Organization is split on Bryzgalov

[brelic]

From Tim P on Hockeybuzz this morning

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Tim-Panaccio/On-Compete-Mason-Bryz-Et-Al/2/50635#.UWQuiKIqZ8E

I found the bit about Bryzgalov interesting and troubling.

Sounds to me like there needs to be a whole lot of convincing Snider to amnesty Bryz. I would bet it doesn't happen this year. There really is no way to get a better goaltender without affecting the roster, and why would you do that unless you absolutely have to? WIth a healthy blueline and forwards who've gained another year of experience, the team as a whole should be better on defense next season.

Going with Bryz as the starter and Mason as the guy pushing to be #1 next season, it's virtually risk-free. If neither works out, you can buy out Bryz and let Mason go somewhere else.

And then we'll be right back where we are just about every 2 years.

Speaking of Thun, he represents newly-acquired goalie Steve Mason. I understand the need for a backup but I think the Flyers should have tried to find someone who is not refurbishing his game. The last thing you need in Philly is a goalie trying to get h is act together and that is what Mason faces here.

There is still the very real possibility that the Flyers amnesty Ilya Bryzgalov this summer and go after another guy to be their No. 1 - like Jonathan Bernier. There remains a divide within the Flyers themselves, as an organization, whether Bryz is worth the money and cap hit.

Bryz has been worn into the ice because the Flyers could not spell him with a backup they trusted. But here's the thing. Given the BIG bucks he is making, it's very easy to make a case that he has been GOOD but not GREAT for that kind of money and you can get GOOD for a lot less.

The owner, Ed Snider, really does like Bryzgalov. For GM Paul Holmgren to amnesty Bryz, Snider has to be convinced by others that is the right course of action.

The better Bryzgalov plays at the end, the better chances of him staying.

One thing is certain. The Flyers need an extra $5-6million this summer to fix the defense. It can only come from either Bryzgalov or Danny Briere or both because the holes on defense have gotten larger as Andrej Meszaros future as an every day blue liner is very much in doubt at this point.

[radoran]

There really is no way to get a better goaltender without affecting the roster, and why would you do that unless you absolutely have to? WIth a healthy blueline and forwards who've gained another year of experience, the team as a whole should be better on defense next season.

Going with Bryz as the starter and Mason as the guy pushing to be #1 next season, it's virtually risk-free. If neither works out, you can buy out Bryz and let Mason go somewhere else.

And then we'll be right back where we are just about every 2 years.

This is where we are in this situation. And it's not, on the whole, a bad place to be.

[murraycraven]

WIth a healthy blueline and forwards who've gained another year of experience, the team as a whole should be better on defense next season.

-- this is what got us in trouble this year honestly. We hoped that the young kids would step up and it never happened. This is not to say it wont... Also, healthy or not this defense needs a major overhaul. Even healthy, the defense is below average IMO. If they keep Bryz to see what he can do for another year fine. If you can cut his massive cap hit for another goalie like Bernier I would be willing to part. Bernier is unproven but Bryz's monster contract and length is what is really scary... the guy is going to be 40 when it runs out.

It is going to be an interesting offseason!

[radoran]

If you can cut his massive cap hit for another goalie like Bernier I would be willing to part. Bernier is unproven but Bryz's monster contract and length is what is really scary... the guy is going to be 40 when it runs out.

It is going to be an interesting offseason!

This is the way to go. No "need" - but if opportunity knocks, answer the door.

[aziz]

<br />Given the BIG bucks he is making, it's very easy to make a case that he has been GOOD but not GREAT for that kind of money and you can get GOOD for a lot less.<br />

I really don't understand how this has gotten into the common mindset. he hasn't been GOOD. he's been TERRIBLE. when more than 1 out of every 10 shots go in, there is no fence to be on about it, that is just completely unacceptable at any salary. yes, the team has been bad, but varlamov and giguere have managed to keep their heads above that watermark in league-worst Colorado. defensively thin like paper tampa bay hasn't pushed its goalies below that level. just florida, calgary, and philly. how are people able to hedge on this? how is anyone, snider included, still out there going, "yeah, but..."?

