elmatus Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 21 minutes ago, Howie58 said: Elmatus: I hope Morin pans out. That is a topic for another day. Meanwhile, Gudas is fairly young, 26 or 27, which is a plus. He could be part of long-term picture. My fear with our top line is decline with age with youngins taking a while to ripen. I don't think Gudas is part of the long term picture. I do think he will be traded at some point in the next couple years, while he still has value. The challenge with trading him this season is that we don't really have anyone who can take his place. Hex is generally quite patient in this regard -- Sanheim notwithstanding -- so I can't really see him actively shopping Gudas without having a potential replacement for him in the line up. If it wasn't for his injuries this year, I expect Morin would in fact be that guy. Given the injuries though, I'm thinking Hex will err on the side of caution and keep Gudas. Again, this is unless a team comes knocking with an overpayment of some sort. If that happens, I expect he would consider it. By aging top line, I'm assuming you mean Giroux. I definitely agree there. While I think he is likely to remain somewhat productive, it would be foolish to think he can sustain this year's resurgence for too many more seasons. Beyond him, Couts is only now entering his prime years. It's reasonable to expect he may even get better next year. Also, and I've blown this horn before, but TK has everything needed to be a fixture on the top line. He's been playing there a good bit recently, which I think is great. Once he settles into that role, I can totally see him keep it indefinitely. More than any of the other youngins, he has the talent to be there imo. So, we may very well enter 2018-19 with the most recent iteration of our top line in: Giroux, Couts, TK. It's entirely possible Giroux will slow down again next season, but that's jumping the gun I think. He's been great this year. There's always the hope he can sustain it for a few more years. Voracek is the other obvious suspect in all this. He's always hit or miss, and I expect he will remain aggravatingly so for the entirety of his career. I'm not sure what else to say about him except I still have no idea how he manages to produce while systematically coughing up the puck, shooting poorly, and making low percentage pass decisions. For whatever reason, it's working for him this year. I'm somehow doubtful he can stay so productive despite himself, but who knows -- I've been wrong before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 @elmatus and @Howie58 Great discussion all around. Giroux - I feel that he is one of those special cases. *If* healthy, I think age will have less of an effect on him than other players. He has elite vision and playmaking skills, and relies more on hockey IQ than strength or speed. As long as he has talent around him, I think he can play an important role in cultivating and elevating his teammates - be that on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd line as time goes on. I think his 50-range points last year is something we won't see again until 3-4 years. And even then, his faceoff skills, PK ability, and leadership will remain very valuable to a growing crop of new generation Flyers. He can be our Jagr. Defense - This is tricky because we're getting close to the point of having too many defensemen for available slots. The reality is that most of our prospects won't make the NHL, just based on history. If they do, some will have short careers. But until we know *who* those guys are, it's hard to get rid of our veterans. I actually feel Manning has played decent this year - honestly, better than Sanheim. For sure, Travis has a much higher projected ceiling, but he needs another season or two before I would consider him a stabilizing force back there that is trustworthy game in and game out. As it stands, there is no room for Morin, Myers, Willcox, et al on this team. The next few seasons will be very important in how Hextall navigates bringing up rookies who are ready to contribute more than, say, a Gudas or MacD does on a regular basis. I get the feeling Manning is playing over Sanheim because a) he's actually playing well and deserves a spot on this roster, and b) it makes him easier to trade since he will be a UFA and I don't think he is in the long term plans. It's more about opportunity and circumstance rather than a comment on Sanheim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 If Manning is re-signed, Hextall should be fired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Agreed with Bre that our stockpile on D may need culling. Manning is probably a cheap and serviceable 3rd pair dude and on intangibles we see a guy who comes to the defense of his own team, even sacrificing himself against a bigger opponent. Giroux may be the face of the franchise for some time--agreed. Meanwhile, the rest of the season may be a test for the squad on a number of fronts. The Metro isn't just an example of parity. I suspect the usual suspects (Pitt, Rangers) may be trending down in the life cycle. Columbus is good and Carolina may be emerging. The next few months may be a prelude to the next season or two. The coming matches in our division may say a lot about Hextall and his rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 11:57 