JackStraw Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 A recent exchange I had on the subject of Bob vs Bernier, and the expectations for both, prompted me to do a quick little research project. As we know, Bob was undrafted while Bernier was a 1st round pick. Well, it seems that the NHL maybe doesn't do quite as thorough a job scouting European goalies as they do Canadians. Consider where the following were drafted:Tukka Rask: 1st round (had to get one high pick in there somewhere)Henrik Lundqvist: 7th roundJaro Halak: 9th roundJonas Hiller: undraftedNiklas Backstrom: undraftedEvgeni Nabakov: 9th roundAntti Niemi: undraftedMikka Kiprusoff: 5th round"Universe": 2nd round (somebody must have screwed up there!)And of course, the poster child for un-hyped Euro goalies, Dominik Hasek, who was drafted in the 10th round (I didn't even know they had 10 rounds).Now, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw something similar for Canadian goalies because I think it's very hard to predict how successful a young goalie will be in the NHL. Probably tougher than other positions. But it does seem that more Canadian goalies get drafted high up (Price, Fleury) than European goalies.Anyway, discuss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinorama Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (I didn't even know they had 10 rounds)me either 'till I just read this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyer1 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Just a thought on drafting goalies. Goal scorers fill the seats goalies not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Just a thought on drafting goalies. Goal scorers fill the seats goalies not so much.True, but good goalies really help win Cups. And that really fills the seats. I came across this article and one thing struck me:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/european-goalies-becoming-the-rule-not-the-exception/article1575082/"Mats Hallin, the Blackhawks’ European scout who helped the team land Niemi, said what makes his job easier than those scouting Canadians is that he is often watching older goaltenders who have rounded out their games"That suggests to me that NHL scouts don't pay much attention to younger European goalies, maybe they feel that with the differences b/w the NHL game and the international game they can't get a good evaluation for the younger Europeans. Which might explain, at least in part, why some of these good Euro goalies were undrafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think we're only now getting to the point where a lot of teams are effectively scouting Europe and there's the natural predilection for Canadiens developed by the... Canadians that dominate the sport.Europeans also have had more of a "will he actually come over" aspect to them, making them slightly more of a risk.Likewise, the adjustment coming from style of play and ice surface.On another note, they don't have a 10th round anymore. But they used to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I like the word "predilection". It sounds simultaneously educated and unseemly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terp Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I like the word "predilection". It sounds simultaneously educated and unseemly.Rule: "predilection" always has a negative connotation, as in: "A certain poster has a predilection for a certain, unnamed type of livestock." You never hear anybody say"..oh, yeah, I have a real predilection for that kind of beer". In fact, no one wants to own up to any "predilections"; it's unseemly.This is a good observation @radoran. Non North American goaltenders are seldom high picks. They speak a different language, are from a different culture, play on a different surface and are typically trained to play a different style. Add that onto the slow, uncertain development path of goaltenders in general and you get even talented players sliding down in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 "A certain poster has a predilection for a certain, unnamed type of livestock."That's EXACTLY what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 A recent exchange I had on the subject of Bob vs Bernier, and the expectations for both, prompted me to do a quick little research project. As we know, Bob was undrafted while Bernier was a 1st round pick. Well, it seems that the NHL maybe doesn't do quite as thorough a job scouting European goalies as they do Canadians. Consider where the following were drafted:Tukka Rask: 1st round (had to get one high pick in there somewhere)Henrik Lundqvist: 7th roundJaro Halak: 9th roundJonas Hiller: undraftedNiklas Backstrom: undraftedEvgeni Nabakov: 9th roundAntti Niemi: undraftedMikka Kiprusoff: 5th round"Universe": 2nd round (somebody must have screwed up there!)And of course, the poster child for un-hyped Euro goalies, Dominik Hasek, who was drafted in the 10th round (I didn't even know they had 10 rounds).Now, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw something similar for Canadian goalies because I think it's very hard to predict how successful a young goalie will be in the NHL. Probably tougher than other positions. But it does seem that more Canadian goalies get drafted high up (Price, Fleury) than European goalies.Anyway, discuss... I think there are several Canadian goalies (or US for that matter) who went later in the draft. Brian Elliot who leads all goalies stat-wise, was picked in the 9th round. So was Thomas. Quick was a 3rd rounder. Mike Smith was a 5th rounder. So was Miller. Emery a 4th. Theres a few others. Oh, and Ilya Bryzgalov is actually ahead of 2 other goalies who have played in the entire NHL in save percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Oh, and Ilya Bryzgalov is actually ahead of 2 other goalies who have played in the entire NHL in save percentage.Are they crippled? Blind? Crippled and blind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 @JackStrawOne of them used to be a certain Black knight. The other one is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 The other one is deadMaybe we could trade Bryz for that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 He wouldn't stink as bad as bryz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 He wouldn't stink as bad as bryzAnd if rigor mortis has set in, he should be able to keep the old 5-hole closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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