Matthews vs. Marner

[Holymakinaw]

Who's better?  

 

Traditionally, everyone says Matthews.  He scores a million goals, had a 106 point season, won a few Rockets, a Hart and a Ted Lindsay.  

 

But.....

 

Marner has gotten 94+ points, or PACED for 94+ points for four years now, and looks to be doing it again for a 5th year in a row.   Marner also owns the all-time Leaf record for consecutive games with at least a point, with 19(and counting).  Matthews has not done either of these things.  Marner is also the best passer/playmaker on the Leafs, by far.  Matthews is really just a pure scorer.  And without Marner feeding him this year, his goals are down.   Marner is also the best two-way forward on the team, and should get a lot of Selke votes this season.

 

Matthews probably does edge out Marner overall, but does anyone else think it's WAY closer than many say?  I think there are a lot of good arguments for Mitch being our best player.

 

If you disagree, you are a horrible person. 

 

 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

This actually is an interesting debate.....even for non-Leaves® fans.

TBH, I've always like Mitch Marner more than Auston Matthews because I thought Marner to be the better overall, more rounded player.
Now...while that may  have been true at first, I need to give Matthews his due: He has truly worked on his overall game to become something of a do-everything player himself.

I've leveled criticism at him that he was one dimensional as an offensive player...just shoots and scores, that's it....but that is not true any longer....he also helps set up plays, and makes plays for others.
I've said Matthews is all about JUST offense....yet looking at him now, he can be seen backchecking and hauling arse to get back when the play goes the other way.
I've even thought Matthews may be a bit shy with the body contact, but lo and behold, he can take the body with some of the very best in the league these days.

Mitch Marner, meanwhile, has always had the better balance of scoring, playmaking, and defensive awareness, which is why I've always liked him better.
Matthews got more of the press, but I always thought Marner made the team "GO" if you will.

But that was then, this is now.
Both players are remarkably close in pure numbers, with Matthews of course, still being more the goal scorer, but by no means limited to just that, and Marner continuing to be the all around guy he always was, but now, at an even higher level.

Truth is, these two together are like peanut butter and jelly....mac n cheese..... burgers and fries......and Paul with Bunyans 
They just go so well together, that it really is hard to pick just one guy to be better than the other.

But, since the question was asked, I will still go with Marner because he has just been the model of consistency, advancement, and improvement almost the entire time he has been in the NHL.
Matthews has taken huge strides to be a more complete player (and he is now!), so not leveling anything bad towards him.

But if I had to have just one of them, starting out a new franchise, Marner is still it for me, and I think he is the type of player, like a Patrice Bergeron or Ron Francis, that will continue to play at an elite level even after his prime years have passed, whereas I think a player like Auston Matthews may peak very high, then start to drop off and won't be the big scoring threat in his mid 30's for instance, like he was in his 20's....UNLESS, of course, he can re-invent himself along the way.

[Holymakinaw]

11 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

But if I had to have just one of them, starting out a new franchise, Marner is still it for me, and I think he is the type of player, like a Patrice Bergeron or Ron Francis, that will continue to play at an elite level even after his prime years have passed, whereas I think a player like Auston Matthews may peak very high, then start to drop off and won't be the big scoring threat in his mid 30's for instance, like he was in his 20's....UNLESS, of course, he can re-invent himself along the way.

 

I agree.  Of the two, I bet the Leaves() hold on to Marner the longest, and he'll end up being the one who owns all the big Leaf records, except maybe goals, which Matthews will take.  Ron Francis is a good comparable, based on skill, and impact.  Marner is pure skill.  Now the Leafs just need a Tkachuk on the team, to offset that and bring some grit and hart/soul to the team.  Pure skill just ain't enough, as they have proven in their youth.  Luckily, they are still very young and have time.  

 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Holymakinaw

[Holymakinaw]

21 game streak for little Mitch.  Pacing for 33 goals and 97 points AGAIN.  Dang, son.  

 

Matthews is still doing well, pacing for 41 goals and 90 points.  But without little Mitch, he's a bit more human, ain't he?

 

 

[flyercanuck]

On 12/9/2022 at 7:03 AM, Holymakinaw said:

21 game streak for little Mitch.  Pacing for 33 goals and 97 points AGAIN.  Dang, son.  

