chagrin.

As a result, Ben Bishop finds himself the object of much contact and chicanery.

 

Fortunately, Big Ben has developed an aggressive personality in the crease that sorta reminds me a bit of Ron Hextall, Ed Belfour, or a Tom Barrasso in their primes...and is just as likely to take a shot or three himself at intruders in his crease.

 

But to your point, yea, it probably would help his longevity if the Lightning were a bit more aggressive in front of him.

 

Ben Bishop is a good example of a goalie that, while big and in shape, could benefit from having days off (which the Bolts do, thankfully, because they have a capable backup in Andrei Vasilevskiy), to be as fresh as possible for the playoff run.

 

I tend to agree overall on the 'case by case' basis for goalies.

Will we see in the modern era, a goaltender actually PLAY 70 games?

Could be....like I said, these athletes are bigger, stronger, and better conditioned than ever before.

 

Goalies in particular, where the new standard seems to be 6'5 or greater, are no longer these weird skinny guys standing between pucks and nets.

They are massive giants and some, like Bishop, have a tiny hint of mean streak in them....

[jammer2]

Goalies in particular, where the new standard seems to be 6'5 or greater, are no longer these weird skinny guys standing between pucks and nets.

 

 

 That is a very valid point, and really odd how quickly the change took place. Back in the 70's and 80's....if a goalie was 6 foot, he was considered a bigger than average tender. Now, if a guy is 6 foot, it's a liability....lol....and the whole thing took 2-3 decades, which is pretty quick when you think about it.

 

 Cory Schneider seems to be one of those guys who can and does (and presumably wants to) play 70 games a year. Personally, it appears (from the outside looking in anyways) that he is not as fresh and not as effective.....but don't know his March and April stats to compare.

[radoran]

Cory Schneider seems to be one of those guys who can and does (and presumably wants to) play 70 games a year.

 

He'd better, because the Devils rode Martin Brodeur for 70+ games for a decade straight.

 

I wouldn't use Brodeur as my benchmark for how to treat goalies, however...

 

There isn't a high correlation between guys playing 70+ games and winning in the playoffs. I believe of the top 50 "total games played in a season by a goalie" there are three examples of Cup winners - Brodeur, Parent and Fuhr. Two all-time greats and the backstop for perhaps the all-time great team.

 

I think the conventional wisdom holds for all but the most unconventional players.

 

And I think it's a very valid question to ask if the Wild would be riding Dubnyk this hard if they had a playoff spot pretty well wrapped up already.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

He'd better, because the Devils rode Martin Brodeur for 70+ games for a decade straight.

 

I wouldn't use Brodeur as my benchmark for how to treat goalies, however...

 

There isn't a high correlation between guys playing 70+ games and winning in the playoffs. I believe of the top 50 "total games played in a season by a goalie" there are three examples of Cup winners - Brodeur, Parent and Fuhr. Two all-time greats and the backstop for perhaps the all-time great team.

 

I think the conventional wisdom holds for all but the most unconventional players.

 

And I think it's a very valid question to ask if the Wild would be riding Dubnyk this hard if they had a playoff spot pretty well wrapped up already.

 

Most likely NOT.

 

Wild coach Mike Yeo was asked about giving Darcy Kuemper a start or two between now and the post season and Yeo jokingly said, "I don't dare NOT play Dubnyk".

 

Hmm...why do I get the feeling that wasn't all that much of a joke but rather a veiled nervousness of what might happen if he does replace Dubnyk with Kuemper?

 

Furthermore, he went on to say that he consults with his goalie regularly and Dubnyk tells him he is ready to go everytime and Yeo says he believes him.

So on with Dubes the Wild go.

So far, so good.

 

There is talk now of Dubnyk (a UFA at season's end), staying on as the Wild's starter for next season regardless of what happens in the playoffs....UNLESS, he completely falls apart.

So, in essence, not only is Dubes playing to get his team into the post season, but playing for a contract......so between those things and Coach Yeo not really disputing Dubnyk's needing of 'rest', Dubes sitting out doesn't seem to be an option.

 

Hope Darcy Kuemper is at least playing some shadow goal to stay somewhat in shape.... 

[jammer2]

@TropicalFruitGirl26   One thing that has me more than puzzled....take a gander at Dubnyk's stats...

 

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=62478

 

 

  .he's 28 years old, played a fair amount of NHL games....he showed nothing, not one little hint that *this* type of production was coming. The closest thing to tipping anyone off was a .921 SV% with a rather poor Oilers team. I can only assume that his stats were not solid (honestly, he has some sub .880's SV%..that is stinky) because the teams in front of him were crappy and provided no real support. He is mostly stinky with the Oilers, better with the Yotes and spectacular with a real team like the Wild.