Haliax

Ed Snider and Paul Holmgren apparently disagree...

Or Laviolette was already on thin ice. 

But I'm not too fussed about it. If you feel like panicking over 3 games, go right ahead. 

I think people are putting too much stock into the first three games of the season. There is a ways to go before you need to worry about either team.

I didn't get to see the game, but sloppy play at the beginning of the season is to be expected, even if they hadn't played the night before. They've got players that are still learning the system. Same with the powerplay. I'll not be worried until around the 20 game mark if things still aren't clicking.

Nyquist, Beau Bennett from the Pens and Toffoli were all victims of having options and playing for stacked teams. sad really but thems the breaks.

With the difference being that Bennet and Toffoli are 21 where Nyquist is 24.  

Helm is out for a minimum of 24 days I think, if he's on LTIR.

And this is exactly what I didn't want to see, Nyquist in the AHL. Such a waste.

I've been waiting for Cleary to return back to old form for 3(?) seasons now. He hasn't been the same since Samuelsson broke his jaw with that ridiculous high and wide shot. He's still a useful player, but he isn't the fast pace offensive threat that he used to be. Which is how Babcock seems intent on using him.

Um, actually I think we have to say that our PP the last 2 seasons has been a disappointment. It's not just Cleary. He's merely one cog in the winged wheel. I do seem to recall last year that someone posted some pretty sick statistics in support of Cleary on the top 2 lines as far as puck possession and retrieval times went. And that was well before his playoff "resurrection." But his playoff numbers weren't a fluke as far as how he played in the playoffs. He was all over the place. If he was like that all the time, we wouldn't be haveing an argument about him, and he wouldn't be playing for $1.75M on a 1-year deal. And we probably wouldn't have Weiss and Alfredsson--probably one of the 2, but not both.

 

I actually kinda like the Cleary deal, because it gives us 1 year to see if he keeps playing the way he did in the SCPs last year or if he falls back into the regular Cleary pattern. I do acknowledge and respect the argument about bringing the kinds up and giving them ice time, though. But I'm with Ken on this one. For $1.75M, that's too good a deal to pass up, especially with only the single year of commitment. I have a feeling the kids will still get their chance with injuries that are still likely to occur. I also think, as I have said before, that Gus' play in GR will likely force a decision to bring him back up. This is Tatar's chance to show how much he belongs, and in what capacity.

 

I think the PP problem goes WAY beyond Cleary, and to try to pin that on him is going a step or two too far.

I didn't try to pin the PP problems solely on Cleary. That's just your own extrapolation. If you can find numbers in support of Cleary in terms of puck possession, I'm open to retracting that aspect of my criticism of his play. In my mind, he's been an inconsistent cog, and it is past time to try and see what our young players can do, which is really the larger part of my criticism. If we end up losing Eaves or Miller or Tootoo and keep Cleary, I don't have as big of a problem with it. Because Cleary is better than them. But I don't want to see the growth of Tatar or Nyquist stunted by the teams loyalty to veteran players. 

In the end, the problem isn't really Cleary, it's that we already had 16 NHL forwards under contract, so signing another was pointless. And I think Cleary is misused. There are situations where a player like him is useful, but I don't think it is in the top 6 with PP time.

But that little **** Shanahan is out to get us. 

Yeah. I really don't think that's true.

I'm fine with everything up until they decided they needed to bring Cleary back. Why was that necessary? Beyond that, they are currently saddled with 2 bad contracts in Tootoo and Samuelsson. I was against those contracts right from the start and we're seeing why. Tootoo was never going to be a regular on this team when it came down to winning, and we saw that when Babcock benched him for the entirety of the playoffs. Samuelsson was signed as a PP specialist, for the point, which was a failed experiment from 4 years ago, so why are we trying again?

And we're seeing Cleary on the 2nd PP unit. Why? When was the last time Cleary was effective on the power play? He kills momentum as soon as he touches the puck. It isn't as if we don't have better options. 

I'd say give him 2 or 3 games, but anything beyond that is probably over kill. I'd be fine with 1 game if that is what the league decided. If he had swung higher and away from pads than I would look for more. 

I don't see why Scott would deserve a suspension at all.

