Howie58

Hello from S. Florida:

I don't see a big trade coming down the pike. But..and this is far-fetched, would you see a "dump" type trade (player for picks) as a means of increasing youth and decreasing cap hit? On that score, JVR for picks might a possibility. Our other "youth" might be untouchable. And now for a real shocker-would Homer ask Hartnell to waive an NTC to move? Maybe the brass thinks this is a once-in-a-lifetime season for the guy. Might the same hold for Briere? I agree with others that from a personal life standpoint he might not want to move. But who knows? Again,I think if there are any "major" moves I see a salary dump rather than a major roster shuffle.

Best,

Howie

Greetings:

SoCal raises the question of Lavy's style--this is clearly not your Grandpa's Flyers' squad. Defense/goal may not mean as much as in the past. And in post-Lockout NHL play, that may be the case. But I think that goal and D win Cups. Hence my concern as we enter the playoffs (hopefully).

As I've said before, we play in one of the most competitive divisions in the League, if not all the major sports. This weekend left me very concerned about our defense and D. Four goals should win most games but we lost to NJ. We seemed well on our way to coming back yesterday and couldn't keep them off the board. In theory our D should be OK. The same should be said for our goaltending. The numbers don't bear the latter out.

Homer's apparently good forward trades (and I don't hear complaints about Hartnell being overpaid) may pale compared to our goal situation. But this seems to be part of our DNA.

Best,

Howie

At least so far as I was concerned, the conversation was about whether or not Bob was principally at fault for the 6 goals against NJ. Now you're talking about whether or not Nitti got a decent shot in Philly. I really don't know the answer to the later but I think Bob's got talent and that Jeff Reese knows what he's doing, so I disagree with any suggestion that we should unload both of our goaltenders.

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Given that the early and large part of his career was spent with an organization that is the subject of this thread regarding their inability to handle goaltenders properly, I'm not putting that all on Niitty - much the same was Bob wasn't responsible for all six against the Devils.

His first season he split with Esche and they gave Esche the start in the playoffs (virtually identical stats). Esche then took the blame for the loss to Buffalo. Niitty was the goalie for the worst season in franchise history (which I think we can agree was not the goalie's fault) and never given a shot thereafter.

Bob, to me, is still an unproven commodity. I like what I see and I would like to see more of it, but I'm still not 100% sold.

Still, they seem to have done to Bob exactly what they did to Niitty.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Rad + Terp:

My main concern is with the organization not the individuals. The Quality Assurance gurus always make a point of saying that bad systems drive down good people. I am not sure the Flyers have been a good organization for goalies. Nitti may have been more or less--that one could be debated. But on the face of it, he was scapegoated (in part) for a bad season and with his hip labrum, got disposed of. But I admit that he did not run with the ball either in SJ. That said, I think the signing of Bryz, if I were in Bobo's shoes, has to be viewed as a strange move, and not necessarily uplifting. Reese may be a good guy. But his work may not matter much if he is not provided the best raw material or he is not given the time to develop people.

What's strange--and has been noted by several others in the past--is that Bryz was waived by Anaheim. Brian Burke is no dodo. We apparently didn't want to pay attention to warning signs.

Meanwhile, I think we head into the playoffs (hopefully) with a muddled goalie situation.

Peace,

Howie

Probably not as this team is unable to reside in a "growing" state. If they aren't challenging for the cup (or at least appear to be) then it's a losing season. The team doesn't have the patience to develop a goalie. In my mind, if they were, then Bob would be the prefect candidate... still is. I mean, we are only one season removed from his rookie season where he stole the starting job out of camp. If he didn't steal the starting job and instead came into the spotlight half way through the season as a stellar backup, I think he'd be viewed differently. If there was patience for growth though, Bryz wouldn't have been signed.

Spin:

Agreed, and that is why signing a Vokoun or Senior Statesman type would have made more sense than Bryz. I think we implicitly told Bobo he either trade bait or semi-disposable if his development was slow. As for the Cup Challenger every year...well, that would take a thread by itself...and when you consider we are now have the longest Cup dry spell other than the Leafs...makes you wonder.

Peace,

Howie

If Bryz gave up six goals in less than 30 minutes, we wouldn't be saying "I wouldn't throw Bryz under the bus" - we'd be driving the bus and backing up to see if we hit him hard enough.