AM, brelic said: @flyercanuck @King Knut The strange thing is after his benching, he actually started to care and assert himself. I dunno, that makes it seem like a motivation problem. Like he’s just used to coasting through life on talent. That’s probably a tough adjustment for someone like that. I’m sure he will adjust fine over the next few seasons, and that’s why I think his issue right now is more about what’s between his ears than anything physical. I think it's a good bit of both. Especially after what we saw from Giroux and Ghost last year and the fact that he really wasn't able to work out all summer. It would certainly compound the problems between his ears if he wasn't physically up to par to keep up and get himself in the places he needs to be to play his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 1:18 PM, RJ8812 said: If Manning is re-signed, Hextall should be fired I don't mind having him around in a 7th man role. However, Hextall might as well deadline deal him and play Sanheim or Morin through the push. He he wants to resign Manning for a million or so in July for 7th man / press box duty, I have no problem with that. The problem I will have will be if he plays him over a healthy Sanheim, Morin, Myers or anyone else. Manning is fine for a very specific role. Let him have the 2nd easiest job in sports. 7th D man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 12:00 PM, Howie58 said: Elmatus: I hope Morin pans out. That is a topic for another day. Meanwhile, Gudas is fairly young, 26 or 27, which is a plus. He could be part of long-term picture. My fear with our top line is decline with age with youngins taking a while to ripen. Morin's injury this year is so incredibly frustrating. I really think it would take a LOT to go wrong for him to not pan out. He should be playing now. I just hope he doesn't have to have the Giroux/Ghost surgery that would make next year slow too. If he does, he should just have it now and be done with it. Get healed and 100% that much sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 56 minutes ago, King Knut said: I don't mind having him around in a 7th man role. However, Hextall might as well deadline deal him and play Sanheim or Morin through the push. He he wants to resign Manning for a million or so in July for 7th man / press box duty, I have no problem with that. The problem I will have will be if he plays him over a healthy Sanheim, Morin, Myers or anyone else. Manning is fine for a very specific role. Let him have the 2nd easiest job in sports. 7th D man. I just don't trust Hakstol and his usage of Manning if he is re-signed. I would be fine with Manning as the 7th, but with him actually on the roster, I can't see Hakstol using him as such. Just like VdV. Just use Alt as the 7th next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 55 minutes ago, King Knut said: Morin's injury this year is so incredibly frustrating. I really think it would take a LOT to go wrong for him to not pan out. He should be playing now. I just hope he doesn't have to have the Giroux/Ghost surgery that would make next year slow too. If he does, he should just have it now and be done with it. Get healed and 100% that much sooner. Agreed that if shutting him down for the rest of the season helps, do it. On a broader front, when do we say he is or isn't NHL material? We knew he was a "project." The question is payback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, Howie58 said: Agreed that if shutting him down for the rest of the season helps, do it. On a broader front, when do we say he is or isn't NHL material? We knew he was a "project." The question is payback. Never. He is NHL material. No question. Many people were surprised when he didn't make the team out of camp. That they kept Sanheim for the opening Road trip was a bit of a head scratcher at the time, but it made sense for various reasons (Pairings and skill sets). Now that they've broken up Mac and Provo, the Pairings are shaking out that there's a very good chance Morin would be playing now instead of Manning or Sanheim if he'd come up and looked okay. When Gudas got suspended and A Mac got hurt, they went to call up Morin, but it turned out he was hurt too. There was a bit of controversy over that (possible he didn't tell them and was playing in lehigh hurt). Long story short, a healthy Morin might have come up at that point. The two games he played had a shadow cast over them because he made a big blunder that cost them, but in actuality he played pretty well in those games (the back to back OTL's against the Islanders during the streak). He only played about 16 minutes per night, but he ended up a +1 and his play driving was excellent. Maybe he's not going to step in and play like Provorov, but he's got real skill, can skate okay and has great size and reach and on top of it all has a pretty decent mean streak (but has been working on discipline for 2 years). He'll need some NHL adjustment time, but his size and skillset are almost exactly what the Flyers are missing on Defense. If they give up on him, he will become a great D man for another team in this league. We should all be eager to see him getting minutes. Just hope he doesn't have a slow 2018-2019 due to off seasons surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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