The Other Elephant

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

If JVR doesn't score 25+, there will have been something very wrong happening.  

 

As far as the bottom 6 goes, there's almost no way it won't be better, especially if Filppula is really gone. 

 

If we get a somewhat healthy Wayne Simmonds, he'll be playing on the 3rd line this year.  

That's an immediate and significant improvement.

Lindblom was a 2nd liner and looked good last spring and he will be an improvement over Weal at LW.  At that point whether the 3C is Vecchione, Vrobyov, Laughton, or even Weal, that third line is going to be better on the whole by leaps and bounds because the 3C will NOT be Filppula who simply couldn't keep up for a a large portion of the season.  Long story short, unless something goes horribly wrong, the 3rd line will be almost unrecognizably better.

 

Which leaves the 4th line and if we can just keep Lehtera off of it, the 4th line was actually fairly decent for a good portion of last year.  

 

They'll actually be a pretty deep team at forward this year.  I think all 4 lines will be very good at their roles.  I'm excited to see it.

 

I can't figure out why you think the bottom 6 won't be better.

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree on this.

 

Not much to add a lot to have to go better but i agree addition by subtraction will hopefully bring better results.

 

I hope Hak will try to have some faith in the forwards more like what Vegas did by trying to skate the puck in more than all that dump and chase crap.

 

If he does i think they will see more goals which will lead to more wins...the biggest variable that scares me...i'm afraid is still in net.

[elmatus]

10 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

If he does i think they will see more goals which will lead to more wins...the biggest variable that scares me...i'm afraid is still in net.

 

Yeah, it's not even close really. Even if the third doesn't pan out, we should at the very least have two very dangerous lines. That alone should be enough to turn a winning record. If someone like Weal turns out better than advertised and we end up with a decent third, we should be rolling quite nicely. Adding to that, if Sanheim can find his game, we should see an even stronger back end as well. It's easy to be optimistic when looking at the line up potential.

 

In comparison, our netminders feel like one hell of an anchor at this point. Unfortunately, there really isn't much of a solution at the moment. We're just going to have to hope for good bounces more often than not.

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

Yeah, it's not even close really. Even if the third doesn't pan out, we should at the very least have two very dangerous lines. That alone should be enough to turn a winning record. If someone like Weal turns out better than advertised and we end up with a decent third, we should be rolling quite nicely. Adding to that, if Sanheim can find his game, we should see an even stronger back end as well. It's easy to be optimistic when looking at the line up potential.

 

In comparison, our netminders feel like one hell of an anchor at this point. Unfortunately, there really isn't much of a solution at the moment. We're just going to have to hope for good bounces more often than not.

 

The third line was so bad last year, that "not panning out" this year would mean some absolutely catastrophic failures and injuries.

 

We don't need Weal to be better than advertised.  We don't even know that he's the 3C.  That was just Hextall bandying about some possibilities.   

 

The fact is that Jordan Weal was actually much worse than advertised last year, and I kinda have to believe that had more to do with Filppula and Simmonds not being able to keep up with the flow of the game.  I'm not sure that it will be Weal, but what I am sure of is that even if he's the WORST option and he still plays between Lindblom and a remotely healthy Simmonds, that 3rd line is going to be much better than last year.  

 

Someone said they weren't sold on Lindblom, and frankly as a 60pt. player, neither am I.  What I do believe in him as is a Michael Raffl type with more offensive upside.  The Chemistry Lindblom and Patrick were showing in just a few games was really impressive and the kind of thing that is going to result in more goals when the two players in question aren't rookies.  

 

Lindblom sees the game, has a great feel for an unfolding play and seems to have that knack of getting in the right spot he'll need to be in a few seconds later instead of chasing the play.  

 

The real question is whether or not Hakstol can keep himself from putting Weise and Lehtera up in the lineup on the 3rd instead of in the press box or the waiver wire where they belong.

