BobbyClarkeFan16

After watching this team in the playoffs, not only do I believe that JVR, Braun, Gostisbehere, Thompson and Grant are gone, but I think you can add Voracek and possibly Laughton to the list. I was hesitant on Fletcher doing a full house cleaning, but I think this core has shown they can't get the job done when it matters most. Too many mistakes and there's no sense of urgency from this group until it's too late. There's a sense of complacency in the room in that some guys have long term deals, so they won't get moved. That's going to go right out the window. And don't think Vigneault isn't keeping a list of guys that need to go. You know he's wanting some players out of there. 

I don't know if Fletcher's going to blow it up, but you can bet that someone or a few are going to be made examples of. I expect that Voracek and van Riemsdyk are going to be shopped hard and that they'll take pennies on the dollar to prove a point that no one is safe. 

The issue that I see with the Flyers is that there seems to be a lack of leadership amongst the players and that the guy you expect to hold everyone accountable aka the captain, is not that kind of verbal guy. It's been said on numerous occasions that Giroux is the silent leader and leads by example. This team needs a heart and soul kind of guy who isn't afraid to call the team out when they aren't performing. And that's exactly what we're witnessing - this team is under performing and everyone in that locker room should be embarrassed. It happened under Laviolette, Berube, Hakstol and now Vigneault. While Hak was trash, we're seeing a pattern emerge. When your big guns go silent and turn in putrid performances, someone needs to be called out and the captain has to do it. 

Now, I like Giroux. I really do and I'm not blaming this entirely on him. But as captain, part of your job is to hold everyone accountable. As much as I hated the guy, this team needs a Primeau type of leader who will hold his accountable and get everyone on the same page. And I don't see anyone like that. That should be Fletcher's mission this offseason - leadership and bringing in someone who will hold this club accountable. 

12 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Wow how did i overlook him...he basically outscored everyone to win the last series i have to put him in.

 

Damn...sorry JVR.

 

 

Giroux - Couturier - Aube-Kubel

Laughton - Hayes - Konecny

Farabee - Grant - Voracek

Raffl - Frost - Pitlick

 

Provorov - Niskanen

Sanheim - Myers

Ghost - Hagg

 

Hart

Elliott

 

I have the first line set up to try and G and Coots going but you could swap Jake and NAK if it looks like it isn't working.

 

I really like NAK on the first line. His speed and physicality alone would be enough to free up lanes for Giroux and Couturier. He's also defensively responsible and he's got good hands to chip in offensively. He's the guy they need to pester Barzal enough to throw him off his game. 

Frost fitting between Pitlick and Raffl is good idea as well. It gets Frost acclimated to playoff hockey and he's in a no pressure situation. This could be a surprisingly good fourth line that can forecheck and score some timely goals. I also think that Pitlick and Raffl are good veteran examples that Frost can learn from in terms of preparation and not trying to do too much. 

We need to get the PP going though. There's no reason why the club is as bad as they are. That's how they're going to have to beat the Islanders. The Isles PK is not very good and the Flyers need to exploit that. They aren't going to score many goals 5 on 5 against them, so the PP becomes of greater importance this series. 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

This is what i roll out game 1...

 

Giroux - Couturier - Aube-Kubel

Laughton - Hayes - Konecny

JVR - Grant - Farabee

Raffl - Frost - Pitlick

 

Provorov - Niskanen

Sanheim - Myers

Ghost - Hagg

 

Hart

Elliott

 

I know some may get upset about Frost but game one gives you time to experiment.

 

I wait if see if Morgan can replace Thompson. I want some more speed and skill in the line up and Frost fits the bill.

 

Let's see if he can stick. I would love for him to bump Grant to the fourth...but baby steps...

 

 

Where's Voracek? You know they aren't going to sit Jake in a series like this. Honestly, I'd move van Useless to the press box, move Farabee to the left side of Grant and have Jake on the right. 

This is thing to be a tough series, especially when the top guns are now firing blanks. 

This might be the ideal time for Vigneault to shake up the lines. Hell, maybe a series against the Isles might be enough to get them to use Frost at some point or another. 

I'd also like to see the defense generate a little more offense and really give the Isles pause for concern. 

The good news though is that the Canadiens helped them become a little more battle tested, so I expect someone like Provorov really step up his game to the next level. If Konecny snaps out of his fink and starts scoring again, this becomes a difference series. 

