LegionOfDoom

@murraycraven I see where your going with this, but I know someone else brought up the point that, Briere is only good for the playoffs and that what good does it do if we're not in it. What's the point of having him. I don't know how long some of the posters have been Flyer fans, and I know some have been for a long time because they can recollect my points that I bring out from the past. But this is it in a nut shell: You need certain talents to have a greater chance in the playoffs. ( I can clearly remember players that where nobodies during the regular season and all of a sudden became lethal during the playoff season...aka Claude Lemieux as an example). 1. We need a game changeing goalie. (Mason? who knows too soon) 2. We need a team to play defense. (Didn't happen this year, along with bad outlet/support passing) 3. We need a team to contribute offense(defensement included) 5 on 5 and Special Units. (Our D helped little, Mez was our catalyst/Timo did toward end.) 4. We need role players to support the team.(Fedetenko, Talbot, Simmons(skillful/talent),Zac(hits/untangebles) and a few others possibly) 5. Playoff snipers can get you to the next round.(The only actual snipers with a history was Briere, and Gagne, Hartnell was becoming an anomaly, G was takeing steps towards it, with a young Read and a glimpse of B. Schenn, Jake? the book is still out on him, but it's becoming an interesting read now.) 6. Mental resiliency to comeback from setbacks.(Not this year, one of Richard nice traits.) 7. Sacrifice your body for the greater cause.(Team was sporadic, but we were showing this with Grossmann, L.Schenn, and Timo.) These are just a few main points for a team to consider if they are serious about winning the cup. Now are all these points needed? The probabilities of making it to the finals and then winning it won't be in your favor without them, but it can happen. Case in point. I think we had more of those points then Chicago did, yet they came out on top, because of bounces going there way and us not capitalizing on ours. Now if some of you were GMs and you want to go with buyouts and trade for youth in mind. Then the Cup is not for you any time in the near future. And you need to walk the walk. Maybe there should be a head count: who is in it to rebuild, and who is in it to win it now. The ones in it for now, will always be of the mindset of looking for the missing piece. The ones that are in to rebuild, can't get ruffled to easily when young players are still going through growing pains. We can't have it both ways, and unfortunately The brass has made a murky line so that this is not clear. And they haven't put out a product to let us know which way they're headed. I don't blame anyone but them, whether good intentions(offer sheets) or not(no contingency plans), that is the product they assembled this year. This next season will be more telling of the indicator of the state of Philadelphia Hockey, than the year we looked at the Playoffs from an outside window.

If the Flyers have to get rid of Briere, I would rather it be a trade. He has value, especially in the Playoffs. I wouldn't just dump an asset. I would trade him for D. Like Caluso said if we were to trade him to another team and he was bought out, he can sign for cheap next year. He still has locker room value as well. People take pain killers to make the pain go away but aren't taking care of the problem only the symptoms. Briere's performance isn't the problem. It's the symptom. The problem is he is playing out of position. Put him IN position to succeed. Not every forward is versitile. Not every forward can play off position. He lacks size And strength to compete on the boards. You don't bring out your Camaro to pull your boat, you Use your Truck or Van to do that job. The sports car is for the driveability and show stopper. People need to understand the symptoms and the underline causes. Not handle them the other way around, we need Danny, on And off the ice. Put him in the line I mentioned...Like Nike, Just Do it' We have youth....Whatt about all our YOUTH!!.....sigh(ba ba loop soup^ ^ ^ ^ ) Now the Ducks are looking for a center....If we were to trade Briere to Anaheim for Bobby Ryan and considerations....and maybe Briere can come back at a home town discount to finish his years with the Flyers in the future, I wouldn't mind that trade going down. I hear Anaheim is an ok place to live.