 

Matthews is still doing well, pacing for 41 goals and 90 points.  But without little Mitch, he's a bit more human, ain't he?

 

 

 

I think they rely on each other pretty good. Without Marners sweet passes, Matthews doesn't score as much. But without Matthews finish, Marner gets nowhere near as many apples. 

[Holymakinaw]

12 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I think they rely on each other pretty good. Without Marners sweet passes, Matthews doesn't score as much. But without Matthews finish, Marner gets nowhere near as many apples. 

 

They're not playing together at all this year, and Marner is exactly on his usual pace(he's actually a tad above it, pacing for 99 points) and Matthews is slightly down, for his goal pace.

[Holymakinaw]

Another 2 point evening for little Mitch(and 1 point for Matthews).  Rolling along nicely.

 

It always helps to play the bottom-feeder teams.   

[Holymakinaw]

Last year, Matthews was clearly the better player.  This year, it's Marner.

 

Now if only either of them could do this in the playoffs.  

 

 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

24 minutes ago, Holymakinaw said:

Last year, Matthews was clearly the better player.  This year, it's Marner.

 

Now if only either of them could do this in the playoffs.  

 

 

 

You know, using a combination of fuzzy memory and hard numbers, both players have actually done pretty well production-wise in the post season.
Especially Matthews on a PPG basis.

I believe the rub for Toronto in the playoffs the last, oh, I dunno... 6 or 7 seasons...has been the style of game they DON'T play (not tough enough on the opposition maybe?) and the goaltending.
Can't think of specifics right off, but their playoff series have usually ended because of some blown coverage or the goalies' inability to come up with "that one save" that makes all the difference, even if the goalie has been good otherwise.

TOR looks poised to make the post season once again, and once again, both Marner and Matthews should have good production numbers. So they should do what is pictured well enough.
But how will the team fare in the area of goal prevention and how will they handle their shift in, shift out business on the ice in general facing down a Lightning, Bruins, or Carolina squad?
Those, my friend, are the real questions.

[Mad Dog]

I agree with FC.  They are both terrific, superstar players in their own rights.  It's equal to comparing Draisaitl and McDavid. Each one has his own greatness.

[Buffalo Rick]

These two guys are the only reason Toronto is on the map.  

[Holymakinaw]

5 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

These two guys are the only reason Toronto is on the map.  

 

Nah.  Nylander, Tavares, Rielly too.

[Holymakinaw]

36 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

You know, using a combination of fuzzy memory and hard numbers, both players have actually done pretty well production-wise in the post season.
Especially Matthews on a PPG basis.

I believe the rub for Toronto in the playoffs the last, oh, I dunno... 6 or 7 seasons...has been the style of game they DON'T play (not tough enough on the opposition maybe?) and the goaltending.
Can't think of specifics right off, but their playoff series have usually ended because of some blown coverage or the goalies' inability to come up with "that one save" that makes all the difference, even if the goalie has been good otherwise.

TOR looks poised to make the post season once again, and once again, both Marner and Matthews should have good production numbers. So they should do what is pictured well enough.
But how will the team fare in the area of goal prevention and how will they handle their shift in, shift out business on the ice in general facing down a Lightning, Bruins, or Carolina squad?
Those, my friend, are the real questions.

 

Yup.  It's always SOMETHING.

 

The Leafs are still too soft, in their core.  And who knows if these current Goalies can do it?  

 

I hope so.  But I won't bet money on it. 

[Brewin Flames]

Meh....If i had to pick one to start, I'm taking Marner.

 

 

[Buffalo Rick]

16 minutes ago, Holymakinaw said:

 

Nah.  Nylander, Tavares, Rielly too.

OK, Tavares yes and Nylander maybe. I would not trade my young Sabres lineup for any.  Toronto had best do something this year in the playoffs. Maybe the Sabres will play them?

[Buffalo Rick]

16 minutes ago, Holymakinaw said:

 

Yup.  It's always SOMETHING.

 

The Leafs are still too soft, in their core.  And who knows if these current Goalies can do it?  

 

I hope so.  But I won't bet money on it. 

Well a hard fought win vs a pretty good Rangers team.  

[Holymakinaw]

I predict that the next 3 or so weeks, Marner will REALLY pull ahead, points-wise.  Just watch.