[King Knut]

If you keep Bryz on the roster, THAT will affect the lineup negatively as well. His salary and the duration of his contract is handcuffing the team right now in terms of correcting some of the mistakes they made last off season.

If Matt Carle and Jagr are still on this team, I think we're looking at a much different situation. If we had a 3.5-4 million dollar goalie not looking to be on the books until the second coming, Homer can take greater measures to resign those two. Even so, there's no excuse for Homer not keeping Carle. None. Whatsoever. That decision has cost this team more than any he's ever made.

If you can Amnesty him next year, you don't "Have to", but I will reiterate that this off season is an advantageous time to make a move on Bernier due to his RFA status and Quick's new contract kicking in next year. Couple that with the fact that you're probably going to HAVE to Amnesty Bryz next year

I don't say this because I hate Bryz as a goalie as most here do. I think he's fine. And yes, good enough to win in the playoffs. ideal? Far from it, but the greater problem with him is that his contract is killing the team's ability to fill out it's roster. That's why he has to go.

and why would you do that unless you absolutely have to? WIth a healthy blueline and forwards who've gained another year of experience, the team as a whole should be better on defense next season.

[King Knut]

Agreed. I also think that playing a full season would have been more advantageous as far as helping the "kids" step up. The lack of time for practice, the sense of urgency every night. It's not a good environment for development of skill sets. Sophomore slumps are real things for reasons and breaking out of them is harder when you don't have a full sophomore year.

Even healthy, the defense is below average IMO.

[King Knut]

This just isn't realistic when you look at the goals the team has been giving up.

he's not giving up floaters from outside the circles the way Hextall or Garth snow did in '97.

He's not giving up huge rebounds directly to the opposition and putting himself grotesquely out of position the way Roman did those three years.

He's not immobile the way Boosh and Leighton were in '10.

He's making good saves and staying in position, swallowing when he has to and directing rebounds to the corners when he can.

He usually gives up goals on screens, deflections and undefended shots (breakaways and two on ones). These are typically situations when goalies aren't considered "at fault" for the goal.

His defense sucks. Seriously sucks. They're out and out terrible. There are simply no two ways about it.

Bryz isn't Bernie, or Hexy in '87 or Brodeur. Get over it. He's playing fairly well though considering what's going on in front of him.

I agree with the idea that the problem is his salary more than his play. His salary and its duration are preventing the team from making moves to put the sort of team in front of him that can win games consistently.

For that I think he needs to go. But seriously, anyone who thinks that putting Bobrovsky or most other goalies in that position instead of Bryz is just fooling himself and taking the really narrow Box Score only view of the team. The Defense was questionable before... now they're almost all hurt and it's been that way most of the season. This team's D is horrendous and yes... that really does have an impact on a goalie's stats. There really aren't any two ways around it.

Bryz might not be a vezina candidate with an NHL caliber Defense in front of him, but I guarantee you wouldn't be as hard on him if he did. He's fine. Fine isn't worth the money he's getting and for how long he's getting it when you need that money for a better Defense.

I really don't understand how this has gotten into the common mindset. he hasn't been GOOD. he's been TERRIBLE. when more than 1 out of every 10 shots go in, there is no fence to be on about it, that is just completely unacceptable at any salary. yes, the team has been bad, but varlamov and giguere have managed to keep their heads above that watermark in league-worst Colorado. defensively thin like paper tampa bay hasn't pushed its goalies below that level. just florida, calgary, and philly. how are people able to hedge on this? how is anyone, snider included, still out there going, "yeah, but..."?

[trevluk]

Yeah, I think there is a pretty good chance we have our goalie tandem for next year. I dont think Bryz will get bought out for a few reasons....

- Bryz hasnt been great, but the team has been pretty terrible around him. With a better team in front of him (primarily the D) I think his numbers would be markedly better.

- Bryz does have talent and has potential to be a very solid goalie. I think if he realizes his potential he could be a top 10 goalie in the league, and I dont think management is ready to give up on him yet after only one and a half seasons.