AND I say that fully acknowledging my belief that Lehtera was actually pretty good for this team in the last few games and in the playoffs.  And I was as shocked as anyone to see it.  

 

You're spot on about the netminders, but frankly, I'm not as pessimistic as you or many others here.  They're not going to be great or even good.  I do think however that unless we have another season where Hakstol plays each guy 25 straight games until be breaks and we're saddled with more injuries, the guys we have will be serviceable to a 100pt. season.  That's how much I believe in the rest of this team.  

 

Elliott isn't bad.  He's not good. But it irks me when people insist on presenting him as so much worse than he is.    He's fine.  Not electric.  Not amazing.  He's an average at best goalie who the team can win playing in front of.  That's all they need right now as they sort themselves out more.  To be honest, in the long term, I'd rather have a serviceable goalie who is going to make the team play more responsibly and coherently now as the younger guys start to come of age than have a Hasek or someone who will let them keep coughing up pucks and save everyone's butts all the time.

Far more concerning than the goalie is the way hakstol has the defense playing and the frequency with which they get stood up at the blue line and the other team turns that into goals, or the frequency with which the PK is god awful.

 

 

 

 

[elmatus]

41 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

The third line was so bad last year, that "not panning out" this year would mean some absolutely catastrophic failures and injuries.

 

We don't need Weal to be better than advertised.  We don't even know that he's the 3C.  That was just Hextall bandying about some possibilities.   

 

The fact is that Jordan Weal was actually much worse than advertised last year, and I kinda have to believe that had more to do with Filppula and Simmonds not being able to keep up with the flow of the game.  I'm not sure that it will be Weal, but what I am sure of is that even if he's the WORST option and he still plays between Lindblom and a remotely healthy Simmonds, that 3rd line is going to be much better than last year.  

 

Someone said they weren't sold on Lindblom, and frankly as a 60pt. player, neither am I.  What I do believe in him as is a Michael Raffl type with more offensive upside.  The Chemistry Lindblom and Patrick were showing in just a few games was really impressive and the kind of thing that is going to result in more goals when the two players in question aren't rookies.  

 

Lindblom sees the game, has a great feel for an unfolding play and seems to have that knack of getting in the right spot he'll need to be in a few seconds later instead of chasing the play.  

 

The real question is whether or not Hakstol can keep himself from putting Weise and Lehtera up in the lineup on the 3rd instead of in the press box or the waiver wire where they belong.

AND I say that fully acknowledging my belief that Lehtera was actually pretty good for this team in the last few games and in the playoffs.  And I was as shocked as anyone to see it.  

 

You're spot on about the netminders, but frankly, I'm not as pessimistic as you or many others here.  They're not going to be great or even good.  I do think however that unless we have another season where Hakstol plays each guy 25 straight games until be breaks and we're saddled with more injuries, the guys we have will be serviceable to a 100pt. season.  That's how much I believe in the rest of this team.  

 

Elliott isn't bad.  He's not good. But it irks me when people insist on presenting him as so much worse than he is.    He's fine.  Not electric.  Not amazing.  He's an average at best goalie who the team can win playing in front of.  That's all they need right now as they sort themselves out more.  To be honest, in the long term, I'd rather have a serviceable goalie who is going to make the team play more responsibly and coherently now as the younger guys start to come of age than have a Hasek or someone who will let them keep coughing up pucks and save everyone's butts all the time.

Far more concerning than the goalie is the way hakstol has the defense playing and the frequency with which they get stood up at the blue line and the other team turns that into goals, or the frequency with which the PK is god awful.

 

That's fine. We don't have to agree on everything. 

 

At the end of the day, we're both saying 80% of the same thing, and we both want the same results. That matters more.

[vis]

20 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

I don't have as much faith in Lindblom as you do, and I likely didn't hate Fil quite as much either. I think any decent line sinks and swims first and foremost on the strength of its centerman, and we just don't have a very capable 3C right now. I have no reason to think Weal will somehow morph into a solid NHL player, even less so a 3C.

