HockeyFan

With Downie being a UFA, does this start the "rebuilding" we're never supposed to have? He is more expensive now, but can come off the books later...

I have a feeling that 20, if not more; teams out there are looking at what is happening here, and laughing. Internally, of course. (Besides, so many have Flyer Alumni, they won't say it publicly -- after all that annual carnival invite is something they don't want to lose.) Trade? Sure. Why, in October; would most teams offer "even or better" as a trade for any of our roster? That is not to say there is a void of talent... but as per the calendar, it is NHL week ... 3. Has anyone seen Laviolette since his dismissal? Snowden only wishes he had that type of protection. This is not the post I wanted as my "return to the board" But wow...

Understood, however; perhaps it was worth trying to get his brother earlier...

Kimmo, drafted in the 10th round, says hei.

So is the idea the Flyers can be a club in financial need in 3-6-7-10 years when the next CBA expires and the league has its 4th lockout?

There is quite a bit of finer details to be worked out. As alluded to above, what is and is not hockey related revenue is one of those finer details. To me, it would seem anything related to the presentation of the game that makes money (i.e. revenue -- after overhead and expenses) are what the players want an equal piece of. Parking revenue derived from people driving to attend a game? Concession sales? Approved logo merchandise sold at the arena/team owned locations? From what I have seen/heard/read this is a major sticking point, with each owner wanting to count these numbers in a different way. Another fine point: Contract length. Forget the 5-year contract clause. Given the track-record, contracts should not exceed the term of the CBA. Obviously players don't like any limits. I would feel much better about a deal being made if they were actually working towards a deal, and not grandstanding. The owners claim this is their last best and final offer; but hope to resume negotiations. The PA brings in three contracts, which apparently can be read and dismissed in 12-15 minutes. While I am sure they are taking a closer look at things behind the scenes, it is not helping their PR war on either side...

I double checked this, because I was a bit fuzzy, but some of the expansion teams are approaching (or even at) 20 years old. Sure, maybe they didn't have a chance until the last CBA... but they have had the time to establish fan base, support, and as you say; money. The second six teams were but 25 years old when this latest round started. For these teams, created under Bettman's guidance, they only know lockouts when it comes to bargaining. Revenue sharing goes a long way to make the NFL successful, and you are right, many (if not most) Flyers fans don't want to hear about how (insert dead cap space % here) is benefiting Nahsville or allowing Minnesota to sign top talent to long-term deals (then gripe about expensive long-term deals). But support is also key - as you also nailed. Sure, people are moving south; but how many are rescinding their fandom of a specific team? Thanks to the Internet and cable/satellite - and how the league even markets itself - watch your team anywhere. Sure, the most die-hard fan will enjoy going to their new home team, maybe even become a 78'er for that team. But that has not been the experience of the Florida franchises, which actively advertise to foreign fan bases to help sell tickets. Winning the Cup in Tampa, Anaheim, or even New Jersey has done little to stoke interest or generate huge in-person in-game fan base. It certainly woke one in Chicago. Of course, even the mighty NFL, with its revenue sharing and franchises working to benefit the league, has not found a way to make a team profit and stay in LA.

I would hope so, but I have read some stuff that says otherwise, that the NHL wanted to punish teams that circumvented the unwritten spirit of the last CBA. (Sort of like that guy in Detroit complaining about using the offer sheet.) I am not sure about its legality, but I would love to see that lawsuit - NHL Owner vs. the NHL on a deal that they would have had to vote to accept (I would think.) In other news, I firmly understand why the players would want 100% of the contract they signed 12 hours before CBA expiration. As for opting out of contracts, it seems the only published relief at this time is the ability to exceed a lowered cap. And wait a second... if you are lowering the cap number, that was supposed to rise and fall based on league revenue, how are you accomplishing that? Seven percent of the current established cap number is ("only") $4.914 million... Maybe the league or the NHLPA should go for the nuclear option, and rewrite all contracts? I don't ever see either side ever agreeing with that, but wouldn't that give NHL Network a bunch of new stuff to cover... Punishing teams retroactively makes no sense, but there are many other things that make no sense coming out of the league.