- Snider and Comcast have tons of money but even they dont want to eat the rest of that contract (35 mil left to be paid or something like that??!!). That's a lot of crow to eat. I think management would still like to see if they can get there money's worth out of this guy.

Edited April 9, 2013 by trevluk

[King Knut]

Bingo!

You see if you can swing the Bernier deal. He's RFA and the Kings have to pay Quick more than Bryz is getting next year (and do so for like 10 more years).

The way the game is now, I'm not even sure I'd want Quick at that Salary for that length of a contract. It's just insane and it screws you before too long.

If there was any team in the league we'd be able to swing this deal with it would be Lombardi, Hexy and the Kings (you're welcome very much Los Angeles).

Of course it depends on who you have to give up. I still say Coots is off limits. Draft picks not so much. We can't be too precious with our prospects.

Of course Homer will also have to figure out how to beef up the defense in the mean time (paying less for his goalies will help).

Of course Snyder will have a heart attack when he writes the check to buy out Bryz... so what. I'm sure he's got insurance.

If you can't make it happen without giving up too much, you cut your losses, get a D man or two someplace anyway and go with Bryz and Mason for a year, then sign Bernier when he's a UFA who wants a starting job and buy out Bryz NEXt year because you can't afford him and a decent team at the same time. Maybe after Briere and Timmo are off the books, but by then I probably won't be defending Bryz's acceptably not terrible, but not really inspiring play anymore.

This is the way to go. No "need" - but if opportunity knocks, answer the door.

[radoran]

Of course Snyder will have a heart attack when he writes the check to buy out Bryz... so what. I'm sure he's got insurance.

He doesn't need insurance, and it's not his bank account.

Comcast-Spectacor has to buy out Bryz.

Comcast has $12.42B in "cash on hand" according to their financials:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=CMCSA+Key+Statistics

$23M over the next 14 years is NOTHING for Comcast. Let's be serious. This is an organization that has paid Jody Shelley $1.1M a year for the past three seasons.

[murraycraven]

This is an organization that has paid Jody Shelley $1.1M a year for the past three seasons.

--- wow... totally forgot about that one! man, homer really can sign some stupid contracts...

[aziz]

head exploding.

.

This just isn't realistic when you look at the goals the team has been giving up.

he's not giving up floaters from outside the circles the way Hextall or Garth snow did in '97.

did you see the one he ducked on a few nights ago? the wrist shot from 45 feet? yeah, deflected. deflected like 30 feet in front of him. pretty much the definition of "floater".

He's not giving up huge rebounds directly to the opposition and putting himself grotesquely out of position the way Roman did those three years.

are we watching the same games? the ones where he pretty much specializes in punting rebounds into the slot?

He's not immobile the way Boosh and Leighton were in '10.

no, he's not. they look like flipping figure skaters next to him. the only goalie I've ever seen in the NHL that is less mobile than bryzgalov is giguere. ranging from his utter lack of lateral mobility to the fact it takes him a full 3/4's of a second to recover to his feet after dropping down, completely breaking stance to do it....I just can't believe someone just positively commented on his not being immobile. again, he is the definition.

He's making good saves and staying in position, swallowing when he has to and directing rebounds to the corners when he can.

he is making fewer saves per shot faced than all but 6 goalies in the NHL. bryzgalov sees fewer shots per game than goalies for 22 other teams, but stops fewer than all but 6. he is swallowing some shots, but I bet you take notice each time, because it is the exception, not the rule.

He usually gives up goals on screens, deflections and undefended shots (breakaways and two on ones). These are typically situations when goalies aren't considered "at fault" for the goal.

first, a correction: as a rule, he always gives up goals on screens, deflections and undefended shots (breakaways and two on ones). those will almost always go in.

and two, so you are saying the only saves you expect him to make are the wide open, unscreened, clean shots from predictable shooters who have not been able to gain a particularly large amount of space and/time? i.e., the easy ones? really? that's your expectation from an NHL goalie? i'll let you in on a little secret: all goalies from junior, college, ECHL, AHL, NHL, and most rec A leagues will stop the unscreened, undeflected shots from distance.