@caluso Man calu, that's why I enjoy this forum, when a thought can come into focus and was not in the box. I applaud you for that. I think we could do that with L.A. and maybe a draft pick for Bernier, and maybe considerations. Though I would want Briere back here, next year, but I would have a feeling he would like it in L.A. I don't think Danny has hidden away, as to more he has been juggled at position. I say this with a poignant stare face. You put Hartnell/Briere/Voacek on a line next year, and see how the goals will flow. I posted lines in another thread and still stand by them. Imagine having Briere with a 2.5 cap hit per year. You want to stay in Philly after Philly has been good to you....Be good to Philly ehhh' If I'm wrong, I'll skate with the ice girls for a game.

@ruxpin I'm Briere supporter and my post was directed more for Fighter' he said we didn't have a sniper and Briere is Golden. I want him to stay and finish his career here in Philly. Redo his contract at a low 2.5 - 3.0 til he retires year/deal. Classy team guy. Even though he does his little cheap shots once in a while to the opponents. Same now with Gagne, another sniper, and playoff performer. That's two counting....and Giroux is no slouch at scoring, just this year. And what about Hartnell, never thought last year he'd be up there. Who had the most goals amongst rookies last year.....READ!!! should I go on. we had the most goals by rookies last year. Team Defense and lack of focus was our downfall this year. That's why a Pronger or Jagr is needed for these guys to right the ship. To many rookie cooks in the kitchen, who don't know how to cook it right, if you got the time, we got the skillet.

interesting facts on brayden schenn/courturier/laughton.... Those are interesting facts for forcasting players. The WORKING term forcasting. Casting forth a thought does not give any guarantee on the outcome, but can be a strong indicator. Chris Gratton ring a bell. Forcasted to be a great second punch to the Flyers team. The cloud storm just kept sailing away.... Don't Put your finger on the trigger to soon dude, you might shoot your other foot off too. These guys are young still. Do NOT count this twilight zone of a season, if you want to do any good to yourself and the fanbase, wierdererr'er' things are yet to come. Like this years winnner of the Stanley Cup, bet you'll never know who it will be...go ahead guess....I dareya' We have a SNIPER... who is the best as they come, ESSSPECCIALLY in the Playoffs....drum roll....prrrrrrrrrrrrr... Danny Briere! That's right folks Mr. CLUTCH himself, here before your very eyes. Whataya gat ta say bout that' awwwk! I know, I know you want to buy him out, and sail him away from town. Don't be a PME, this guy has alot of worth still....perception ma' boy....acuity, son.

It's a dicey situation about who gets the buy out Briere or Bryz, From a business standpoint it would be both. But I would let Briere know that he needs to carry more weight next year if he wants to stick around and be playing for his career here in Philly. Agree that he is talented and he is getting paid top dollars and the Team has players waiting to fill roster spots. To thank him for his services and let him know Corporate wants a buyout and it's up to him to prove he wants to stay on the team. He has one year to stick around and Play hockey and prove his money. Bryz is a situation where his production, whether blame is put on his team mates or season is not producing Top dollar results. He has to make himself be a difference maker for his wanted big money paycheck or Corporate is asking for a buyout as well. In regards to Jake being on the other line, it would booster up that line, but if Briere is bought out, then he would be doing well on G's line as well.

Gagne should definitely be resigned. for all the above reasons. The lines I would put out there would be: McGinn/Giroux/Gagne Hartnell/Briere/Voracek Simmonds/Couturier/Read Rinaldo/Schenn/Talbot And don't start about saying Schenn would be wasted on the 4th line, because there is no "4th" line you role four lines and you use your tools accordingly, wave after wave after wave after wave, The opposition needs to be bombarded, relentless Flyers Hockey. Team defense, Team offense. The 1st two lines I would role the second two I'm up for suggestions, the way I see it, according to team mate quotes, "McGinn sure gives us room out there, he has a nose for the net and is fun to play with" Claude Giroux. You have a sniper in Gagne who can finish, you have Claude who can dish it out or score either way and McGinn who can create space and isn't afraid to go to the net and shoot and isn't afraid to drop the gloves for his line mates. Hartnell and Briere with Leino were almost highlight reels and were fun to watch, I see Voracek actually able to bring these guys careers back to life and create a synergy with that line that would be dynamic. We use to rely on that line so much when Ville was around and needed that scoring punch. Jake would be good with Giroux, but would serve better for the team with Briere. Simmonds is a very smart and talented player who could use a player like Coots to feed him the puck and be the recipient of a Simmer pass as well. Sean would be with a hard working line that has talent. Read is an awesome pickup that is fast and when he plays with his instincts and doesn't think too much is another quality 20-30 goal scorer who can take some of the distraction off those guys with his play. Rinaldo would blossom more offensively if he had a player like Schenn who can play hard too and can shoot the puck, if Rinaldo goes for the rebounds and scores off a cycle he'll start putting up more points and assists to go along with his improving role on the team. Talbot would add veteren presence and I think help Schenn's defensive game out were they could form a PK type unit or an offensive shut down line.* These comments are subject to change upon future considerations and player movement.

