Gostisbehere, Stolarz Shine for Team USA

[Podein25]

I read a few other reports that weren't as flattering though too.

I'd be interested in seeing those. I'm sure one of the things they say is that he's not flashy, not that big, not that fast etc. To which I generally say "meh" - Nikita Filatov is flashy, but do I want him on my team? Nyet

[Polaris922]

I'd be interested in seeing those. I'm sure one of the things they say is that he's not flashy, not that big, not that fast etc. To which I generally say "meh" - Nikita Filatov is flashy, but do I want him on my team? Nyet

Here is one where they predict some third line duties... with MAYBE some top six time... A zero possibility for success though?? I dunno how they did that but I think maybe they just forgot to rate it?

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/scott_laughton/

And this one asks some pertinent questions about the selection...

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2012/6/25/3116102/scott-laughton-nhl-draft-2012-philadelphia-flyers

I can't say these are exactly what I read at the time of the draft. I am sure they aren't as so much time has passed. BUt it was articles like these that left me thinking Holmgren could have done much better than he did. If I were a Flyers fan, I would be disappointed. Since I'm a Pens fan.. I'm very happy for you

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 You are wrong...you will grow to hate Scotty, it was a smart, smart pick which you will loathe over time. I'd put some serious cash on it....he will be an excellent player at the NHL level....

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922 You are wrong...you will grow to hate Scotty, it was a smart, smart pick which you will loathe over time. I'd put some serious cash on it....he will be an excellent player at the NHL level....

Will Laughton be a tougher commodity to replace than Maatta? Who would be more important to your organization? That's my angle. Laughton may become a great third line center. Maybe even second. But Maatta looks to have potential for top four defense. Something your team needs, and tougher to find in my eyes than a third line center.

Can't wait to find out!

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 I actually think he's better than a 3rd line center...I know there is a ton of depth at the center positon on the Flyers, but these things have a way of working themselves out...injury, trades, who knows...it's a 2 or 3 years away problem.

I really like Matta, he impressed me more everytime I saw him, so I know what you are getting at. The Flyers obviously don't draft by position, it's best player....and they thought Scott was the best, and must have felt very strongly about it....I trust our scouts....they are wicked good.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922 I actually think he's better than a 3rd line center...I know there is a ton of depth at the center positon on the Flyers, but these things have a way of working themselves out...injury, trades, who knows...it's a 2 or 3 years away problem.

I really like Matta, he impressed me more everytime I saw him, so I know what you are getting at. The Flyers obviously don't draft by position, it's best player....and they thought Scott was the best, and must have felt very strongly about it....I trust our scouts....they are wicked good.

Apparently from reading all the posts here and looking down the track record they're not wicked good at sorting out defensive prospects. . I'm glad you guys are happy with Laughton. That's what's important.

[Podein25]

Here is one where they predict some third line duties... with MAYBE some top six time... A zero possibility for success though?? I dunno how they did that but I think maybe they just forgot to rate it?

http://www.hockeysfu...scott_laughton/

And this one asks some pertinent questions about the selection...

http://www.broadstre...adelphia-flyers

I can't say these are exactly what I read at the time of the draft. I am sure they aren't as so much time has passed. BUt it was articles like these that left me thinking Holmgren could have done much better than he did. If I were a Flyers fan, I would be disappointed. Since I'm a Pens fan.. I'm very happy for you

This is an excellent discussion and I like your style, even if you are a Pens fan. So I'll let you decide whether you think it is nitpicky of me to point out that whereas I cited a number of scouting reports, from Central Scouting, to ISS to Red Line, all of whom had Laughton firmly in the 1st round, you have cited blogs.

So that means I can add this, fwiw - I'm in a 22 GM dynasty league that goes back almost 20 years. We can draft players at any age. Several of the GMs are sportswriters who follow Jr leagues for a living. One has worked for ISS. Another has a brother who scouts the OHL for an NHL team. One is friends with Craig Heisinger, VP/GM of the Winnipeg Jets. Anyway, you get the drift - smart, knowledgeable, informed hockey people. Well, in our league Laughton was drafted 2 years ago. I'll put that up against your blogs anyday.

Anyway, no dissresepct meant. We can disagree. But I'd join @jammer2 in putting money down that Laughton plays a full season in the NHL before Maatta even plays a single game in a Pens uni.

[Polaris922]

This is an excellent discussion and I like your style, even if you are a Pens fan. So I'll let you decide whether you think it is nitpicky of me to point out that whereas I cited a number of scouting reports, from Central Scouting, to ISS to Red Line, all of whom had Laughton firmly in the 1st round, you have cited blogs.