His defense sucks. Seriously sucks. They're out and out terrible. There are simply no two ways about it.

in many ways, yes. in other ways, they are just typical. believe it or not, they have allowed the 6th fewest shots on goal in the league. weird, right? that's not nothing. you're right, the shots they do give up tend to be quality opportunities, but do you see them as worse than, say, colorado? they give up the 6th MOST shots against, and they tend to be quality opportunities, too. have you seen their defensive depth chart? matt hunwick is their number 1 dman. then comes erik johnson, tyson barrie, greg zanon, jan hejda, and stefan elliot. if you said, "who?" for everyone but johnson, so did I. you wanna talk about an AHL defense, that is one right there. literally. and yet, colorado's goaltending, while far from spectacular -a ways from decent even- manage to stop at least 9 of every 10 shots they face. incredible, right?

Bryz isn't Bernie, or Hexy in '87 or Brodeur. Get over it. He's playing fairly well though considering what's going on in front of him.

to summarize everything I said above: no, he isn't. having a poor defense in front of him is not an excuse for being one of the worst goaltenders in the league. it might ultimately excuse his record, it is questionable whether the team would win with actual NHL goaltending right now, but it does not excuse his minute to minute and game to game performance.

that said, I will point out what I mentioned a few days ago: if you apply a strictly league average save percentage to the number of shots the team has allowed, you end up with a goals-against per game average significantly below the team's goals-for average. suggesting their goal differential becomes firmly positive (distantly negative right now), which would lead you to believe quite a few losses would have turned out differently.

This team's D is horrendous and yes... that really does have an impact on a goalie's stats. There really aren't any two ways around it.

Bryz might not be a vezina candidate with an NHL caliber Defense in front of him, but I guarantee you wouldn't be as hard on him if he did. He's fine. Fine isn't worth the money he's getting and for how long he's getting it when you need that money for a better Defense.

true-ish. again, though, there *are* teams in the league with worse bluelines, and some of them have goalies who are still able to look like they belong in the NHL. colorado is an example, but just one. buffalo is another. edmonton is another. capable goaltending has taken ottawa, with a seriously horrible dcorps, into a playoff berth. toronto. washington. none of these teams are putting a superior set of 6 defensemen on the ice each night, but they ARE getting superior goaltending. in some cases, colorado, edmonton, buffalo, it doesn't mean anything, they are still missing the postseason. ottawa, toronto, washington, on the other hand, it is making all the difference. tell them that no goalie in the world can help a bad team succeed.

[DaGreatGazoo]

I think this thread has gone off track a bit..this is not about how we feel about Bryz...99.9% of us share the same opinion. It's a question about the organization's view of Bryz. And for those NOT in the Philly TV market, there was a TV interview with Lisa Hillary and Ed Snider 2 weekends ago. this is an exact quote by Snider...

"I think he's been fine"...when talking about Bryz.

For now, that is all we need to know about what the Flyers are going to do after this season..I don't like it at all, but I have a pretty strong feeling they will NOT be buying him out after this year. Not sure what they are going to do about the cap dropping, the blue line, etc...but I think we have another season of the Bryzaster.

[murraycraven]

I just dont see the point in keeping him when we are paying him an elite salary. He is not an elite goalie and I think 1 1/2 seasons has proven as much. We get rid of Bob b/c he was making too much as a backup and now we are in the same exact boat w/ Mason as the backup? How does the OrganIzation even try to explain that?

That is a lot of money going into one position. The cap is going down so something is going to have to give. This defense needs to be overhauled and we are eventually going to have to pay G, Schenn, Cooter, etc...

Why would you keep paying for a Porsche when all you are getting is a Mazda?

[aziz]

.

[King Knut]

You've never played in net have you? When he "ducked" I could tell immediately who had ever played a game in net and who hadn't. Do this for me wherever you are, just for kicks. raise your shoulders up as high as you can as fast as you can and tell me what happens with your head?