On 6/30/2020 at 3:20 PM, mojo1917 said:

I've been thinking about Wyatt Kaylnuk a little, what is his ceiling? I mean realistically, are we going to lose Ryan MacDoughnah for nothing? or will it be like losing Kris Russell? 

There are some really good young players ahead of him on the depth chart who are already in the NHL and will only get better. 

He's not going to be better than Sanhiem or Provorov, will he be as good as Meyers hell can he beat out Mark Freidman? who everytime I watch him plays like a real NHL player... I guess I'm saying, sure it's sad to miss out on a quality young man and player, but there are only 6 spots, he's being wise to want to see where he can play and earn immediately. 

At this point I'm not sure if losing him is poor asset management or an eventuality of picking and finding good players. This is the first time in 10 years i've felt this way about maybe losing a defensive prospect. 

The only thing anyone should be angry about is that the Flyers lost an asset. Now, can't blame Fletcher and Flahr for trying to sign him, but at the same time, the writing was on the wall that Kalynuk wasn't going to sign here. At the very least, a 4th or a 5th could have been had for him. 

With that being said, an overaged 7th round pick that was 20 when he was drafted isn't a big loss. The pipeline of defensemen is superb in Philadelphia. Not everyone will make it, but at the same time, having all this depth and talent is a blessing in disguise. Defensemen have such high trade value that if Fletcher plays his cards right, he can get some seriously good pieces in return to continue replenishing the pipeline or making a huge acquisition. 

The one thing I trust Fletcher with is defensemen. He and Flahr know defensemen and they have a track record there. When you consider that the Flyers scouting staff knows about forwards, this is a great mix going forward for the club.

54 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

fingers crossed on Patrick coming back.

I've had the chronic migraine symptoms that Patrick has and it's a problem that will be conquered. The good news is that the migraines aren't a result of post concussion syndrome or concussion issues. It's a legitimate medical problem. The fact he's been skating, working out and has been travelling with the team is very encouraging. Once the proper medical, diet and prescription treatment is reached, there's no reason why he can't come back. The issue is time and its going to take time. I think he plays on the 2020-2021 season and fourth line duty and special teams will be the best place for him to put it together. The other thing that could also be considered is a position change. Maybe he goes to the wing instead and takes less abuse there. It could also mean using him in various spots throughout the lineup. 

I get that in the eternal optimist but I believe this is something he will conquer. 

I haven't been paying as much attention to the draft this year, but as it stands, there are five players that I hope the Flyers are looking at with regards to their 1st round pick. I'm hoping for one of the following:

Perrault

Reichel

Foerster

Bordeleau

Khusnutdinov

I think we're good for defensemen in the first round this year. From watching video and reading scouting reports, Foerster is who I'm hoping they select. It's like reading the scouting report all over again for Lindblom - great iq, great hands, skating leaves a little to be desired because his stride is a bit awkward and that's only due to leg strength, which can be easily corrected. I love the fact that when Barrie moved Suzuki, Foerster stepped up his game and really took over. Clearly motivation isn't an issue for him and he's very coachable. 

I also really like watching Bordeleau, but what worries me is that he's a more perimeter player and is easily knocked off the puck. He'll need to learn how to survive in high checking areas. The skill is there, but the body is going to be a work in process.

The prospect that's the most interesting of the group is Khusnutdinov though. He could end up being a Russian Johnny Gaudreau, especially with his speed. It's unreal how fast he is. He also knows his way around all three zones and is very adept defensively. However, his speed is going to be his calling card. It's ridiculous how fast this kid is and his hands are there. He isn't like Rico Fata at all. If he grows 1 inch and hits the 5'10 mark and adds about 15 pounds, he'll top out at 5'10, 180 and could be a real gem. If the Flyers are looking for a grand slam, he might be the one. 

I think Fletcher might do a retool this upcoming offseason. Laughton will stay this offseason, but I can't be sure if he'll be around after that. I fully expect that Van Useless, Gostisbehere and Braun will be gone. Grant and Thompson are probably walking as well, maybe even Elliott and a player like Lyon. So, we know we're probably looking at:

Giroux - Couturier - Voracek

Laughton - Hayes - Konecny

Lindblom - Frost - Farabee

Raffl - Patrick - NAK

In terms of defense:

Provorov - Niskanen

Sanheim - Myers

Zamula - Friedman

As for the goaltending:

Hart

UFA or Trade Acquisition

What should be crazy is to see what we're looking at for the end of 2021. Not only do I think Laughton is going to go, but it won't surprise me if they try shedding Voracek as well, especially if Allison, Laczynski and Brink are ready to compete for spots.

