ruxpin

The difference was Kronwall left his feet and Rinaldo didn't.

Rinaldo didn't stride into the guy, he glided into him, and the victim's own momentum had as much to do with the hit as Rinaldo's. It was a classic great hit, and classic, "Oh, it's Rinaldo? TWO!" from the zebes.

Rinaldo left his feet. He lunged into his head. I have no problem with either call--under current rules. I kind of prefer the rules growing up...you didn't have to leave your junk at home.

@DaGreatGazoo

I think that's why this team might make a minor move..wait to see what happens with CBA..and then go hawg wild as usual, when the rules are clarified...and screw it up massively like last time.

Fixed it for you.

Eh, fair points, I guess. I just really don't want him on the Flyers. And he really only hits on occasion. The rest of the time he skates around thinking "look at me, world." Don't want him. I'd rather have Avery at this point.

Plus, he seemed pretty ticked when he left. I just don't see him being all Mr. Cheery Employee if he came back.

I never want to see Mike Richards in a Flyer uniform again. I finally got rid of him and actually like players on the team for the first time in several years. Why would I want to bring that stupid jerk back?

Don't have time to look. How many years does Timo have left on his contract? Is it NMC? If we're dumping this year, I move him for cap money and go younger. If Pronger is done plus Timo's money and maybe not re-signing Carle, you haven't touched our offense and can try to rebuild the defense.

Not beyond the realm of possibility, brelic. It's not like your suggesting Sestito for Iginla or something.

Yeah, have to agree I don't see this from Nashville's end. The Schenn thing is more plausible, I think. Not thrilled, but it works.

I'm okay with any of that at this point. Anything that attempts to shore up the defense is okay by me. I have a nagging feeling, though, that since it's the defense, we end up with a very minor deal that brings a Lilja-type defenseman back that leaves us all wondering, WTF?

Okay, I have a new question then. If the problems are not on the goalies for the most part, but the defense / team effort...

If the Flyers are able to square up their defensive play a bit, which goaltender do you go with? Do you hope Bryz turns into a near-elite goalie, or do you use the net to try and develop Bobrovsky?

IF the Flyers are able to square up their defensive play, I make a commitment to the kazillion dollar goalie and try to get him to work through whatever the problem is. Part of that is that I don't trust Bob as the starter, but mainly it's because I want the ROI from the kazillion dollar goalie. I like Lavy and have been a lot more patient with him than with recent Flyer head coaches, but I don't think he has helped with goalies with the way he has used them. Bryz, in particular, but even going back the last couple years. At times, his hand was forced, but at other times I think he's helped to create his own problems.

On the other hand, I'm out of tokens in Pick'em and my fantasy team sucks, so what the hell do I know?

They'll make the playoffs, but 6-8 seed should probably be expected. I think I personally was expecting slow start with improvement as the season went along rather than what we've seen, but I think many were with me before the season started in expecting 6-8 seed.

I really do think the beginning of the season was a bit of a mirage. On the other hand, they have a pretty good record considering lousy defense, a ton of injuries, and average goaltending at best. Improvement in any of those areas--doesn't really have to be all of them--and they are fine for the regular season. Come playoffs, it's betting money that they are one and done.

It's really one thing I noticed watching the Sabres more often - people can justifiably question Ruff, but more often than not I see a squad that's at least playing as a five-man unit on the ice.

The Flyers consistently have more talent than most teams, but they aren't the best at being a "team."

Agreed. Terrific points in this thread, rad.

@radoran

You don't run-and-gun teams out of the playoffs. You get run out more often than not.

IMO, if they go into the playoffs running the "system" they are now, they will not get past the first round

Send this to the Flyers. This is my problem both last year and this with Lavy's style of play. They do well early in the season and shoot out to the front of the pack and lead or are near the top in scoring (they were last year, too, if you remember). This is all done while other teams are gelling their defense and coordinating how they're going to play when the games get big. The Flyers? Just run and gun. So later in the year when the other teams' defenses have come together and defense becomes what wins games, the Flyers can no longer score at the rate they were and they haven't spent any real effort on figuring out their defense so you see the record start to fall and we have this same discussion year in year out.

I don't want to go back to the "sit back" mentality we had under Stevens. I have to admit that the "run and gun" is in many ways more entertaining to watch. But it doesn't win when it counts...as you accurately point out. I wouldn't mind a "puck-hunting" mentality that derives from sound defense. That WILL get you offense while protecting your back end. It will also give the goalie a CHANCE to steal a game once in awhile.

it is definitely not entirely on the goalies. however, they are not rising up to the occasion to steal any games. would be nice if they could get a few in there given their combined salaries and supposed talent level.

I don't disagree. On the other hand, I don't know that we're giving them the opportunity to "steal" any games. It would be nice if they cut down on the goofy goals, but other goalies give up goofy goals on occasion (whatsisname last night in Detroit, for example) and their team rallies around them and overcomes it rather than using it as an excuse to lose. But with the incessant bumbleF**king in the defensive end, bad decisions with the puck, bad decisions without the puck, lousy coverage, forwards leaving too quickly, etc., you can have "steals" like Bob did early against the Rangers the other night and it doesn't matter. There's really only so much a goalie should be expected to steal. With this defense, it would amount to more than just stealing. It would be felony grand theft.

well, he's gotten enough starts to prove himself and he has done that... he's proven himself as a very young goaltender who has talent and promise, but is def not a starter in this league right now. for all of bryz faults, he's proven that he can be a proven starter in this league. let's just hope he can get back to that level.