So that means I can add this, fwiw - I'm in a 22 GM dynasty league that goes back almost 20 years. We can draft players at any age. Several of the GMs are sportswriters who follow Jr leagues for a living. One has worked for ISS. Another has a brother who scouts the OHL for an NHL team. One is friends with Craig Heisinger, VP/GM of the Winnipeg Jets. Anyway, you get the drift - smart, knowledgeable, informed hockey people. Well, in our league Laughton was drafted 2 years ago. I'll put that up against your blogs anyday.

Anyway, no dissresepct meant. We can disagree. But I'd join @jammer2 in putting money down that Laughton plays a full season in the NHL before Maatta even plays a single game in a Pens uni.

It's not the blogs I'm basing my opinion on. ALL of the prospect rankings had Maatta firmly ahead of Laughton. Am I wrong there?

[Podein25]

It's not the blogs I'm basing my opinion on.

Not to be a d i c k, but you just said that you based your impressions of Laughton on "reports" and when I asked you to cite them you cited those two blogs. Am I missing something?

ALL of the prospect rankings had Maatta firmly ahead of Laughton. Am I wrong there?

Yes, you are.

[jammer2]

@Podein25 Let me know if a spot ever comes up in that league...I'd be VERY interested!

[Podein25]

@jammer2

I will buddy. It has guys from Ontario as well as Nova Scotia in it. It's not a big money league or anything, just bragging rights.

We like to keep an even number of GMs, so if a guy leaves, we definitely seek to replace. With all of us getting older, it does happen that there is a GM every year who is thinking of droppign out. Usually they get talked back into it

Draft is in two weeks. I have the 7th and 19th pick in round 1. Research is underway.....

[jammer2]

@Podein25 If I do get in, just don't count on my scouting reports to be all that accurate

[Podein25]

@jammer2

LOL. The funny part about this debate with @Polaris922 is that I own Maatta! I took him last year based on scouting reports from a guy who works on London Knights radio broadcasts. I like him a lot, but I still think Homer made the right call. If he had taken Maatta I would have been fine with it. But I like the Candadian kid with character to help us win a Cup again.

[jammer2]

@Podein25 I would go with the Canadian also. Hmmm, gritty tenacious Canadian kid who hits like a truck, sticks up for teammates, drops the gloves and has a ton of offensive upside (and already skilled in the defensive aspects of the game) OR Finnish d-man who is steady but unspectacular...who do you think Homer goes for there? I take the Canadian every time. Plus, Matta is "what you see is what you get" ....largely a finished product, who knows how good or great Laughton will be, he has not reached his ceiling....not even close.

BTW, is Bo Horvat of the London Knights taken in your league right now....if he is not...go get him...IMMEDIATELY....I was SUPER impressed with this kids skill set...he is WICKED!!! Have not got a glimpse of Chan Ho-Park of the Spits yet, but he is supposed to be a legit star, only 16 right now though...I highly recommend those two if available.

[Polaris922]

Not to be a d i c k, but you just said that you based your impressions of Laughton on "reports" and when I asked you to cite them you cited those two blogs. Am I missing something?

Yes, you are.

I said "I read a few other reports that weren't as flattering though too". And in my examples I stated that those were examples of what I had read, and I am sure they weren't the same reports by this time. I didn't say that was ALL my opinion was based upon. I also was in deep discussion with everyone at the time of the draft about how he was rated. I base my opinion of why Laughton before Maata was a mistake on several factors. As mentioned, your team doesn't need another center in development, you need defense. Also the blogs that I've read, other than the one you posted, don't paint him as anything better than a solid #3 center. Those are valuable, obviously, but not with a first round pick when you have so much depth there in youth already. My initial feeling, as with most of you I am sure, was why draft a number 28 ranked prospect when a number 8 prospect is available?

Now in line with that, you said I am incorrect in stating Maata was ahead of Laughton in all of the prospect rankings. I've seen...

NHL Draft Rankings, North American Skaters

Maata #8, Laughton #28.

TSN Draft Rankings

Maata #10, Laughton #28

NHL Draft Ranking, Nicholas Goss

Maata #13, Laughton #39

Hockey Writers Rankings

Maata #13, Laughton #23

What other north american rankings should I be looking at? I looked at a bunch at the time of the draft while scratching my head at this pick. What did I miss?

[Polaris922]

@Podein25 I would go with the Canadian also. Hmmm, gritty tenacious Canadian kid who hits like a truck, sticks up for teammates, drops the gloves and has a ton of offensive upside (and already skilled in the defensive aspects of the game) OR Finnish d-man who is steady but unspectacular...who do you think Homer goes for there? I take the Canadian every time. Plus, Matta is "what you see is what you get" ....largely a finished product, who knows how good or great Laughton will be, he has not reached his ceiling....not even close.

BTW, is Bo Horvat of the London Knights taken in your league right now....if he is not...go get him...IMMEDIATELY....I was SUPER impressed with this kids skill set...he is WICKED!!! Have not got a glimpse of Chan Ho-Park of the Spits yet, but he is supposed to be a legit star, only 16 right now though...I highly recommend those two if available.