This is how I feel as well.  I'm not convinced that the subtraction of Filppula translates into a better bottom six.  First off, I think you have to think about what roles and attributes you want you third and fourth lines to have.  Nowadays, your third line has to provide some offensive pop and be defensively responsible.  The fourth line has to bring energy and cannot be weak defensively.  Offense from the fourth line is a gift, imo.  With that in mind, and given the possible candidates to play in the bottom six, I am not sure the Flyers will be much better than last year.

 

Just some thoughts:

 

Luaghton - I think he'd be fine as 4C.  Don't think he has enough offensive ability to be a 3C.  Though, maybe Simmonds would help.  Like you, I'm not sold on Lindblom.  I expected more of him last year and thought he was a letdown.  Maybe expectations were unfair, but even so, I rarely recall instances where I thought he "belonged". 

 

Weal - Think he has more offensive potential than Laughton as a 3C, but not sure he's strong enough defensively.  Really not sold on him at center in any capacity.  A line of Lindblom/Weal/Simmonds doesn't inspire me.

 

Lehtera - The prospect of Lehtera playing C on a regular basis, whether as a third or fourth liner, makes me ill.

 

Vorobyev/Vecchione - I don't know enough about the Phantoms players to make an educated guess, but my general feeling is that it would be hard for a first year NHLer to make a meaningful impact as a 3C.  Could see them as viable 4C candidates, but think there would be growing pains there.

 

Frost - Honestly, I'd love to see him get the 3C role if he shows just enough in camp to warrant a permanent spot.  My guess is the Flyers have him penciled in to return to juniors, though. Though if Frost earns a spot, I wish he'd have someone more experienced than Lindblom as his LW, but that doesn't seem feasible.  I am really rooting for Frost to make it, though, again, there will be growing pains.

[elmatus]

1 minute ago, vis said:

With that in mind, and given the possible candidates to play in the bottom six, I am not sure the Flyers will be much better than last year.

 

I agree with you 100%. That said, if Giroux can maintain at even 90% of what he was firing last year, and we get a step forward from Patrick and TK, and JVR fills the boots he's expected to, I definitely think this team will be better than last year. I'm with you for sure on the bottom six being an enigma at best right now, but that top six has tremendous potential to win games.

 

Sure, that may seem like a lot of ifs, but really none of that is such a gamble. JVR and Giroux' continued dominance are the most questionable imo, but I personally think we'll see both. Patrick and TK seem like a foregone conclusion to me. I will be shocked if we don't see both of them enter the elite top six realm.

 

It this a playoff winner? Well, probably not without a solid 3C, better goaltending, and a decent second pairing at D. But it should definitely make for an improvement over last season, possibly a marked one.

[King Knut]

44 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

That's fine. We don't have to agree on everything. 

 

At the end of the day, we're both saying 80% of the same thing, and we both want the same results. That matters more.

 

 

Absolutely.  I empathize with the concern, I just feel pretty good about things right now.  I'll feel a whole lot better when one or two of the young goalies emerge

[King Knut]

23 minutes ago, vis said:

 

Frost - Honestly, I'd love to see him get the 3C role if he shows just enough in camp to warrant a permanent spot.  My guess is the Flyers have him penciled in to return to juniors, though. Though if Frost earns a spot, I wish he'd have someone more experienced than Lindblom as his LW, but that doesn't seem feasible.  I am really rooting for Frost to make it, though, again, there will be growing pains.

 

Laughton has more offensive upside than people give him credit for and when he filled in at 3C last year, the underlying numbers were actually pretty good.  If a 3C is going to come from existing flyers and not the Phantoms, he's the guy I'd like to see doing it.

 

That said, Hextall and Hakstol really don't seem to see it that way.  