-It was an unfortunate play, and he committed way too early to the butterfly on the play, but he didn't duck. He was on his way down and the puck deflected up over his shoulder. He was trying to heave his shoulders up in desperation because he was already too low to make the stop. It was stupid and looked idiotic, but he was trying to make the save. It looked like he ducked because throwing his shoulders up makes your head bob down. But whatever, it's inconsequential It was a deflected shot and 9 times out of 10 a goalie gets a pass on those from the team, the fans and the announcers. He just looked like a moron so he took flack, but he was actually trying to make a save. The duck wasn't the problem, the problem was that he committed too soon to a low shot that got deflected almost immediately after leaving the shooter's stick. But whatever.

-When he does give up rebounds (and every goalie does) he's in position for them. That's not where the majority of the goals against him are coming from.

"no, he's not. they look like flipping figure skaters next to him."

-you sir are certifiably insane. Or perhaps you were in a coma during the 2010 playoffs? He moves laterally better than any goalie we've had in Philly since I dont know when. Roman might have been quicker, but then again Roman was as likely to end up in the first row as he was to end up at the far past when going pole to pole.

"he is making fewer saves per shot faced than all but 6 goalies in the NHL.'

-again... you either aren't reading what I wrote or don't know hockey... Good defense prevents high quality chances, Bad defense increases the likelihood of high quality chances. Most goalies in this league would be giving up most of the goals Bryz is giving up. They are HIGH QUALITY CHANCES. THey are this way because the Flyers defense is TERRIBLE.

Would you read and comprehend instead of rushing to zealotous judgement. I'm not saying he's good. I'm saying he's serviceable and the folks like you who want to blame the season are him are absolutely just making fools of yourselves. THIS IS A BAD TEAM WITH MANY BAD ASPECTS. Bryz is an average to slightly above average aspect of this team. If a Bryz playing like this was in net for the Flyers in 2010, they'd have won the cup... because that year their goalies were all hurt and mediocre to begin with. Bryz is fine. Not great. Not Terrible. Fine. Good enough to win in this league. Not good enough to carry a team on his back to the finals.

You're smarter than to think the things your saying about him. I truly believe you are. You're just emotional and like most Flyer Fans you need someone specific to demonize and blame for everything wrong.

It ain't Bryz. He needs to go. They need to change that situation. But not because he's terrible. He's not.

Ask any goalie or coach in the league... would you rather face 50 low percentage shots in a game or 20 extremely high percentage shots in a game?

It's math. If you face 50 shots players only score from 5% of the time you're going to give up fewer goals than if you face 20 shots players score from 50% of the time.

The Flyers defense IS bad. They're slow, they can't play position defense, they have terrible "vision" and they can't pass and they have no idea where the hell their forwards are most of the time. This leads to increased high percentage shots.

Even Timmo who can pass and can see and can play position based Defense well tends to overcommit on offense and this leads to breakaways and two on ones. The last penguins game was lost because Timmo screwed up at the blue line. Our best guy gave up a two on one by playing extremely poorly. Which is worse for a goalie? I D-Man not finishing a check along the boards by the circle or a D man who gives up a 2 on 1 in an extremely tight game?

" if you apply a strictly league average save percentage to the number of shots the team has allowed, you end up with a goals-against per game average significantly below the team's goals-for average. suggesting their goal differential becomes firmly positive (distantly negative right now), which would lead you to believe quite a few losses would have turned out differently."

-That's completely irrelevant math, but I'm glad you can do it because it's kind of fun to play with stats like that. The point is that That does nothing to reflect what those goalies would do on THIS team. Crunching their numbers with this team's shot totals does nothing to reflect the ACTUAL SHOTS they're giving up. That's what's relevant here. But whatever. We both want the same thing. Buy out Bryz. Everyone wins.

head exploding.

This just isn't realistic when you look at the goals the team has been giving up.

he's not giving up floaters from outside the circles the way Hextall or Garth snow did in '97.

did you see the one he ducked on a few nights ago? the wrist shot from 45 feet? yeah, deflected. deflected like 30 feet in front of him. pretty much the definition of "floater".