Niittymaki was the MVP of the Calder Cup and the MVP of the Olympics - not bad for a guy without Bob's "natural talent/athleticism". Bob's playoff record isn't quite as stellar.

Since Bernie, this organization has not given a rat's ass about goaltending. It's why Bob Clarke is "Mr. Flyer" while Bernie Parent isn't - the organization believes that the forwards won the 74/75 Cups - not the goaltending. I have all the respect in the world for Clarke's Hart Trophies - but they seem to overshadow Bernie's Conn Smythe and Vezinas for the Flyers.

They've consistently gone for the cheap options - bringing in Cechmanek or Bobrovsky from Europe; taking Vanbiesbrouck over Cujo; reclaiming Boucher and plucking Leighton off waivers (twice). Sean Burke. Martin Biron. Robert Esche. Garth Snow.

Develop their own? They have spent four 1/2 round picks on goalies in THIRTY YEARS.

They haven't made the right decision on goalies since Bernie. They lucked into Lindbergh. Hextall had a brilliant rookie run. The team quit on Barber and blamed Cechmanek.

Aside from that, what?

Rad:

Good assessment. I think there is a definite blind spot. And the inbreeding we've had in top management may "nourish" it.

Best,

Howie

Can't and wouldn't defend Bryzgalov. However, I wouldn't throw Bob under the bus with him. The NJ debacle wasn't on him at all. Also, he's a very different kettle of fish from Nitty in that he has way more natural talent/athleticism. If we had a decent #1 you might be tempted to move him but he's the only good goaltender in the organization at any level. He's playing pretty well and we need to hang onto him.

Terp: I don't want to throw him under the bus either. That said, I think the organization may have done that by bringing in a youngish Bryz with a long contract. If they had brought in Vokoun or someone along those lines and said, "be this guys understudy while you develop," I would understand that. What they have done, from my vantage, is develop this guy to be a perpetual 1A or trade bait.

Again, I think the "organeyezation" is at fault.

Good to hear from you,

Howie

Greetings:

There are several threads on Bryz/Bobo. All are well-taken. But I am raising a question several of us raised a lot on the old forum: Is goal a blind spot with this franchise?

1) As for Bryz, the question is whether we are facing a lost year or a lost career? If we are having this discussion next year at this time I suspect Homer will bite the bullet and waive the guy and hope somebody picks him up at half price. Or maybe we try to waive him; both would "work" if someone thinks a change of venue will help.

2) Bobo--well, I suspect we have another Nitty on our hands. With Nitty a series of injuries and a lousy, lousy season may have derailed his career. But one way of the other--we moved on when the 1-1A with Esche didn't pan out. And with Bobo--the signals sent by the franchise seem to be "you are a goalie of the future, but probably as a super back-up or somebody's else's starter after a trade...."

Reese may help but the bottom line seems to be simple: Unlike LA or Nashville, we just don't seem to get goal. We can say that Snider was part of this one--he ordered Homer to pull a trigger. But that wouldn't have had to happen if we could either develop our own goalies or trade well. This is an organizational black hole.

Peace,

Howie

Howie:

Bear here.

Yes, today was utterly deflating. Young kids have heart. Boy do I like that as a change from last year. 2-3 years rebuilding we got a chance again, but..

How does Homer get out from under the G egg he laid. Why is Bryz not tradable? NTC? Is it the contract or the present performance, or both? If it was just the performance, is there not another GM that is desperate and would take the chance?

I doubt Leighton could clear waivers without some GM trying to pick him up as a steal.

BOI

Bear:

Good to hear from you. A belated Happy New Year!

I think there are two questions. One is Bryz. Is this a lost season or a lost career. If we are having this question next year I smell a waiver in the hope another GM will pick up half his salary on the assumption of a rebound.

The bigger question--and I may put it to the board--Is this franchise capable of drafting, recruiting, and nurturing goalies? I suspect there is a blind spot. Reese may have helped but I think there is a deeper problem.

Peace,

Howie

Bryz was utterly deflating today. It was painful to watch. He took out a great effort.

Homer cannot be happy. But I fail to see what we can do. Bobo is trade bait. Bryz is impossible to trade. In the main, Homer looks good dumping Carter-Richards. But Bryz outweighs the positives right now. What we don't know is if this is a lost season or a lost career for Bryz.

One way or the other...a defining weekend on the downside.