I don't know how you can say a kid 3 or 4 years from the NHL is largely a finished product. These two are at about the same point in their development and age. And defensemen tend to take longer to develop.

[Podein25]

Bo Horvat

Gone.

[Podein25]

@Polaris922

Woodlief had Laughton ranked higher, so not all. In fact, Woodlief had him as the 8th best forward, right behind Faksa and ahead of Girgensons. But yeah most rankings had Maatta ahead, so you got me there. Maatta is gonna be a good pro I'm sure.

But to be clear, my objection to your comments on Laughton had to do with your statements that he was a sure 2nd rounder (and even would have been available at pick #50) and that he projected as a 3rd line checker. I'm simply saying that is not the book on him from scouts, even those who ranked him 28th.

Maybe Homer should have taken a highly-ranked D-man who was ranked higher than Laughton in most minds, but you're acting as if Homer went off the board for a piece of chopped-liver. And that's just not the case. Both Laughton and Maatta went roughly where they were expected to go, Maatta a little bit lower, Laughton a tiny bit higher. Throw in intangibles of the kind Laughton has, and it's even IMO.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

Woodlief had Laughton ranked higher, so not all. In fact, Woodlief had him as the 8th best forward, right behind Faksa and ahead of Girgensons. But yeah most rankings had Maatta ahead, so you got me there. Maatta is gonna be a good pro I'm sure.

But to be clear, my objection to your comments on Laughton had to do with your statements that he was a sure 2nd rounder (and even would have been available at pick #50) and that he projected as a 3rd line checker. I'm simply saying that is not the book on him from scouts, even those who ranked him 28th.

Maybe Homer should have taken a highly-ranked D-man who was ranked higher than Laughton in most minds, but you're acting as if Homer went off the board for a piece of chopped-liver. And that's just not the case. Both Laughton and Maatta went roughly where they were expected to go, Maatta a little bit lower, Laughton a tiny bit higher. Throw in intangibles of the kind Laughton has, and it's even IMO.

I think you'd have had to trade up second round to get him, no doubt, but that he just wasn't the best player available at the time of the pick. The jury will remain out however, for a few years in thinking. We can taunt each other over it then

Edited September 9, 2012 by Polaris922

[Podein25]

@Polaris922

There's no way Laughton was going into the 2nd round. But fair enough. Let the taunting commence!

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 It's just the safe and confident way he plays the game, there is nothing really to add to it...his positioning is already above average, he will not be a physical d-man...he already makes a safe first pass...maybe his shot needs a bit of work, but other than that, what you see is what you get...that's why he fell a bit from his top 12 position before the draft..not much upside...almost a finished product.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

There's no way Laughton was going into the 2nd round. But fair enough. Let the taunting commence!

Reviewing the entire draft, I think you're right, he wouldn't have made it into the next round. IF he did, you'd have to be in the top couple of picks and that might have cost you more than it was worth. I still would have taken Maata before him if I were Holmgren, but you're right Laughton wouldn't have been there come your next pick. (See? I can meet ya half way LOL )

@jammer2

I think all facets of his game will improve. That's the norm with defensemen projected to make it to the NHL. They have everything pretty good already, which is how they got noticed in the first place, it's the few years seasoning in the minors that gets them to solidify their place. Their shots improve, their skating improves, their speed, strength and endurance improve. I think I get that you're trying to say he will be reliable and steady, but not excel at anything in particular. guess we'll see what the next few years brings him as well.

[Vanflyer]

and I, for one, never thought for a second that he'd be an NHLer, so I'm not sure anyone really thought he had a high ceiling.

I watched him (Marshall) play in the Memorial cup in Van. He was a stud on the blue line for the Main Maniacs (love that team name!~). His foot speed wasn't great, but his positioning and hitting were. His outlet passes were adequate to good. I am suspecting that something happened behind the scenes with the Phantoms (maroon-esque). He did get 10 games last year at the NHL level.

[Podein25]

@Vanflyer

Huh. Maybe you're right. But I honestly didn't think any part of his game was NHL caliber. To say he had slow foot speed is to say he could barely skate. He could not turn. And I never saw him making any great outlet passes either. He was gritty and took penalties was about all I could ever notice. I know he was captain of the Manacs, so I guess he had some leadership qualities at that level, but....

[jammer2]

@Podein25 Agreed pods...just no dexterity in Marshall's stride or movement...looks like a robot...not fluid, very choppy skater...and just to damn slow. You can be as tough and gritty as you want, but the bottom line in this league, you *have* to be able to get from point A to point B in decent time (unless you have a Chris Pronger type reach and positioning...which he does not have). What you see is what you get....a dud. Game over...