12 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

Nobody is picking up Marner at his cap hit in a flat cap world. 

Someone will pick up Marner if he's on the market. Say what you want about the cap hit, but he's a 90 point forward. He's got Giroux-like qualities to him. Move him from the wing to center and Marner will be better off for it. If there's anyone in Toronto that should be moved, it's that dog Austin Matthews.

Fletcher has done a good job. Remember, he was under the gun in Minnesota by the new owner. Fletcher was basically forced to signing Suter and Parise to those ridiculously bloated contacts and the Martin Hanzal deal was basically an owner directive to Fletcher to make a trade or else. Owner incompetence messed things up in Minnesota. 

I don't think Fletcher will get the gun pointed at his head in Philadelphia and it's in part to who's surrounding him. I don't think the Dave Scott is going to try to bully Clarke and Holmgren into forcing Fletcher into bad deals. As well, Fletcher has an incredible scouting department at his finger tips, so there's less cause to make drastic deals. I think there's going to be obvious tweaks going forward (Braun is probably gone after this year and the next player to be worked into a spot will be Friedman and you can bet he'll try to get out from underneath the JvU -> James van Useless contract), but he doesn't need to make wholesale changes.

I've always like NAK, right back to his junior days. He's a good solid player. He's also a great case of what can happen when bad coaches sink their claws into you. Once Vigneault got him though, he got him fixed up. Honestly, NAK could end up being an Alex Burrows type player under Vigneault and there's nothing wrong with a potential 25 to 30 goal a season guy who can play throughout the lineup and will get special teams time in the future. That's going to be his bread and butter. He'll get peanuts for regular strength time, but he'll get boatloads of PK and PP time. He's a forechecking demon that also has that uncanny ability to always be around the puck. Honestly, he and Farabee are going to be real fun to watch as they mature.

Derek Grant is a point per game player with the Flyers. Let that sink in for a moment. I posted on another board and someone said he's this year's Ville Leino. I have to admit, he's outperformed what I thought he would do. Watch him go on to remain on that pace for the rest of the year.....lol

Don't forget that one of the other things Fletcher had working against him in Minnesota was the scouting staff. Let's be honest about this - the Flyers have one of, if not, the best scouting staff in the NHL. I get that Hextall gets a lot of credit for rebuilding the farm system, but let's not forget that he had a lot of help from the scouting staff. Fletcher is a lot of things, but being a fool isn't one of them. Same with Nature Boy Brent Flahr. Having a great scouting staff makes their job incredibly easy. I don't see why that would change.

2 hours ago, phlfly said:

Statistics meant nothing. As I'm living in DC area I watch some Caps games, and some those players I never heard but they are looked great in Caps. Just one name Wilson,, avg player but look like "Giroux'' playing with top lines !. Just saying. Giroux is just no good, as to be a leader of the team.He needs to go and may will change Flyers line up eventually, as now they are building around him. 

Just stop making an ass out of yourself when it comes to Giroux. The man has been the ultimate Flyer. Giroux has done nothing but carry this club on his back when Holmgren emptied everything and Hextall didn't bother trying to fill it with pieces to help Claude. That's the reality. As for being an 'average' player, that truly shows how much of an idiot you really are if you believe that. Yeah, he's started a bit slow this year, but with Couturier, Lindblom and Konecny picking up the offensive slack, it's allowed Giroux time to adjust to yet ANOTHER new system. As for Vigneault calling him out, Vigneault knows that Giroux can deliver more and this isn't about a sign of disrespect, it's a sign of Vigneault knowing that and lighting a fire under Giroux, which is working. Now that Claude is up to 9 points in 13 games, you can see that he's beginning to get on a roll and when he does, that's when he starts scoring points in bunches, which means the Flyers will then have two legitimate scoring lines. Don't forget either that Vigneault has played Giroux on the wing and at center and has bounced him with multiple linemates while trying to find a legitimate third center to balance the club.