 

I really just don't think Frost is making the team this year for many reasons, not the least of which is that if they push the Seattle draft to 2021 as is being discussed, they'll likely have to protect him at that point 

[elmatus]

38 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

 

Absolutely.  I empathize with the concern, I just feel pretty good about things right now.  I'll feel a whole lot better when one or two of the young goalies emerge

 

For sure. I’m also very excited at what this year could bring. There are always question marks, but the slated top six has me salivating, and i’m giddy at seeing what Provo could become with another season under his belt.

 

That’s all without mentioning a return to form from Simmonds and a possible step forward from Sanheim.

 

That’s a lot to like!

[vis]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

I agree with you 100%. That said, if Giroux can maintain at even 90% of what he was firing last year, and we get a step forward from Patrick and TK, and JVR fills the boots he's expected to, I definitely think this team will be better than last year.

Yes, totally agree the top six will improve.  I'm not expecting Giroux or Couturier to be as good as they were, but, in the aggregate, I think that group will be stronger.

 

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

It this a playoff winner? Well, probably not without a solid 3C, better goaltending, and a decent second pairing at D. But it should definitely make for an improvement over last season, possibly a marked one.

Agree, they should make the POs, but without improvement in those areas (and the PK) not sure they win a round without getting a favorable matchup.   Unless I'm missing something, the teams that finished behind them did not improve much roster-wise in the offseason.  Maybe Florida gives them a run again.

[King Knut]

19 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I have to agree on this.

 

Not much to add a lot to have to go better but i agree addition by subtraction will hopefully bring better results.

 

I hope Hak will try to have some faith in the forwards more like what Vegas did by trying to skate the puck in more than all that dump and chase crap.

 

If he does i think they will see more goals which will lead to more wins...the biggest variable that scares me...i'm afraid is still in net.

 

I'm hoping Vegas' example will rub off on the league because the dump and chase thing has become kinda league wide.  It's become as bad as the clutch and grab stuff was around '95-'00  well not that bad.  That was pretty awful.

 

He's certainly got more talent now and people who can carry the puck and other who can streak ahead for outlets.  

 

The top two lines should be strong zone entry lines at this point with the top line having the (hopefully) added advantage of Konecny's speed to take advantage of.  Jake is a zone entry machine (we make note of when he loses it and it goes the other way, but he carries it in far more than he loses it and it's worth the risk) and Patrick is a slick operator who can put primary assists before the defense even knows he made the pass and of course JVR is the finisher that line needs, but I fear for them a little under Hak because they're also all pretty fierce in puck battles and possession, so I could see dump and chase being a default for them.  

 

With any luck they'll be good enough to make the call on their own and have the green light to try to make a play happen when there's even just a smidge of room (which should be all Jake needs to get it into the zone and draw two defenders to him, leaving Patrick the room he needs to make something happen).  

 

 

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, vis said:

Yes, totally agree the top six will improve.  I'm not expecting Giroux or Couturier to be as good as they were, but, in the aggregate, I think that group will be stronger.

 

Agree, they should make the POs, but without improvement in those areas (and the PK) not sure they win a round without getting a favorable matchup.   Unless I'm missing something, the teams that finished behind them did not improve much roster-wise in the offseason.  Maybe Florida gives them a run again.

 

If this team doesn't compete for the division, I'll be very surprised and it will likely be because of injury.  

 

I think expecting Giroux to score 100 pts again is asking too much, I'm really now sure what to think about Coots' production because I was one of the guys anticipating that for a little while, but it's difficult to assume anyone will repeat a career year.

 

That said, Konecny is the guy I'm excited about on that first line.  He could take some serious strides if he plays with them the whole year.  The dude was a .85 pt. per game player in the second half of the season (until Hakstol mysteriously put him back on the third line with Filppula).  I'm not saying he's going to put up 70 pts, but he could flirt with 60+ and that should hopefully take some of the pressure off GIroux and Coots repeating career seasons.  In addition, the guy had the look of a dude who was just starting to sort things out and who could be ready to go into insane mode.  

 

Even with him and Patrick becoming BFF's, I'd keep him on the first line, but if they switched him and Jake, I think it could still work for everyone in big ways.  