Best,

Howie

I hate to sound like a broken record, but can this team make any "big" trades without getting a handle on Pronger's future? I also think getting rid of our youngins, with the possible exception of JVR, seems like a bad move given their play so far and their potential. Briere...for reasons stated earlier is an unlikely move.

Best,

Howie

Everyone here knows who the #1 goalie should be. Case closed.

Still, according to Lavi, Snider, and Homer Bryz is the main guy. We all know Lavi HAS to say this, because if he says otherwise it makes Snider and Homer look like fools. But as a coach he's in a catch -22. If he plays Bryz the majority of the time he will lose his job because we'll suck...and in Philly when teams suck the coach takes the fall. If he says BOB is his starter he'll lose his job for not following orders and making mgmt look like idiots for signing Bryz (which they are).

In the end Lavi is dancing the line playing BOB enough to keep the team winning and playing Bryz enough to make Snider happy. However, there's a big elephant in the room and someone from mgmt needs to step in and say that BOB is the better goalie right now and that the coach needs to play the better goalie.

Other issues: I believe this 'run and gun' offensive system Lavi has them playing was devised with the hopes that Bryz would bail them out the majority of the time. But now we know that's not the case, yet Lavi still has them playing like this. I don't know about you but I'm just not comfortable having to put up 4+ goals a night to stay in games. I watched the replay of the Rangers/Winnipeg game and Tortorella has the Rangers playing the complete opposite style. They have the skill up front, but choose to play from the back end out in an almost 1-1-3 formation while we play a 3-1-1. Add Lundkvist to that system and they are almost unbeatable in a 7 game series at this point. So my question is, are we playing the right system with the personnel we have ? I'm not so sure.

SoCal:

I think you raise a valid question. But I guess the answer comes in a year. If the guy turns it around the second half, we are OK. If we are having the same discussion next year, then we are in trouble in terms of cap.

I will "respectfully disagree" with Bryz's gorilla status. I think Pronger is the bigger issue and Carchidi's article yesterday showing the nearly one goal difference when he is in the line-up speaks volumes. I am, like you a bit frustrated with the run and gun and don't see it winning a Cup. But beefing up the D will help.

From a long-term planning standpoint, Pronger's situation is a mess. If he retires or goes to LTIC, it is not so bad. But if we get an "on-again, off-again" return next year...yikes. I don't know how Homer plans in terms of cap and personnel with that prospect.

And on that score...when I hear talk of Suter, I have to wonder if what we are really asking is what the team will do: replace Pronger or go stop-gap on the assumption he comes back. I see a Suter trade as Homer's statement that Pronger's career is finished.

Peace and I am glad to see you in these parts.

Howie

Seven years ago he was the goalie of the future. Then the torn labrum and the strike. And then the worst season in our history. I suspect he goes to Europe.

Best,

Howie

@Howie58

Bryz was never this bad in the shootout or one on ones.

2010-11: 32 shootout attempts plus 3 penalty shots, 11 GA (.685 SV%)

2009-10: 62 shootout attempts plus 2 penalty shots, 17 GA (.806 SV%)

2008-09: 20 shootout attempts and 0 penalty shots, 10 GA (.500 SV%)

2007-08: 29 shootout attempts plus 1 penalty shots, 9 GA (.700 SV%)

2006-07: 13 shootout attempts and 0 penalty shots, 6 GA (.538 SV%)

2005-06: 0 shootout attempts plus 2 penalty shots, 1 GA (.500 SV%)

So what is so different in Philly compared to Phoenix or Anaheim?

Is it thelack of a positive mindset and practice effort with regards to the shootout? Bryz has previously stated that he dislikes it, which IMO is an invitation for failure. We then have a practice setting of the bad shooting on the horrible.

Thanks for the assessment. Brz's performance is the 6 million dollar riddle for which we have no answer. Maybe he Orange and Black give him some unnamed neurological problem.

Howie

Greetings:

This is not the Flyers kind of team I grew up with. This is offensive pedal to the metal rather than grind and D. That said, we made a great comeback yesterday and blew a lead on two relatively soft goals. The SO...yikes.

Howie

Greetings:

I hate to dump on this guy; maybe we see a year-end turnaround. But one of the most disturbing things I've seen with Bryz is his passivity during the SO. He does not challenge the shooters. Bryz sits back and lets them skate in.