fRUit Sa-laD yuu-mmmy yummy! fRUit Sa-laD yuu-mmmy yummy!

ha ha godt

Do you want this kid to get better or toss him out? Do you want this team to develop young talent or buy/trade for it? There is a disagreeing of the minds, which is it. Fact: The reality of the cap going down, WILL limit how we use to, operate. How many can honestly say, there's no hope for his skating. Look at Hartnell, this season there really was no Hartnell down(except the time I brought up how great he was in evading two forchecks against him and being able to KEEP HIS BALANCE (!!AND!!) skate away with the puck!....only to fall down on his own right after! good grief Charlie Brown! But puttin' in the work helped him out. We are somewhat in new territory again in developing from within(even though technically we're dealing with our trades/picks comps.) So what's it gonna be? I say buy, not sell the youth. Buy into developing them for a few years, There should be optional/mandatory clinics on skill sets for players to do during the offseason and days off. That's where I miss Jagr. The owness was on getting/staying better. Dam he was THAT! important for our youth development. More important than a Weber, Parise(in a subtle subliminal sort of way). This is where a vantage-astute, acuity position, in the scheme of things come to play in core management. That is why you hold on, step back from the smoke and mirrors. Though it hurts...you keep Briere(important piece) You keep Rinaldo, Talbot, Gagne,if possible Fedetenko. And you keep our youth. You let Gus "tryout" and you cast your line out there and keep fishing for the big one, while developing yours. We are gonna live in a league where it's gonna be hard to buy talent, when your rolling a big payroll already. I can see why Bryz will be bought out this year...cap relief!... take me away. If our team played like a machine, we wouldn't be hurting so much for an all ticket Defenseman. And for pete sakes Couts get your ass to skate class and Put in the work if you want to stay(alot of good it does to stick ones neck out for someone and the bum just burps out another flavor of gabba gool) And I aint bustin' your balls...Capise'