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

I'm hoping Vegas' example will rub off on the league because the dump and chase thing has become kinda league wide. 

 

 

I'm not so much worried about league wide but i'm worried about the Flyers.

 

The reason it was such a big deal was in order for that to happen the coach has to have trust more in his players...it was what Gallant said....with that you have to live with the young guys making mistake and letting them play through it...and learn.

 

So if Hak could do that it would show me some growth from him.

 

For him to trust his kids and let them play and learn on the job. If he does i think we will see the benefits come March of next year.

 

Not sure if he will be able to do that but i hope he can but he needs to trust the young guys...and coach them up as they go.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I think expecting Giroux to score 100 pts again is asking too much

 

Myself i will not be putting a number so to speak on it....besides wins.

 

The main reason being is i am hoping they as a whole grow and are better. With the addition of JVR and Patrick being older/wiser/healthier i am hoping the 2nd line minutes go up and maybe the top line gets less pressure so with that maybe Giroux's points fall back some...but if they get more wins and are better i am good with that.

 

And maybe with a healthy Simmer maybe the 3rd line gets some slight increase in minutes so it will be spread around.

 

And at the end of the day they get more wins and a better seed i don't think anyone will complain.

[King Knut]

13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I'm not so much worried about league wide but i'm worried about the Flyers.

 

The reason it was such a big deal was in order for that to happen the coach has to have trust more in his players...it was what Gallant said....with that you have to live with the young guys making mistake and letting them play through it...and learn.

 

So if Hak could do that it would show me some growth from him.

 

For him to trust his kids and let them play and learn on the job. If he does i think we will see the benefits come March of next year.

 

Not sure if he will be able to do that but i hope he can but he needs to trust the young guys...and coach them up as they go.

 

its not just Hak and his players.  It’s acrually not just hockey (baseball and football are constantly just playing it safe and potentially more boring as a result). 

 

I was actually hearing about how of all people Kovalchuck (I think) was complaining about this, how he tried to watch an NHL game with his kids and the game disgusted him with the dump and chase.  

 

As as far as Hak goes, I wi see if the Eagles And Pederson’s aggressive approach might be an inspiration.  They’ve spent 3 years under Hak, basically just trying not to lose. And the thing is, when the chips are down and these Flyers stop pushing, start dumping and chasing or even give up on trying to score and just focus on holding the lead and not losing, it ALMOST ALWAYS FAILS.  

 

Thats not exactly what you’re talking about but it’s not entirely separate.  

 

Sometimes you just gotta dump (giggle) either you don’t have the play or the man to pass to and you have to dump it in. 

 

It it just shouldn’t be the norm.  I’m in total agreement.  They have the skill now.  Up front and on d (is Sanheim plays full time). 

[King Knut]

13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Myself i will not be putting a number so to speak on it....besides wins.

 

 

Right?  If Giroux, Jake and Coots all score 50 points but the team finishes with 110, is that a regression or just a refocusing?  I want them to win.  Granted with the D being such a mixture of old and useless and green but learning and the goaltenders being what they are, logic would dictate that  winning games will most likely be dependent on Jake, G and Coots plus Patrick, Konecny, Simmonds and JVR all having good scoring seasons.  

 

13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

The main reason being is i am hoping they as a whole grow and are better. With the addition of JVR and Patrick being older/wiser/healthier i am hoping the 2nd line minutes go up and maybe the top line gets less pressure so with that maybe Giroux's points fall back some...but if they get more wins and are better i am good with that.

 

Absolutely agree.  First half Patrick vs. Second half Patrick last year were night and day and besides giving him Jake the difference really seemed to come from him just getting into shape and getting up to speed.  He's not the most mind blowing skater, but he's better than we all initially thought simply because no one'd seen him skate in shape and full healthy since he was like 16 or 17.  Put JVR on that line with that 2nd half Patrick and keep Jake doing what Jake does and with a little luck (or absence of terrible luck) we could be looking at a 2nd line that could get 1st line minutes on a lot if not a majority of NHL teams.  