He's not giving up huge rebounds directly to the opposition and putting himself grotesquely out of position the way Roman did those three years.

are we watching the same games? the ones where he pretty much specializes in punting rebounds into the slot?

He's not immobile the way Boosh and Leighton were in '10.

no, he's not. they look like flipping figure skaters next to him. the only goalie I've ever seen in the NHL that is less mobile than bryzgalov is giguere. ranging from his utter lack of lateral mobility to the fact it takes him a full 3/4's of a second to recover to his feet after dropping down, completely breaking stance to do it....I just can't believe someone just positively commented on his not being immobile. again, he is the definition.

He's making good saves and staying in position, swallowing when he has to and directing rebounds to the corners when he can.

he is making fewer saves per shot faced than all but 6 goalies in the NHL. bryzgalov sees fewer shots per game than goalies for 22 other teams, but stops fewer than all but 6. he is swallowing some shots, but I bet you take notice each time, because it is the exception, not the rule.

He usually gives up goals on screens, deflections and undefended shots (breakaways and two on ones). These are typically situations when goalies aren't considered "at fault" for the goal.

first, a correction: as a rule, he always gives up goals on screens, deflections and undefended shots (breakaways and two on ones). those will almost always go in.

and two, so you are saying the only saves you expect him to make are the wide open, unscreened, clean shots from predictable shooters who have not been able to gain a particularly large amount of space and/time? i.e., the easy ones? really? that's your expectation from an NHL goalie? i'll let you in on a little secret: all goalies from junior, college, ECHL, AHL, NHL, and most rec A leagues will stop the unscreened, undeflected shots from distance.

His defense sucks. Seriously sucks. They're out and out terrible. There are simply no two ways about it.

in many ways, yes. in other ways, they are just typical. believe it or not, they have allowed the 6th fewest shots on goal in the league. weird, right? that's not nothing. you're right, the shots they do give up tend to be quality opportunities, but do you see them as worse than, say, colorado? they give up the 6th MOST shots against, and they tend to be quality opportunities, too. have you seen their defensive depth chart? matt hunwick is their number 1 dman. then comes erik johnson, tyson barrie, greg zanon, jan hejda, and stefan elliot. if you said, "who?" for everyone but johnson, so did I. you wanna talk about an AHL defense, that is one right there. literally. and yet, colorado's goaltending, while far from spectacular -a ways from decent even- manage to stop at least 9 of every 10 shots they face. incredible, right?

Bryz isn't Bernie, or Hexy in '87 or Brodeur. Get over it. He's playing fairly well though considering what's going on in front of him.

to summarize everything I said above: no, he isn't. having a poor defense in front of him is not an excuse for being one of the worst goaltenders in the league. it might ultimately excuse his record, it is questionable whether the team would win with actual NHL goaltending right now, but it does not excuse his minute to minute and game to game performance.

that said, I will point out what I mentioned a few days ago: if you apply a strictly league average save percentage to the number of shots the team has allowed, you end up with a goals-against per game average significantly below the team's goals-for average. suggesting their goal differential becomes firmly positive (distantly negative right now), which would lead you to believe quite a few losses would have turned out differently.

This team's D is horrendous and yes... that really does have an impact on a goalie's stats. There really aren't any two ways around it.

Bryz might not be a vezina candidate with an NHL caliber Defense in front of him, but I guarantee you wouldn't be as hard on him if he did. He's fine. Fine isn't worth the money he's getting and for how long he's getting it when you need that money for a better Defense.

true-ish. again, though, there *are* teams in the league with worse bluelines, and some of them have goalies who are still able to look like they belong in the NHL. colorado is an example, but just one. buffalo is another. edmonton is another. capable goaltending has taken ottawa, with a seriously horrible dcorps, into a playoff berth. toronto. washington. none of these teams are putting a superior set of 6 defensemen on the ice each night, but they ARE getting superior goaltending. in some cases, colorado, edmonton, buffalo, it doesn't mean anything, they are still missing the postseason. ottawa, toronto, washington, on the other hand, it is making all the difference. tell them that no goalie in the world can help a bad team succeed.

