Question About On-Ice Strength When Team Takes Two Bench Minors

[timelydew]

 

If a team takes two bench minor penalties at once (same stoppage), what would happen to on-ice Strength? In USA Hockey, according to the casebook, they are treated as two separate penalties, so two players would serve two minutes each (5-on-3 for two minutes). However, according to the IIHF casebook, teams playing under IIHF rules can have their coach select one player to serve both bench minors, resulting in 5-on-4 play for four minutes.

 

What does the NHL do? I can't find reference to it anywhere at all in the rulebook. For the record, the NHL bench minor rule is almost verbatim of the USA Hockey bench minor rule, so one could infer that they are treated the same, so two men serving two minutes each for a 5-on-3.

 

Can anyone enlighten me further, or openly speculate? An example of two being called at the same stoppage would be a too many men call followed by an unsportsmanlike call before the ensuing faceoff. Pair any two bench minors you like together, though. Just wanted to provide a plausible example. Am I right about 5-on-3 for the NHL?

 

Here's the NHL rule, as it's written, followed by the similar USA Hockey rule, which is why I think I'm right (thanks for reading):

 

NHL: "17.1 Bench Minor Penalty - A bench minor penalty involves the removal from the ice of one player of the team against which the penalty is assessed for a period of two (2) minutes. Any player except a goalkeeper of the team may be designated to serve the penalty by the Manager or Coach through the playing Captain and such player shall take his place on the penalty bench promptly and serve the penalty as if it was a minor penalty imposed upon him."

 

USA: Rule 402 "For a “BENCH MINOR” penalty one player shall be ruled off the ice for a period of two minutes, during which time no substitute shall be permitted. Any non-penalized player of the team who was on the ice at the time of the infraction, except the goalkeeper, may be designated to serve the penalty by the Manager or Coach through the playing captain, and such player shall promptly take his place on the penalty bench."

[timelydew]

Figured I'd give this topic one final tickle, or a final spin, as Pat Sajack (or however you spell his name) might say. Anyone know? If no one answers, I'll take the silence as implying that my supposition is right about the USA Hockey and NHL rules being the same, because I'm arrogant like that.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

On 3/28/2017 at 6:12 PM, timelydew said:

 

If a team takes two bench minor penalties at once (same stoppage), what would happen to on-ice Strength? In USA Hockey, according to the casebook, they are treated as two separate penalties, so two players would serve two minutes each (5-on-3 for two minutes). However, according to the IIHF casebook, teams playing under IIHF rules can have their coach select one player to serve both bench minors, resulting in 5-on-4 play for four minutes.

 

What does the NHL do? I can't find reference to it anywhere at all in the rulebook. For the record, the NHL bench minor rule is almost verbatim of the USA Hockey bench minor rule, so one could infer that they are treated the same, so two men serving two minutes each for a 5-on-3.

 

Can anyone enlighten me further, or openly speculate? An example of two being called at the same stoppage would be a too many men call followed by an unsportsmanlike call before the ensuing faceoff. Pair any two bench minors you like together, though. Just wanted to provide a plausible example. Am I right about 5-on-3 for the NHL?

 

Here's the NHL rule, as it's written, followed by the similar USA Hockey rule, which is why I think I'm right (thanks for reading):

 

NHL: "17.1 Bench Minor Penalty - A bench minor penalty involves the removal from the ice of one player of the team against which the penalty is assessed for a period of two (2) minutes. Any player except a goalkeeper of the team may be designated to serve the penalty by the Manager or Coach through the playing Captain and such player shall take his place on the penalty bench promptly and serve the penalty as if it was a minor penalty imposed upon him."

 

USA: Rule 402 "For a “BENCH MINOR” penalty one player shall be ruled off the ice for a period of two minutes, during which time no substitute shall be permitted. Any non-penalized player of the team who was on the ice at the time of the infraction, except the goalkeeper, may be designated to serve the penalty by the Manager or Coach through the playing captain, and such player shall promptly take his place on the penalty bench."

 

This would be treated as two separate penalties resulting in a 5 on 3.  

[WordsOfWisdom]

4 hours ago, timelydew said:

Figured I'd give this topic one final tickle, or a final spin, as Pat Sajack (or however you spell his name) might say. Anyone know? If no one answers, I'll take the silence as implying that my supposition is right about the USA Hockey and NHL rules being the same, because I'm arrogant like that.

 

I've never seen it happen before in my life, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be a 5-on-3 if a team took two separate bench minor penalties at the same time. I'm just not sure HOW a team can take two bench minor penalties simultaneously because the ONLY bench minor penalty is for TOO MANY MEN and it doesn't matter whether you put 6, 7, 8, or 15 players on the ice at the same time, it's still just one penalty.