That has always really bothered me, and every league does it. I understand, even though the game really doesn't matter, you still need to pay the overhead of hosting the game. Still, full price for that is crap.

Last time, since the CBA ended before they started collecting money, there were no payments due. It is an interesting ploy by the owners, I guess, to show something to the fans. That said, I'm not feeling too bad yet about not renewing after last season. If anything, this should at least stop the calls still trying to bring me back...

It's funny how this conversation can really only happen in sports. Apple would never revenue share with HP and Dell to prop-up their respective PC markets. Ford, which managed to avoid bankruptcy and bail-out money didn't need to help GM. The founders of Burger King and McDonalds were good friends, but certainly didn't do each other any favors. I don't see state governments playing nice with each other, either. What is a successful team? Toronto hasn't seen the post season since Roenick's OT goal in 2004 -- back when we though Robert Esche was our goalie of the future. Or was it Sean Burke? Yet they sell-out. Phoenix, as a city, is roughly the same population as Philadelphia. Could they charge Philly prices? No. Would icing a competitive team entice and ignite a fan base there? They averaged 12,000 a game and closed out the year leading the division the eventual Stanley Cup Champion came from. Nashville, a team that lost one star free agent came close to getting poached through a collectively-bargained maneuver that many saw as unfair and "not nice." Their ownership stepped up, and let's see how their fans respond -- and I don't mean simply attendance at games. The other leagues indeed have some form of revenue sharing. The other leagues are also much-more in the forefront of consumer minds, at least in the US. I think the NHL has gotten a little bit better at marketing the individual, but for a sport that espouses such a team effort, it really seems forced. Then of course there was that whole Stan Lee tie-in... Will throwing money at other teams via revenue sharing really help them in the long run? Will it shore-up Phoenix and grow that franchise? How are there two teams in the continent's largest media market that have narrowly avoided bankruptcy? Even with on-ice success? I think the cap did help the league overall the last 7 years. Clearly there were some oversights that various cunning GMs came up with... I think some of the proposed changes are silly... such as not allowing differing values of cap hits to stop front-loading or rear-loading contracts. To me it would make more sense to just let the cap hit per year change. If a player and a team wants a decade long deal, so be it... but there is no reason their 2022 cap hit should equal their 2012 cap hit. There is still roster- and contract-limits, after all... I don't think I need to be a fan of a bankrupt or failing team to understand what revenue sharing can provide. My intent is not to be selfish... it is to ask a serious question... where is the fan base to support some of these franchises? Again, this does not need to be represented solely in attendance figures -- TV share, Merchandise, or even the mind-share to watch an event at a sports bar in a city without causing an uproar because one of 30 TVs isn't showing football...

It's amazing how much Hartnell has "grown into" his role as a Philly athlete. Thing is, has his personality changed that much? Sure, his work ethic (and results) have certainly improved. However, he managed to do something few other athletes here have done. So many could not/would not handle the taunts that were leveled at him, yet he turned it into a rally cry of sorts and backed it up with charity. It's easy to root for a guy that knows who he is and runs with it, then to suffer at the altar of ego. Oh, and when was the last time a NHLPA rep got a 6-year deal from the Flyers during a CBA year?

But it is a very accurate one. It's sort-of like the counter-offer. My most-recent former manager always declined to make a counter-offer, saying that once an employee moves out the door to take a better deal elsewhere, that's it. The only counter-offer I ever received after resigning validated my exit... I was already grossly underpaid (based on market) and they offered me a whopping $1200 extra (per year) to stay.

I made no mention of the intentions of said agent; only that all "talk" was done via the agent -- not the player. It saves Weber's face a bit, he did not bash Nashville or their fans. Of course it is the agents job to get top dollar. Right or wrong, that is their job.