We're at a point that is well past not rushing players to the NHL. The team isn't giving young players the chance that they earned. Tatar was one of the better players on the Wings last season when he was sent down. He wasn't putting up big numbers, but he looked consistently dangerous in the offensive zone. The teams love for veterans is hurting it's future. I think that Brendan Smith is a good example of this. Instead of playing with and learning from Lidstrom, he was burried in the AHL when he had shown that he was probably ready for NHL time. It looks like the team is going to give Dekeyser a good shot, but only because they weren't able to find a decent shut down defenseman for the right price. And probably because he demanded the ice time if the team wanted him to sign. If Dekeyser was a Wings draftee, I wouldn't be surprised to see him still in the AHL if the team had the option.

The team is glacial when it comes to developing young talent. They haven't given a young player a real shot since Jiri Fischer, who cracked the team at the age of 19.  And that was Bowman. What young player has Babcock given a legit chance? I can't think of any.

It drives me nuts that Holland felt for whatever reason that he needed to sign Cleary. He takes up space that should be used on developing younger players, and we were already cluttered to begin with. Tatar on the bench is a waste. He should be getting minimum 14-15 minutes a night, with second unit powerplay time. Same goes for Nyquist. If he ends up in Grand Rapids, I hope he decides to bolt from the organization as quickly as possible. The Wings are stunting his development and costing him money.

I think Bogo's agent did a great job on that deal. I'm probably in the minority here, but I think he will earn every penny of that deal. That however, is based on potential, cause he has not put it together enough to actually deserve that kinda cash present day. I just believe in the kid and think he's a wonderful package of skating, toughness and offensive ability.

I agree with this. Bogosian is also in a position where the team needs to retain him, where Franson is not. The Leafs can let Franson go without missing him that much.

I don't think that Pavelski is overpaid on this contract, but using Staal as an example of why doesn't really work. He's 6 years younger, is better defensively, and not really any worse offensively.

@WingNut722

Nah, you can stay. But you have to drink the Kool-aid.

Basically the question is whether $4million is the norm for 2nd line players. And I'd say yes it is, and I don't really see a problem with that either.

@yave1964

Ha, you know they say about great minds...

I think Babcock is a great coach, but I wonder sometimes if the Wings are better parting ways. They are a bit stagnant right now and I think part of that is coaching. He picks his favourites and runs with them, and I think that has hurt some of the young players in the past.

But congrats to him for getting the nod for the Olympics again- hopefully he, and the team, can win another gold for Canada.

@jammer2 Frk has an overage season left but is expected to make Grand Rapids. He has been nothing short of impressive in the development camp.

Red Wings management was in constant contact with him all last season and even took him aside to get his head out of his ass and to start playing hockey. Between that and his father visiting Frk completely turned his season around and hasn't looked back since. The guy has been a stud since he arrived in Halifax. Had he not have received that concussion in his draft year he would have been draft much, much higher.

Good to hear positive comments about the guy from someone with first hand viewing experience. From what I've heard he might have to work on controlling his temper a bit better and that he isn't all that persistent on the back check. That is something that can be worked on though, and Detroit seems to be pretty good at helping prospects get better defensively.

I voted Taylor Hall.

I don't think that it is a bad deal. I would have guessed he would get $4.5 million based off of this past season, and then they overpaid a bit for the last 2 years to eat up a couple of UFA years. He's a good player with real potential, and if he plays like he did this past season throughout the contract, it is worthwhile.

So yeah. I don't have a problem with it.

Just following the money. Don't blame him that much, but it gets weird seeing the guy in so many different jerseys at this point.

If you ask me this question 100 times, I'd answer Claude Lemieux 100 times (well, Pronger might be thrown in there once or twice). Absolutely can't stand the guy. My opinion is obviously a bit tinted.

Samuelsson, Hextall, Simon, etc are all good choices. But Lemieux is my go to.

That is a bit of a slow way to start "Rivalry Night", but in general I've found that they do a decent job of finding interesting match ups. At any rate, I'm always happy to see hockey broadcasted nationally.

If you need a PK specialist. At ES, Murray's Skating is league worst and guys use him for Pylon practice.

He is a recipe for swedish meatballs and pain meds in front of the net and in the corners though.

I think they'd also need whoever signs to fill a top 4 role rather than a bottom pairing one, so I'm not sure that Murray fits the bill. But they definitely do need a net clearing presence.