Agreed.

@radoran

Not sure about the sqare peg/round hole thing. I get what you're saying, though, and it's certainly possible.

I just don't think they have the defense. They have their best defenseman on the shelf. They have another really good defenseman who is having a pretty good season but who is on the backside of his career. After that? I cannot say I am impressed. Mezz, Carle, and Coburn are all simply okay but inconsistent. With Pronger being out, they're all probably a notch above where they should be in terms of responsibility and ice time. Then you have a rotation of rookies and Lilja. Again, the rookies are going to show signs of being good but also be inconsistent. The problem is that they are all consistently inconsistent at different times, so you have the incessant breakdowns, lapses of coverage, and flat out bone-headed decisions we're seeing.

In the meantime, you have forwards simply leaving the zone or moving for the breakout entirely too quickly. I'm going to chalk that part up to Lavy's system and an example of your square peg/round hole thing. Since they have inexperienced or only average d-men out there, they need the forwards' help. The "system" is built for run and gun, so they're not giving that help.

As you said, any goalie is going to suffer on this team. In the Ranger game, Bob made absurd stops early, but since you cannot do that all game, he left in a couple and right away "eh Bob doesn't make the big save." Is there any rule about playing with 4 skaters and two goalies? Because short of that, until they fix the defense, neither goalie is going to look all that good.

@Vanflyer

I just think it's his ceiling.

FYI...I picked the Flyers with all my remaining tokens in Pick'em. So the Flyers are pretty much screwed tonight.

Reese took the Flyers within two wins of the Stanley Cup with Brian "Uh oh" Boucher and Michael "Leaky" ******* Leighton. He's not the problem. Move along.

Berube has shown success coaching the PP/PK over his tenure, and Lavy seems to lean on Berube significantly. I know he wasn't a stud player, but nor was Bylsma. Maybe Berube has more to offer than he is given credit here (a damn near certainty...sheesh).

Lavy is a proven winner, and the offense shows up. He is also a constructive criticism coach (remember 24/7, and the contrast between he and Torts). He manages games well aside from goalies, as evidenced by his knack for timely timeouts, overall solid roster decisions/scratches, and line combinations/adjustments/lack of adjustments in the name of continuity.

I am very under-impressed with McCarthy. Can the Flyers promote Hatcher or involve Pronger (not at games due to light and noise) here?

What about Lappy to coach the PK? Maybe a Hatcher or Desjardins on the defense.

Or, maybe Shelly could (literally) rip the door off of the locker room, throw it in the center of the room (next to the logo, not on it of course), and yell at the guys who actually get to play. Shelly presumably works hard, but doesn't get to play - and these other gifted guys aren't appreciating what chances they have.

At the very least, it produced a humourous scene in my head where Shelly yells "Shelly Smassshhhh".

If Shelley is going to do anything with the locker room door, I'm hoping it's walking out through it never to return.

Yes it was to you, and thanks for the response. As there aren't exactly a lot of elite goalies magically available, I wonder who the Flyers could possibly bring in? I sincerely think Bob will better than Bryz (at the highest point in his career, and I know there were good moments). Bob has his head on straight, works hard, and constantly improves. No one will mistake his potential for Carey Price, but even Price took a few years before he got to 'that' level.

I can't say with any degree of certainty that Bob will be a starter, bust/flash in the pan, the best Russian goalie ever, or any point in between. It depends too much on coaching, team style, and management by the head and goalie coaches. I am probably too optimistic, but at least there is a goalie with potential in O&B for once in a long time. I will admit I have hope for Bob, justified (imo it is) or not.

Well, keep the faith because Bob is probably the best option we have right now. Although I do think (hope?) that Bryz will be better next year.

In any case, calling Bob a career backup and answering the question "who else do we bring in" are entirely two different exercises. Bryz and Bob are it, and I don't see how any other options are possible. I suppose they could Mogilny Bryz, but that would be a horrible mistake. Short of that, I don't think you can spend anymore salary on that position.

Best guess is you shore up the defense and hope it's enough to compensate for only average, inconsistent, goaltending.

I cannot believe Flyer fans STILL have to talk about this. Years and years of the front office not trying, then they go out and sign a "top flight" goalie only to find out they've bought a grounded SST. And here we are...

Oh, another thought... I don't know how this works in the 'real' world but why can't pronger hang around the team more? Go to home games and watch, then mentor individual players in between players, or even rip the team a new one if need be or encourage them when they are doing it right?

In some cases, that might work, but it's always better for your leader to actually be on the ice. But in this particular case, it's my understanding that Pronger really isn't up to even doing that. The guy is apparently having a really bad time of it.

Last year was a case of mis-management by Lavy with the crazy rotation of Bob/Boosh. Hasn't been that great this year either. That's by far Lavy's biggest weakness as a coach IMO.

Agreed.

So you want to give up the prospect of developing Bob why? What route do you suggest instead?

Hi Doom,

Hard to tell on here sometimes. Was that to me?

Don't give up developing Bob, but he's a career backup. We need to work on getting a starter if Bryz isn't going to be it, because Bob won't be.

If you're in a fantasy league that rewards penalty minutes as well as scoring, Hartnell is gold.

Bob is a backup = Nitty.

That is all.