It always takes (at least) two to make a deal for any player that is not UFA. If no other moves are made, we will have more cap space available then we have since the cap that "Mr. Snider" agreed to -- oh yeah; he may secretly hate it, but he went with the rest of the group -- to make the team better. Maybe for once, we'll use that money wisely -- unlike certain other teams in this town; the Flyers, at least in the last 20 years; were never accused of being the cheap skates. Only the Eagles won the Salary Cap Remainder Balance Cup. Hell, even the Phillies found their inner-Amex the last few years...

We saved ourselves from ourselves. There is really no other way to look at it. Weber played this well -- his agent was the one saying he was pointing out the door. Same agent now says how happy NAS ownership stepped up. Agents do what they do.

It's not like THIS changes the perception around the league. In fact I think it oddly helps Nashville... Just maybe not that much a consolation to their fans.

First round picks are nice to have, but we tend to either trade the pick, or trade the player we drafted anyway. Sure, past results don't mean ****, but it is interesting when you look over those we called first over the last few years, and what we did with them: 1995 Brian Boucher Traded 2002. 1996 Dainius Zubrus Traded 1999. 1998 Simon Gagne Traded 2010. 1999 Maxime Ouellet Traded 2003. 2000 Justin Williams. Traded 2004. 2001 Jeff Woywitka Traded 2003. 2002 Joni Pitkänen Traded 2007. 2003 Jeff Carter Traded 2011. 2003 Mike Richards Traded 2011. 2005 Steve Downie Traded 2008. 2006 Claude Giroux 2007 James Van Riemsdyk Traded 2012. 2008 Luca Sbisa Traded 2009. 2011 Sean Couturier We own the rights to our first round draft picks for about 5 years on average, and Boucher the 1st, Carter, Richards, and Gagne are responsible for that number being that high. Frankly, we seem to have better luck with other teams first rounders. Of course, it's a vacuum looking at it that way - we got some good, and in some cases game changing players back in the trades. But make no mistake, the years we draft someone first overall, we trade that player -- they don't leave RFA/UFA. What value is a pick we are used to trading, or not having to begin with?

To me it's like tax day. If I am square, or getting a refund, I file immediately. If I need to send a check, it's mailed(/eFiled) April 15. Weber is a refund resulting in future captial gains.

I would agree -- and hey I hope we get him, it works out, and we all live happily ever after.

Somewhere Richards & Carter are saying "14 years... I bet he goes three before getting traded"

Haven't we been doing leadership by committee for years now? Even when we had Richards/Pronger/Smith/Hatcher/Forsberg/Zamboni Driver with the official C? Hitch and Stevens loved the term "Leadership Group" I am not an athlete, but I work for a company that advertises in arenas, and even has naming rights to one. (Not ours.) In my opinion there needs to be a decisive leader, or at least someone that can play that part on TV. Even Primeau pulled that off. Richards got slagged because he was not media friendly, or so I read in the media. Forsberg (and Pronger) missed (miss) too many games. Smith was a leader, for sure; but that was a stupid contract ploy. Count me among those that think it should go to a vet - Timo, Briere, or even -- and I am actually saying this with a straight face -- Hartnell. Why #Hartnelldown? He's already survived the media, has re-earned the trust of the coach, represents the players in the union, and has been around a bit. Can he lead? Sometimes it's the devil you know, vs the stranger you don't...

How does one search to locate an image such as that? I'm perfectly fine with "Holmgren contract ****u" being keywords in the future... but what is the past?

The Professional Hockey Writers Association of America should send thank you notes to Holmgren for giving them a week's worth of content speculation in July. So Nashville-based media / affiliations think the Preds will match, while Philly based media thinks they won't.

It's been very interesting lately listening to Home Ice on satellite. There have been a lot of calls on the various shows from people that adamantly deny they normally root for the Flyers, but out of the remaining series they are behind us. These are callers that, based on where they claim they are calling from; would be fans of the Wings, Nucks, etc. Even one of the hosts has admitted he likes what he sees from the Flyers. Not sure if it is all temporary since it was the Pens we eliminated; or part of a bigger shift. But it is "scary" compared to the past, Roenick's first year comes to mind, when everyone expected us to get the cup because of the talent assembled. While there is still quite a long way to go, against a formidable adversary; it's been a nice surprise.