I agree with the sentiment, screen name toughfighter83, though I have doubts if thats really toughfighter83 you "sound" different(like when a buddy goes into your dorm and types over your account when your in the bathroom and doesn't tell you).....anyway, there obviously are several issues going on this shortened season and everybody knows it. There's a difference when you can see things from afar and your not directly engaged in the loss of battle. The GM is right with his comment, "I like this team". Now not every player is an all star, and there are a lot of bad plays that are going on. This team needs to be mircomanaged on how to do set plays and counter plays and reverse counter plays. Drills, drills , drills , drills, drills , drills and furthermore drills. It has got to be inscribed, deeply very deeply in their skulls, fundamentals and advance fundamentals. Fedetenko said it best, Timmo brought it up in the past. You want to go back a few years....PRONGER even said it during the season. Every waking moment of practice should be dedicated to this. I mean you got to go out there and be a Machine, this is not the ALL STARR game. You got to Work! now turn to the left...Work, now turn to the right. Work your tail and keep that puck from their lane. Work! now turn to the right. Work, now turn to the left. Shantee..... All seriousness aside. Like many have said this has been a debbie downer year. We need a top D pairing eventually. But I kid you not, even if we had Weber, Jones and an all star Defender, unless systems are inscribed and I mean put a blind fold on and pass the puck and know where your linemate is at, type of instillment, those guys are going to look like the team against the Globe Trotters...paid actors. Don't be a paid actor. And the real issues are the cap hits as well, I like Bryz as a player and a person. Unfortunately he looked at the menu and said give me the Super Size Submarine sandwich with everything.....and he hasn't paid (show'd the goods, for that appetite). He should of asked for half a sandwich and then the next time in line say, I KNOW I can eat the supersized one. He wanted a big paycheck and wrote a check his performance hasn't paid, that's all. He lives, he learns. That's why I'm ok with the buyout, not happy as a person to do it to someone....but this is an Entertainment Industry, I dont agree with buying out Briere, he is a Playoff asset and believe me, teams need pieces like that in the Playoffs to help them through. Now as a player of his stature, I wouldn't necessarily like to be only thought of as a sole contributer in the playoffs like Claude Lemiuexe use to boast about a little. But he needs to get out of his whole, kinda like Hartnell did during his personal issues...,Man what a teammate like Jagr to have during those times, he has become.....Mr. International...sees things from a distance and can detail you a gameplan. I really miss that from our team. You just don't let that slip away when you have that voice. He sounds like fun times and growth, even Freakin' Hartnell took "Hart" and became a better sports man. Talbot too had a banner year, as well as G, and you know Jake was sitting by the fireplace eating it all up as well.

There is so much new technology in sports fitness and the classic good ol' hard work, that can come into play that can improve, Anybody! And I MEAN ANYBODY, Period! I can 100% GUARANTEE that if a piece of shyte skater sucking the hell out of sports, takes the time and effort for a whole summer x 2 and during the season to work on explosiveness, core strength, flexibilty, and all the modern techniques that are out there, they will improve by 70% or more of where they started at. Now! the question is...... do you wanna to do it?

I think Briere has better ROI than Bryz. Therefore if we buyout Bryz and get Bernier we would be in a better position in the playoffs. I would rather though also trade Briere to a contender for a D prospect or high pick(s), hoping to get him back the following year on a new contract, so he retires a Flyer with a very reasonble low cap hit (We could talk to the other team that part of the agreement for them to have a scoring playoff performer to help them win the "Cup" would be that Briere would get bought out by that team at the end of the year. so that he will be an UFA and that's how we get him back at a super discount rate; that might cost us prospect or picks for that agreement, but Briere is a proven Playoff performer). This way: (1) we lose both high salaries, (2) get to keep a Playoff performer were he also wants to stay.(3) have picks/prospects and cash to give to LA for Bernier, (3) Be under the cap. (4) have Cash On Hand to pay G and the rest of our troopers for there expireing contracts, and (5) keep our youth. If we end up tanked at the end of this season, that would net us a high pick in the draft. This is a plan a GM can craft and get out of the foxhole he put himself in, whether or not it was his fault or not. Remember, we could of started this year with Parise, Sutter and/or Webber had Holmgram gotten his men.

What changed? last year we were 1 or 2 in road wins and our home games were suffering. Same goalie....ahhh different vets that played on our team. With Mason we know have an occassional good outlet pass, to push out our offense.

There are alot of openings in this house that the fly's keep coming inside, we need to focus on closing these holes that were created...by being careless or by not giveing a flying puck where things are at. We would be whistleing another toon had we nabbed Webber and New Jerseys Capt. Homer swung and missed the fences, hit a grounder that went to the short stop that created a double play and we lost this inning. He tried for a grand slam and ended up with a ground ball double play....it happens, he has this summer to redeem himself for a bad play at bat. That's ALL FOLKS! Too ROO roo roo too too tooo......too ROO roo roo too too toooooo!

toot too roo... toot, too-roo toot-toot

I root for the Flyers, but if they loose it will make the draft a more pleasant experience. Like the man said there are nice going away presents to not feel bad you lost in The Price Is Right......C'mmonn Downn!

