Game #13 - Flyers (4) at Canadiens (5) - Nov 5, 2016 @ 7:00 ET

[mojo1917]

43 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I see this exact same thing.   The foot speed (or lack of) isn't new, but the above is to me.

 

So, excuses being what they are, I'll ask anyway:  Is he out of place on the 2nd line (not in terms of scoring; just belonging) or is he fighting some physical thing they haven't publicized?  I would certainly buy the former, but I'm wondering about the latter.

I dunno Rux, he has made 2c passes and done some pretty wizardly things with the puck, he has a lot of skill, stick handling, and what not, but his shot is meh, his skating is meh... he might not be 2c material.  Maybe he's waiting to "flip the switch" before he starts selling his body out, 82 games is a grind if you're beat to hell by game 50... i don't know, his line is producing, how much of a role does he play in that.

[brelic]

@OccamsRazor

 

I’ll tell you. HEART!!! That want to run through a wall mentality…to do whatever it takes to outplay the other guy.

Exactly. I see that in TK. I see that in Ghost. TK was the best player on the ice against the Habs.

Of course, you can be an excellent NHL player without necessarily having that tenacity. Giroux is an example of a star player who picks his spots - he knows when to expend his energy for maximum result. Couturier could be that way too.

The reality is that in 6 seasons, it hasn’t happened.

 

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, brelic said:

@OccamsRazor

 

I’ll tell you. HEART!!! That want to run through a wall mentality…to do whatever it takes to outplay the other guy.

Exactly. I see that in TK. I see that in Ghost. TK was the best player on the ice against the Habs.

Of course, you can be an excellent NHL player without necessarily having that tenacity. Giroux is an example of a star player who picks his spots - he knows when to expend his energy for maximum result. Couturier could be that way too.

The reality is that in 6 seasons, it hasn’t happened.

 

 

 

 

[icehole]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Ivan has + size,  ++ skating  +++ puck handling skills +++ hockey IQ.

When I watch him I can see where he can be a top pairing guy.  I can, I'm not alone.  He is having trouble with the speed of the NHL , his playing partner is shot, and he's been facing the top lines from some very good teams night in and night out, he's 19 and is doing okay...but if, and i think it will happen, the game slows down for him then his physical attributes can help him to become a top pairing guy who can handle the minutes he's seeing now, better. You have to give a young guy room to grow.  Just because he's lost an edge or made an incredibly stupid pass once in a while doesn't mean he doesn't have "it" defense is the hardest of the positions to play well and at 19 he's doing it in the best league in the world, right off the bat, he's not being shielded with his minutes and who he's playing against,  Only freaks like Ekblad who had a full beard and 3 children at 14 can step in on D and be "the man" . Duncan Keith wasn't "Duncan Keith " in his first 20 games either.  I don't see where having Ivan be the best player in his junior league again promotes the growth we want to see.

 

Couturier has always had "skating concerns" his first step while better isn't very good in today's NHL and he doesn't seem to use his large frame to shield the puck from checkers as I think he should... he's so big, he should be able to fend guys off way better than he does. 

 

As for the NFL , that's a whole different ball of twine. and I've typed too much already,  Let's just say the spread offense doesn't work well when everyone can run sub 4.6 on defense. 

I'll leave it as a possibility that I'm not looking at everything I should with provorov.  My first, semi-unexperied eye just doesn't see anything "special" yet.  There are probably very few players that look special right away, but when you have that player (like we had with Ghost last year), it gives you a secure feeling like you have your guy.  With provorov, I'm unsure.

 

We've been unsure about couturier for 5 years now.  We were almost sure after the first season, but we're still waiting for the breakout.  Maybe if we all just lower our expectations, put him on the third line, replace him with a better 2nd line center, and be happy with a shut down center specialist, we can move on.

[icehole]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

@icehole

So is there a possibility that his skills are just better suited for juniors or other lower leagues? I’m not saying that’s the case because I know he can mature after the age of 19. It just scares me because I do see those skills from TK and other 19 yr olds. I do see those skills from other rookies (Ghost from last year).

That’s the thing - in 13 career NHL games, both Konecny and Provorov have shown more offensive acumen than Couturier has in 6 NHL seasons. Why should we expect that to change?

And the big difference I’ve noticed between Konecny’s game and Couturier’s game is tenacity. Konecny wants that damn puck every single time he’s on the ice, so he does everything he can to get it and make things happen. I have never seen that from Couturier.

 

Bingo!  I've mentioned that before.  

[icehole]

56 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

And you can't teach that.

 

At the end of the day you either have it or you don't.

 

For example not sure if you watch football or the Eagles but the Eagles landed this huge WR with all the tools in the tool shed.

 

He is 6-5 240 pounds. Runs a 4.3 40 yard time. But he don't have that go get attitude you mentioned about TK.

 

I constantly see him just go through the motions and see him not be able to get off press coverage from a 5-10 190 cornerback.

 

WTF???

 

How the f**k are you going to get outmuscled by a guy you out weigh by 50 damn pounds and are bigger than by 7 inches???

 

I'll tell you. HEART!!! That want to run through a wall mentality...to do whatever it takes to outplay the other guy.

 

Dorial Green Beckham doesn't have IT!!! And you can't teach him to want too.

 

Sure you can bitch at him and he may change or a play or two or even a game or two but in the end he will go back to being who he is. Tiger can't change his stripes.

 

And no to go off on this tangent about a football player but it is the way i can describe what i see. Coots (however nowhere as bad as DGB) does show traits of his lack of want to go get it.

 

Some kids these days just don't have that fire burning in them that makes them want to be the best they can be. SUCKS!

Ahhhh yes!  I've been saying this for years.  There's just certain things that you can pick up that will tell you what type of player you have.  I don't remember what game it was, but it was probably 3 or 4 years ago.  There was some sort of scrum and couturier came skating over slowly.  He went up to a guy with his head down and away, and gave him a little cross-check on the hands.  I knew immediately that he was a little timid.  He didnt really want to get involved but he went over because he felt he had to.  A guy with firocity would come over as fast as he can, look the guy right in the eyes, and cross-check him in the chest.

 

I'm not a psychiatrist, but there's definitely a link in personality and play.  Couturier is a really nice, timid guy...and he plays like it.

[brelic]

@icehole

 

 

I’m not a psychiatrist, but there’s definitely a link in personality and play. Couturier is a really nice, timid guy…and he plays like it.

Of course there is! It’s like that with everything in life, right? Confidence and personality traits mean as much, and sometimes more, than a person’s knowledge, experience, and skills.

 

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, icehole said:

We've been unsure about couturier for 5 years now.  We were almost sure after the first season, but we're still waiting for the breakout.  Maybe if we all just lower our expectations, put him on the third line, replace him with a better 2nd line center, and be happy with a shut down center specialist, we can move on.

I think I'm ready for this to happen. He doesn't suck, but I don't see him becoming a Ryan Kessler type either.  Maybe this Rubstov kid from Russia fills the 2c role sooner than later ?