I'm sorry, but all this talk of Giroux and moving him pisses me off. People here are so quick to turn on a guy that has given his everything to this club and it pisses me off even more when people make up such ridiculous **** about the guy. Tom Wilson couldn't sniff the sweat off of Giroux's jockstrap. I'm willing to bet that if the Flyers move Giroux, it sets them back four or five years, guaranteed. Move Giroux and Giroux being average. Stupidest bunch of crap I've ever read.

It's not even game 20. That's usually when they come to life. Right now, it's all about changing the mindset in Philadelphia. The play is actually there, but these are guys who are still afraid to make mistakes. The direction is there and you can catch it in glimpses when things are firing on all cylinders. 

Of note, look at Vigneault's history with the other teams he's coached and the play has been the exact same in the first year. The first 20 games are usually the time it takes for the system to come together and then everything takes off in the final 60. As long as they are closer to 500 I'm content. 

I don't think Patrick even gets a three year. He might get a year or two. Fact is, he's got some competition now with Frost and Rubtsov waiting in the wings. If he doesn't take off when he returns to the lineup, he might be used as trade bait. 

On 9/27/2019 at 11:42 AM, OccamsRazor said:

Well some encouraging news for the kid...

 

 

More important than hockey is his quality of life after hockey...i don't want to be selfish and i am hoping he does what's best for him.

How much do you want to bet that the team is going to go out and hire the best neurologists there are. That would be a game changer on so many levels. 

I said it back at the time of Nolan Patrick's draft and I'll say it again - Cody Glass was the guy I hoped the Flyers would draft and I still stand by that to this day. Patrick has done nothing impressive and is incredibly brittle. I honestly expect another 35 point season from him and then I think he's gone at the draft.

35 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Wrong guy... that's Bunnaman lol. But I think Twarynski has the same Bobby Clarke smile.

 

I think he's definitely earned a spot!

Bunnaman has the Bobby Clarke smile and he and Twarynski should make the club. They've been excellent this training camp. The bottom six will definitely be younger, bigger and faster from last year, not to mention more skilled. 

We should see the end of scrubs like Andreoff, Gabriel, Stewart, etc... 

2 hours ago, brelic said:

I’m really curious to see who makes this team in the end. Rubtsov had the early edge, then NAK had a really strong game, now Tawarynski is boldly stating his case. 

 

Competition is good. 

There's no reason all three can't make the big club. Twarynski can be used on a line with Laughton and Raffl. He bounces Pitlick. As for NAK and Rubtsov, they go to the third line. NAK is the right winger while Rubtsov fills the center role during Patrick's latest health issue. Works out perfectly fine. Once Patrick comes back, the Flyers can decide what to do with Rubtsov and NAK then. I mean, worst case Ontario is that Rubtsov goes to Lehigh Valley and NAK stays on the right side. Easy peasy nipple squeezy......

1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

One of the issues with the structure of the organization is that the Phantoms and the Flyers don't play the same system. Boston does, and you can see it. Everyone does the same thing, regardless of the level where they spend most of their time. 

That's why I have hope that Gordon will get fired in Lehigh Valley and a disciple of AV will take over in Lehigh and get everyone on the same page.

As for the 18 cuts, it was pretty much players that I didn't think would make the big club this year. No shame in that either. Guys like Ratcliffe and Sandstrom are going to benefit from it and a guy like Pascal Laberge has basically missed nearly two full years of development, so there's some benefits to him going to a low pressure environment and finding his game again.

I do like what AV has done though in terms of seeing him grab the reins and he's dictating how things are going to be run. I don't know if this merits it or not, but something tells me Kevin Hayes is going to be his 'Keith Primeau' in terms of a veteran player who will relay the coach's message to the rest of the team. I wonder though if that will bend Giroux's nose out of shape in that the message isn't coming from him.......

I don't get why people are doubting Provorov all of a sudden. He had a bad year. It happens to EVERY player in the league. Good God, this nonsense of whether Ivan will develop into a top tier defender is laughable. 

It shouldn't take long to get TK done. No matter what, he's coming in significantly below $6 a year. I can see a 6 year deal also, in the neighbourhood of $5.25 a year. Provorov was going to be the priority. The good news though is that there's a bit of money left over, so Konecny will get paid.