 

13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

And maybe with a healthy Simmer maybe the 3rd line gets some slight increase in minutes so it will be spread around.

 

And at the end of the day they get more wins and a better seed i don't think anyone will complain.

 

The third line is going to be incredibly better this year just as long as Simmer is healthy and at maybe 80% of his normal self.  With any luck he can stay most healthy this year and be almost his normal self by spring.  That ALONE is going to drastically help that 3rd trio.  Everyone's assuming it's Weal at 3C because of Ron's comments, I'm not convinced, but even if it is, I actually believe it'll be a step up from Fillpula, who had the hockey sense and experience that Weal or Laughton (or certainly Vex and Misha) don't but who simply couldn't keep up with the rest of the skaters on the ice anymore.  I also really like Lindblom.  He didn't show the flash of connecting on a lot of goals, but his positioning and responsible play was incredible for a rookie.  He was always going to the right places and playing both ends very responsibly.  He will be an excellent 3rd liner with potential to move up if needed.  As I've suggested in other posts, he's like a Raffl type with more more offensive potential and that is a very useful player to have on your roster.  

 

13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

And at the end of the day they get more wins and a better seed i don't think anyone will complain.

 

Someone will.  They could win the division and sweep the first round and some jack ass on this board or on twitter would still make the takeaway, "I told you G was toast and Coots was nothing more than a decent 3C".  It seems to be our nature.

[OccamsRazor]

49 minutes ago, King Knut said:

  If Giroux, Jake and Coots all score 50 points but the team finishes with 110

 

 

Oh without doubt someone somewhere will complain about it. Not i care about only one accolade during the whole season.

 

Without it...really nothing else matters (to me).

 

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

Someone will.

 

Yes they will they won't like HOW they did it. Sad but true.

 

[vis]

On 8/21/2018 at 2:47 PM, King Knut said:

Laughton has more offensive upside than people give him credit for and when he filled in at 3C last year, the underlying numbers were actually pretty good.  If a 3C is going to come from existing flyers and not the Phantoms, he's the guy I'd like to see doing it.

I think you need a little more offense than he's shown, but maybe he has a Couturier-like emergence if given the 3C role full time.  Agree that, among existing Flyers, I'd prefer him as the 3C.  

 

On 8/21/2018 at 2:47 PM, King Knut said:

I really just don't think Frost is making the team this year for many reasons, not the least of which is that if they push the Seattle draft to 2021 as is being discussed, they'll likely have to protect him at that point 

I think they have him penciled in for juniors.  But if he shows that he deserves a spot, I wouldn't let the 2021 expansion draft dictate whether I keep him with the big club.  I would look at that only as a silver lining if he doesn't earn a spot.

[vis]

On 8/21/2018 at 5:42 PM, King Knut said:

 

If this team doesn't compete for the division, I'll be very surprised and it will likely be because of injury.  

Yeah, they should be competing in what will probably be a tight race.  They did compete for a portion of last year, although that was a little bit of a fluke imo.  However, I don't think any of the metro teams substantially upgraded from last year.

 

On 8/21/2018 at 5:42 PM, King Knut said:

That said, Konecny is the guy I'm excited about on that first line. 

Same here.  Have always been a big Konency fan.  I just Hakstol lets him play the way he needs to play.

[King Knut]

11 hours ago, vis said:

I think you need a little more offense than he's shown, but maybe he has a Couturier-like emergence if given the 3C role full time.  Agree that, among existing Flyers, I'd prefer him as the 3C.  

 

Not that they're really that similar, but the comparison is a good one as Laughton too came out of the draft with us (and him) thinking he was an offensive talent.  The difference seems to be that Coots was just so damn good at defensive coverage against the league's top talent, that the team pretty much locked him into that role and that Laughton needed a year plus of having to relearn the game to accommodate that role.   

