aziz

So, they WERE lying that the kid jumped 100+ spots on all scouting lists over the course of one season, including starting out entirely unranked on one prominent list? Pretty ballsy of them to just make really specific things like that up.

well, similarly, i see a hot dog defenseman who is willing, no, excited to abandon defensive responsibility to make flashy end to end rushes, challenging forecheckers one on one as the last man back, spinaramas at center ice, dangling in situations where if he loses the puck it'll be a breakaway against, and i run for the hills. pure flash is bad enough in a forward, in a defenseman it is death. subban has come a long way in adding depth to his game since then (though there is still a way to go before he can actually be called defensively reliable), but at that point, no way would i want my team to draft a dman like that. also, i doubt subban literally lifted the fans out of their seats. it would take more hands than he had at the time.

'course, as soon as you establish a rule of thumb, someone points out Chicago has ten players with movement restrictions on their roster.

the agent would need the explicit permission of the GM to discuss anything of the sort with another GM. and i agree, that is only given in the very odd circumstance.

exactly. to emphasize my point, though, detroit themselves left them both on the table for 6+ rounds. if they had the slightest idea what those two were going to become or even could become, there's no way they let them sit that long and risk someone grabbing them, either by similar scouting or pure chance. they let them sit because they figured the two were round 6+ material. and got really lucky that wasn't the case. but yeah, that's what it is. lucky choices. giving the players the right opportunities and development and all that, but it begins with lucky choices.

there are several combinations of players whose cap hits would equal that. and not all of them would we be terribly angry to see leave. i dunno about buff, but kane, they HAVE to deal kane. people talk about dealing from a position of weakness; what's going on up there right now is as weak as it gets. make up whatever trade scenario you want, but when it comes right down to it, the jets may just be happy to have the thing done with whatever they can get. luongo was dealt, with a bit of nothing, for a pair of nothings. just to have it done. i'll be a little surprised if kane isn't a flyer 24 hours from now. july 1, at the latest.

I guess. Those agents for paid, and paid well. I don't know how "don't sign with the Flyers" they really are. My take is that holmgren never liked waiting games or bidding wars or being in the mix. He saw a player he wanted, and did what he needed to do to win that player outright. Which meant offering enough for the player and the agent to not bother going back to other parties. Not the wisest way of dealing, but there it is. He wasn't forced to offer big because his reputation required it. He offered big to ensure he got what he was looking for. As misguided as that was at times. I think players and agents around the league at the Flyers as having deep pockets, and have little compunction with leveraging that. If your client is an FA, then definitely talk to the Flyers, because if they're interested, they traditionally will come out of the gate with an offer no one else can or will match. Not the most forward thinking approach, but effective in the short term. As for the players who picked up huge contacts and then were unexpectedly dealt... They got more money than anyone else would have given them, and continue to get that wherever they end up. It isn't cool that they were surprised by being sent elsewhere, but that's pro sports, put on your big boy pants and deal with it. None of the players so handled by the Flyers have cause for bitterness. Richards and Carter won two cups, brizgalov earned a normal paycheck on top of his buyout, jvr had a career season following his trade. Briere's and Hartnell maybe have a minor beef, but their salary to production ratio had a huge hand in what happened, and they have to see themselves as part of the outcome. tl:dr - if anything, holmgren established a reputation for being willing to pay beyond top dollar for players he wanted, and why would a player or agent be unwilling to leverage that?

Who did hologram screw over? I mean, Nashville, but you said agents remember that crap. What crap? Carle?

Well, what does "sticking up for teammates" mean? Hartnell fought twice last season. Beyond that... Does puffing out his chest and talking smack really accomplish all that much?

this is where i'm liking the return of umberger. read is a somewhat better skater, and umberger is a somewhat more physical player...but they both have a bit of what the other has. with couturier distributing, i think that could be a very effective line at both ends of the ice.

i'm still not sure his skating is going to allow that next level. 20 years ago, luc robitaille could get away with being a poor skater but having great hands. not sure it works the same anymore. regardless, if couturier ends up being nothing but an ace defensive forward, that has big value and i'd call it a win. if he finds a way to become any kind of offensive force, so much the better.

the interesting thing there is, the flyers had someone better than the bruins in all statistical catagories other than ATOI and +/-. hits, blocks, points, PP points, etc. i kind of wonder what the term "impact player" on defense means, and if it might be driven largely by media coverage. can't go a day without hearing about the amazingness of zdeno chara, but he is outscored and outblocked by flyers' dmen, while turning the puck over and missing the net more than any flyers' dman.