Mason reminds me of a little of the best parts of certain goalies, grant it. it's quite immature at the moment but looking into the oven I see Bob's reflexes, Hextall/Brodeur like puck control, and believe it or not one thing I liked about Leighton to a degree is that he looked big in net, but other than that part, nothing like Leighton. Now grant it, this is just to new to take out. One thing I wonder is, if he has sharpened up on, letting in of soft goals; maturity hopefully and calmness will shore that up.

I seen a good amount of games, some I would like to take back those wasted hours of watching to do something more productive, like taking out the trash. But in all these posts, the underlying answer is that the defensesive breakdowns (sucks) and the goalie one on ones (sucks), and positional plays (sucks G,D), clearing attempts (sucks), terrible line changeing (sucks), team blitzing on one opponent with the puck (sucks, Jersey's good at that usually) Team defense (sucks) 60 minute efforts (sucks). Professionalism on the ice (sucks), supporting puck carrying offense(meh) Stating who let the flys in the house and argueing that one person left the door open and the other person left the window open with no screen, doesn't matter anymore. Steve Mason looks like the Fly Swatter. Go Flyers.

I saw there was no posting on Mason so I threw one out there but never hit the post button on time, hope he plays next game.

Not much of a sample, but one thing that stood out very casually was how he went behind the net to stop that pass around the boards by Winny's D. Wanted to say,"That reminded me of Hextall!", but I felt more like, "Hey that looked like Brodeur" on that one play. Side note, scoring only one goal is a bad recipe for this team. It's ok to FAIL, But at LEAST FAIL TRYING, that's all we ask, at LEAST FAIL TRYING! Our Defense sucks, that's no exuse to stop our offense. Look how bad our defense played in the Pittsburgh series last year...but our offense kept playing. Carry your Weight Mutther Suckkers!

@B21 That shirt Cooks !

@Digityman It show'd in his goal tonight. I know he can be a great captain. I think it would of been wise to let the kids play before you have to make them grow up to soon.

I know when your at ice level you see the team a certain way, being far from ice level you can see what pieces are needed to win cups. Briere is a piece that can help you bring a cup to your team, he is just a piece and not the whole part. Asking a round peg to fit into a square peg hole will not work, unless you break the round peg or break the square hole. Danny is a key part of our team, he is a key Playoff part. It's not about making the playoffs only, it's about what you do in them when you are inside. Right now we have a lot of rookies going through growing pains( I call them rookies because it takes about 3 years to wean them off of AHL pullups; granted some toddlers learn to walk sooner than others) You need different pieces to win the cup. Im saying he is an important piece. We need other pieces. Talbot is also a piece. Rinaldo can def be a piece, G and V are piece as well as Feds, and Harts and Simmer can be important pieces, Read is a valuable piece. Timo, Grossmann and Mez are pieces as well. Not to snubb anyone else but L & B Schenn, Couts. I think G should relieve himself of his captaincy and give it to Fedetenko. His quiet wisdom is very valuable. You don't give it to talent you give it to experience and tenure.

.....The Rinaldo Show.....aww Good times! If you guys remember, we've been in the exact same situation before, with the conversation in the locker room being," we just have to turn on the switch, and we can come from behind." mentality that back then would have us on the edge of our seats and watch the boys will there way back into games. Back then we had talent and depth. We lost that this year in loosing veteran players. Jagr was a major influence on Hartnell, got his ass up to work out and be in the best shape of his hockey life. It gave G the green light to go out there and play. It helped Rinaldo in his game as well. Damn foolish thinking in going goo goo gaa gaa over the free agents. The offer sheet I can understand for D. but Jagr was a good thing going, not because of his productivity, but his value in the locker room and his ability to coach team mates to look inside and be better than what they think they are. I think he'll make a great coach someday. He was the wiseman for our young core. Right now there's no one in the locker room to turn on the switch. That game pissed me three hours away from my life to do more productive things. I could of watch'd Jerry Springer ' athon and come up with the same ending result....what a waste of time.