 

I personally still wish that Misha Vrobyov and my dark horse personal preference of Vecchione for either 3C or 4C.  I think if and when Frost works out, one of them will claim that 4C spot easily.  I'd love to see it be Vex for a year so he prove himself of some value and maybe be traded for a usable asset or pick at some later date and have Vrobyov inherit the role next year as he's younger and likely has more eventual upside.  I think Vecchione is likely a bottom 6 NHL player and should be on a team someplace.  It's a shame he's not getting his shot here because of friggin' Lehtera and I'd just like to see him get a shot and make a name before he's gone.  He didn't have to sign with the Flyers and if he'd signed with one of the other teams wooing him that spring, he'd likely be on their NHL roster now.  

 

11 hours ago, vis said:

I think they have him penciled in for juniors.  But if he shows that he deserves a spot, I wouldn't let the 2021 expansion draft dictate whether I keep him with the big club.  I would look at that only as a silver lining if he doesn't earn a spot.

 

I don't think you let it dictate anything.  I just think that unless he has a camp and a preseason that makes it literally impossible to deny him the 3C role, the expansion draft has to be a factor.  This time around won't be like Vegas.  The Flyers are going to lose a very good player in this draft and they will have to be strategic about it to make sure it isn't someone they REALLY don't want to lose.  Not playing him now if it's an even close decision isn't about protecting him, it could be about protecting Sanheim or Myers or Morin (who wouldn't seem to need protecting now, but by 2020-2021 could be an invaluable asset).  In all likelihood, unless things go really south really fast, the Flyers will likely have to do the 10 skaters option instead of the 7Fwd, 2D option as they will have too many extremely valuable young Dmen. That means they will have to expose a lot of really good forwards they won't want to lose.  

 

Of course you're right, there's a lot of time between then and now (they don't even know when the draft will be)  and there will potentially be a work stoppage (definitely a new CBA and likely some buy outs) by then as well.  But the Flyers are finally putting the team together that they've worked so hard for (and frankly that we've endured so much agony over) and Seattle is just going to get to pluck one of those assets away for nothing.  It ain't gonna be PEB this time.  Best case scenario, Jake or Simmer or JVR will look to be declining by then, but still be valuable enough for Seattle to take for the name and the numbers.  Worst case scenario, Phil Myers scores 60 points for the "Grunge" or whatever they're going to be called in their first year.  

 

I know a lot of people don't like taking the Seattle draft into account, but the Flyers are going to have to be careful because look at the way Columbus and Florida got screwed by trying to deal around or outsmart the vegas draft.  

 

 

[King Knut]

12 hours ago, vis said:

Yeah, they should be competing in what will probably be a tight race.  They did compete for a portion of last year, although that was a little bit of a fluke imo.  However, I don't think any of the metro teams substantially upgraded from last year.

 

 

Myself I don't see it as a fluke so much.  It really felt like they might have taken the division from the Capitals if Elliott and Neuvy both gotten hurt.  They were playing that well and turned mediocre again on a dime when Lyon/Mrazek had to take over.  

 

That said, there's no reason to believe the same thing couldn't happen again this year except for the fact that the rest of the team in Front of those brittle tenders does appear to be of a higher quality and greater experience on the whole.  

12 hours ago, vis said:

Same here.  Have always been a big Konency fan.  I just Hakstol lets him play the way he needs to play.

 

I'm a big believer in this.  He has to come off his leash.  He doesn't even need to do it for long.  Just long enough to other teams to figure out they have to pay more attention to him, which will open things up for G and Coots and Ghost and Provo (or whoever) enough to turn zone exits into controlled entries and sustained pressure (one of this team's existing strengths when it can happen).  

 

Suddenly you're playing more of the game in the offensive zone, which means even if you're not necessarily scoring more goals, you're not letting them get as many shots against your brittle ass mediocre at best when actually healthy goalies.  