@King Knut You make a good point, with the salary disparity between schenn and couturier. Thing is, it is couturier's deal that is causing it. Schenn signed a contract for average salary for above average production. Couturier's deal is probably about right for his offensive output, but it didn't take his defensive contributions into account. Well done, holmgren, but it had left the Flyers with the awkward dynamic you point out. That's on couturier and his agent, though, not schenn and hextall. It isn't realistic to have thought schenn was going to sign for less than median, given that --as far below where we think he could/should be as his production might be-- he has bettered 2/3rds of the league. He had no basis to demand more than that, but he certainly was within reason to ask for what he got. Funny how a contract win like couturier's can cause issues.

agreed, and i'm sure it factors in a bit. i think the money and short term prospect for success weigh in more than long term loyalty, but it is there. and i'm sure there are some players out there for whom loyalty is paramount. i just think they're rare. a big enough paycheck is enough for most. i don't think the flyers are going to have a noticeably more difficult time signing FAs, so long as they continue to be willing to sign the right contract.

right, but that is specific to long time players, guys who have a connection to the team and specifically want to be a flyer. i think most UFAs are less concerned with loyalty and more concerned with contract value and term. the NMC/NTC clauses aren't there to keep a player from moving, they are there to ensure the player has a say in where they move. potential signees are, i think, less concerned that the flyers might trade them a year into a long term extension, and more concerned with how they are going to get paid. i can't imagine VLC gives much of a crap about the flyers, he signed the best deal available, and is probably willing to play under that deal in any of several places.

The again, the players for their deals. The primary motivation for an agent is most money, right? Hartnell is bummed he was traded, because he'd been here a long time and was tossed aside. vlc won't feel the same, what does he care? He gets paid, his agent got paid.

Given, as you say, he has been impressive in his limited time recently, I have to think the reason the bruins let him go is so he can find a spot with a real chance to be a starter. Competition isn't always good, it can take the focus of where it needs to be. In other words, I think the opposing team is all the competition Mason needs. The Flyers need to find a backup who knows he's a backup. The Flyers have just found a solid guy in net, no upside to saying, "but maybe not....."

@JackStraw No, I agree, there isn't anything evil to this. It's a little... not good that the Flyers keep moving the players they sign to long term deals relative moments after the signing. But that is only so bad.

He also went to some length to talk about wanting to play for a team that actually wanted him, not one that had no use for him. Sounds like hextall had a pretty frank discussion with Hartnell. Of course there's a story there. If there is a story in Kim Kardashian's kid's birthday, there's a story in a GM having a "we don't want you here" talk with a fan favorite who just signed six year extension. It isn't an important story, but it is a story.

@King Knut Bonuses are not allowed on contracts other than ELC's and 35+ deals. Schenn' deal is all salary. If you look around the league, $2.5mil is on the low side for a 20 goal, 40 point player. Yes, there are exceptions, but on average. All I'm saying.

the average is also deflated by ELCs and thugs on league minimum deals. factor the 600 and some NHL players, including a few really high dollar deals, and a lot of really low ones, and you have a pretty solid median. the average player in the league...give me some examples. colton greening, say? $2.65mil. martin hanzal, maybe? $3.1mil. how about thomas kopecky, $3mil, even. i'd take b schenn over any of them. the average player in the league really does make a little more than $2.5mil.

I couldn't care a whole lot less about the sharks, but watching a dismantling of the Bruins makes me happy. Well done, Habs.

And for the ladies http://locker.stucknut.com/files/teamjoe/RonHextall.bmp Lol

I'm excited about this off-season. A fairly minor deal and a reasonable contact signing... But to me they have the team looking very different already. I almost feel like the guy at the wheel might be good at this whole build-a-team thing. Weird. Plus, http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wNGrhc2dfns/TsE3Tv0rUEI/AAAAAAAACg8/DMKRSL5f8SI/s280/3445907554_a5483a19f7_o.jpg

@ruxpin I'm with you. Hartnell did seem annoyed about it, though, and I guess that's where the story is. You have some waived ntc's where the player ends up saying, "The team is headed in a different direction, so it's time for a fresh start." when the player actually says, "The GM wanted me gone, so I left," there is a little extra spice. Plus, writers have deadlines and qquotas, so....