 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

9 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I've never seen it happen before in my life, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be a 5-on-3 if a team took two separate bench minor penalties at the same time. I'm just not sure HOW a team can take two bench minor penalties simultaneously because the ONLY bench minor penalty is for TOO MANY MEN and it doesn't matter whether you put 6, 7, 8, or 15 players on the ice at the same time, it's still just one penalty.

 

 

A coach can take a bench minor for arguing a call.  

[timelydew]

13 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

A coach can take a bench minor for arguing a call.  

Bang on. That's the example I provided in the original post.

 

I've been a lifelong hockey fan, but only in the past six months or so have I brushed up on the rules. Every rule, for that matter. It's been a long and arduous process. I've researched relentlessly on Reddit, read rule book after rule book, and generally scoured the internet trying to consolidate all the different governing bodies' rules. I mostly care about the NHL though. I've almost reached the point where I've asked all I can ask. The one nagging one seems to be that delayed offside situation. It's incredible how differently some situations are called and handled, even comparing iihf to the NHL. Learning the rules has aided in my enjoyment of the game, without a doubt. Thanks for your answer.

[hf101]

23 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

A coach can take a bench minor for arguing a call.  

 

It seems more often they are just ejected from the game than given a bench minor.  

 

 

[timelydew]

2 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 

It seems more often they are just ejected from the game than given a bench minor.  

 

 

Fair point, it was just used a hypothetical situation anyhow. Pair a too many men with... a failed or unsustained stick measurement. Haha. The iihf casebook used that example for their dumb rule

[hf101]

1 minute ago, timelydew said:

he iihf casebook used that example for their dumb rule

 

I can't remember the last time I saw a stick measurement infraction.  lol

[timelydew]

28 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 

I can't remember the last time I saw a stick measurement infraction.  lol

Nor can I. The one most would think back to is the 1993 Final where the Kings took one late in game one..  or two, but I think one. It cost them early momentum in that series for sure.

 

As for the coach getting tossed, I think, procedurally, he should be issued an unsportsmanlike penalty first, and then any follow up incident would result in the game misconduct. The refs may apply that liberally though, especially in a 4-1 game where the team is already down a player with less than two minutes left. Normally though, the bench minor is applied first. There was no need to keep Sully in there though.

[timelydew]

Plus, note how Bob errey says he's never seen that before

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

6 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

I can't remember the last time I saw a stick measurement infraction.  lol

 

 Nor can I. The rule on curvature of the stick changed about 10 years ago.   It went from 1/2 inch curve to 3/4 inch curve.   You'd be hard-pressed to find a stick with a curve greater than 5/8 of an inch. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

13 hours ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

A coach can take a bench minor for arguing a call.  

 

My bad.

 

I guess a player on the bench could also take a bench minor penalty for doing the same. 

[Podein25]

@timelydew

 

Are you a Ref by chance? Asking for a friend.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

6 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

My bad.

 

I guess a player on the bench could also take a bench minor penalty for doing the same. 

 

Usually not.  The player will usually get called for Unsportsmanlike, abuse of the officials, interference, etc.. A coach can't serve a 2 min penalty so they will get a bench minor.  Not saying it isn't possible for a player to get a bench minor, but highly unlikely.

[timelydew]

7 hours ago, Podein25 said:

@timelydew

 

Are you a Ref by chance? Asking for a friend.

I'm not at the moment, but the wheels are actually in motion to start reffing next season locally

[timelydew]

38 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

Usually not.  The player will usually get called for Unsportsmanlike, abuse of the officials, interference, etc.. A coach can't serve a 2 min penalty so they will get a bench minor.  Not saying it isn't possible for a player to get a bench minor, but highly unlikely.

Yeah, probably not impossible per se, but highly unlikely. A bench minor to the coach is probably the most common after too many men. At least one of the most common. I've seen a couple faceoff violations too

[Podein25]

43 minutes ago, timelydew said:

I'm not at the moment, but the wheels are actually in motion to start reffing next season locally

 

Yeah figured. Ok, get off the internet and learn the rules! 

 

Sorry, nothing personal, I just hate refs. 

[timelydew]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

Yeah figured. Ok, get off the internet and learn the rules! 

 

Sorry, nothing personal, I just hate refs. 

Hahaha I used to as well. But with the rule crusade I've been on, I've gotten really interested in officiating. I'll be a good ref, I hope. I understand the game as far as having played it up to junior b, and taking that experience and melding it with the rules is my goal. When I played I was the guy who took the penalties, so I understand that side of it.