Is this arrogance (he thinks it is possible to flash the pad or glove in a blink)? Or is this disengagement (he is really not attuned to what the hell is going on)? I posted this the last time he blew a SO; you'd think that Reese or someone would look at this films and see the "Groundhog Day" manner in which he plays goal in this situation--and threaten to ream his posterior if it continues.

Have a good week!

Howie

The problem with trading one of our d-men for a salary dump is that the ones who are making decent money are too good to dump without seriously hurting the team. If anyone wanted Walker they could have claimed him off waivers.

Jack: If Pronger is through, we might find ourselves going for a Suter type..but I may be senile. Seriously, Homer is Homer and this Schenn thing may be a smokescreen.

Meanwhile, Bobo is playing well tonight.

Peace,

Howie

So you're saying you're "tipsy"? I can see that.

I have fond memories of Foster Brooks. . . as long as there is no drinking and driving.

As for a trade...I could see Homer letting one of our current D-men go as salary dump; he might take a pick. The forwards are a good crew. He might want to preserve them.

Peace,

Howie

Greetings:

I'll harp on my usual point. This is a different team than what we grew up with.

On the upside--this is not a dump-and-chase group that has had a tough time getting out of its zone. This team has good puck movement. Seravalli should have noted that...under Stevens, we looked lethargic half the time.

On the other hand--our GAA (and let's throw out the save percentage for the time being) is "non-Flyer" I have a tough time figuring out if that is some actors playing beneath their potential or the aging of others. Defense is also a responsibility of non-D personnel. Is Lavy making that clear?

Best,

Howie

Hey Howie,

I hope this is a new level. Just based on the confidence he has with his passing - which was never his strong suit - that tells me that he's maturing as a player. 10 of his 18 goals have come when we were either trailing by 1 or tied. He's becoming more clutch, though I'm sure alot of that is the byproduct of playing with Giroux and Jagr, who themselves are very clutch players.

But his PIMs are also down from his average as a Flyer, which is another indication of maturation and self-control. Take away the two misconducts he got over the past week, and he would be looking at his lowest career PIM total. He still has the sandpaper to his game, but he's just smarter about it.

I hope you are right. The guy has taken his share of criticism on the boards and in the media. He has a good attitude.

LGF,

Howie

Hartnell started off slow, getting points in just 2 of his first 7 games. But then he exploded, and he has points in 22 of the next 31 games, on pace for about 80 points.

And how about that pass last night, facing away from the play, right on JVR's stick? That was the kind of move you'd expect only from Giroux.

I was kind of down on him through camp and in the early season, but man, not only has he completely turned it around, he's also much more consistent this year than before. He has not gone more than 2 consecutive games without a point this year. Compare that to last year when he was held pointless in 45 of 82 games, and six times he had a pointless streak of 4 or more games.

Even when either Jagr or Giroux has been out, Hartnell continues to do the small things on the ice and helps out the team.

I don't know what's responsible for the transformation, but I sure as hell like it. This is the guy we all hoped we were getting when we made that trade 5 years ago. He's 29, and maybe just now hitting his peak.

Good Morning!

Your last point is interesting. It says that some folks develop fast, and some don't. I guess the question is whether this is a new level or a blip? Who knows?

Best,

Howie

@trevluk

I feel your frustration, but I definitely care that they won. Isn't that the point of all this?

Sip, I think the concern is that if it weren't for last minute heroics, we were blowing two points on what seemed like serious defensive lapses. I agree with others on this thread: tonight was not Bryz's off-night. Team D got sloppy. We are 21st in the league in GAA. That is very strange for a Flyers' team.

Peace,

Howie

Atleast we're the best at something and get credit for it.

Not so great to be recognized for this...

Howie

@Howie58

Homer was looking for another Michael Leighton to ride to the Finals.

LOL: That is funny. Nashville and LA seem to grow goaltenders. We seem to destroy them.

Best,

Howie

Another spin on this...we just aren't great judges of goal talent. This guy was supposed to be a real deal. I guess that has not been the case. I thought he was a bit old to be starting an NHL career, but who am I to say?

Howie

Hello All!

I suspect Bryz goes back. I am not enthralled but he is the "starter." Frankly, I hope they trade Bobo for vet who accepts the role and we move on. Bryz needs to get his footing. If not this season, then next. if that doesn't pan out, we have a real problem.

We need to see good performance against top teams. We blew it against the Rangers. This is a redemption game of sorts.

Best,

Howie