 

 

[brelic]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Suddenly you're playing more of the game in the offensive zone, which means even if you're not necessarily scoring more goals, you're not letting them get as many shots against your brittle ass mediocre at best when actually healthy goalies.  

 

 

If I recall from last year, one of the big issues wasn't the lack of offensive zone time. It was the high risk plays in the offensive zone and especially the neutral zone leading the turnovers and odd man rushes the other way. I love that kind of high-risk high-reward hockey, but they definitely need to tighten that up.

 

I think that sorts itself out over the long run as players mature, gain experience, and confidence. That being said, I think we'll still see a lot of that this year.

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

If I recall from last year, one of the big issues wasn't the lack of offensive zone time. It was the high risk plays in the offensive zone and especially the neutral zone leading the turnovers and odd man rushes the other way. I love that kind of high-risk high-reward hockey, but they definitely need to tighten that up.

 

I think that sorts itself out over the long run as players mature, gain experience, and confidence. That being said, I think we'll still see a lot of that this year.

 

I mean offensive zone time when you control the puck, getting open and setting up plays, not when you're battling for it along the boards hoping to pass back to the point for a shot through traffic.  

 

[LegionOfDoom]

Well at least this year we have moving parts in different areas for 3C and Nolan's line.

It won't be the same retread from last year.

In fact if you guys think about it from this time on out, every year from now is going to be just about guaranteed new headlines and growth. We are no longer hanging on to contracts that effect our team, and we will no longer be having anchors playing over prospects.

I think this year starts to put a stamp on "The Plan" moving forward. We acquired a "free Agent" signing to improve the team and now it's a matter of setting sail in the right direction going forward. Of all the players, Weal has the most experience at center who will vie for 3C.

That is why Hexy keeps mentioning him. From an internal logistics approach, his resume' is ahead of the others. In saying that. Frost, Vecchione, Vrobyov and Laughton might end up better, but if your dealing with tenure and past successful experience, Weal is why they look at that option. Now his mental fortitude is what I wonder if it can hang in an 82 game season. He does have talent, but can he harness that, at 3C for 82 games. (He and Laughton I think are in that same position)

The other players in the AHL are intriguing and we are all wanting them to come up to the NHL already. Veccione should be here by this year and will probably get called up on team injury, Vrobyov might win the 3C spot if he looks good enough at training camp and Frost will have to triple hurdle guys in camp in a no discussion manner to leapfrog these other players.

 

I think that's where Hextall's mind is at. He has internal pieces to work with.  There is no more Vandevelde, Umburger or Filpy to pull out the shelf from anymore. 

Weise and Lehtera of the two are probably not going to impact the roster decisions too much to affect the outcome of the game.

Gudas and McDonald should play better this final year.

 

[Post-Job] Wanted: Whipping Boy. 1 year contract. Subject to change each year, and a yearly evaluation will be required to maintain status and position. Start Date: 09/2018

[vis]

On 8/23/2018 at 11:37 AM, King Knut said:

Myself I don't see it as a fluke so much.  It really felt like they might have taken the division from the Capitals if Elliott and Neuvy both gotten hurt.  They were playing that well and turned mediocre again on a dime when Lyon/Mrazek had to take over.  

It was a little flukey for me because of the inconsistency.  They had a ridiculously good stretch which got them into first place, after losing ten straight.  Then, as you mentioned, they turned mediocre again.  I still don't know what to think of that team.

 

On 8/23/2018 at 11:37 AM, King Knut said:

That said, there's no reason to believe the same thing couldn't happen again this year

I am hoping for more consistency.  However, I agree that they should be in the hunt at least for home ice in the first round.  Not quite sure about first place, but it's not unrealistic.

 

On 8/23/2018 at 11:37 AM, King Knut said:

I'm a big believer in this.  He has to come off his leash.

I think he just needs to be a little smarter about when he goes off leash and needs to lose some of the stupid penalties he took last year.  I don't think he needs to be Bob Gainey out there, but a little bit of savvy will help him.