[murraycraven]

.

-- well played Aziz, well played... f'd up but well played my friend.

[King Knut]

Yes, and I'm sure that what might be the largest Entertainment and Cable Company in the world wants to focus that 12 and a half billion on is the Philadelphia Flyers goaltender.

The Flyers are a subsidiary and they have a budget just like any subsidiary. They can't go to their corporate masters and just say, "Hey, I need an extra 25 million this year because I was an idiot two years ago".

And quite frankly, I know it's not Snyders Check book, you know it's not Snyder's check book... but do you really think HE knows it's not his check book? that notwithstanding, I think for him it's far more about his ego than his balance sheet. For Comcast, it's far more about the balance sheet.

Comcast has $12.42B in "cash on hand" according to their financials:

http://finance.yahoo... Key Statistics

[murraycraven]

You've never played in net have you? When he "ducked" I could tell immediately who had ever played a game in net and who hadn't. Do this for me wherever you are, just for kicks. raise your shoulders up as high as you can as fast as you can and tell me what happens with your head?

-It was an unfortunate play, and he committed way too early to the butterfly on the play, but he didn't duck. He was on his way down and the puck deflected up over his shoulder. He was trying to heave his shoulders up in desperation because he was already too low to make the stop. It was stupid and looked idiotic, but he was trying to make the save. It looked like he ducked because throwing his shoulders up makes your head bob down. But whatever, it's inconsequential It was a deflected shot and 9 times out of 10 a goalie gets a pass on those from the team, the fans and the announcers. He just looked like a moron so he took flack, but he was actually trying to make a save. The duck wasn't the problem, the problem was that he committed too soon to a low shot that got deflected almost immediately after leaving the shooter's stick. But whatever.

-When he does give up rebounds (and every goalie does) he's in position for them. That's not where the majority of the goals against him are coming from.

"no, he's not. they look like flipping figure skaters next to him."

-you sir are certifiably insane. Or perhaps you were in a coma during the 2010 playoffs? He moves laterally better than any goalie we've had in Philly since I dont know when. Roman might have been quicker, but then again Roman was as likely to end up in the first row as he was to end up at the far past when going pole to pole.

"he is making fewer saves per shot faced than all but 6 goalies in the NHL.'

-again... you either aren't reading what I wrote or don't know hockey... Good defense prevents high quality chances, Bad defense increases the likelihood of high quality chances. Most goalies in this league would be giving up most of the goals Bryz is giving up. They are HIGH QUALITY CHANCES. THey are this way because the Flyers defense is TERRIBLE.

Would you read and comprehend instead of rushing to zealotous judgement. I'm not saying he's good. I'm saying he's serviceable and the folks like you who want to blame the season are him are absolutely just making fools of yourselves. THIS IS A BAD TEAM WITH MANY BAD ASPECTS. Bryz is an average to slightly above average aspect of this team. If a Bryz playing like this was in net for the Flyers in 2010, they'd have won the cup... because that year their goalies were all hurt and mediocre to begin with. Bryz is fine. Not great. Not Terrible. Fine. Good enough to win in this league. Not good enough to carry a team on his back to the finals.

You're smarter than to think the things your saying about him. I truly believe you are. You're just emotional and like most Flyer Fans you need someone specific to demonize and blame for everything wrong.

It ain't Bryz. He needs to go. They need to change that situation. But not because he's terrible. He's not.

Ask any goalie or coach in the league... would you rather face 50 low percentage shots in a game or 20 extremely high percentage shots in a game?

It's math. If you face 50 shots players only score from 5% of the time you're going to give up fewer goals than if you face 20 shots players score from 50% of the time.

The Flyers defense IS bad. They're slow, they can't play position defense, they have terrible "vision" and they can't pass and they have no idea where the hell their forwards are most of the time. This leads to increased high percentage shots.

Even Timmo who can pass and can see and can play position based Defense well tends to overcommit on offense and this leads to breakaways and two on ones. The last penguins game was lost because Timmo screwed up at the blue line. Our best guy gave up a two on one by playing extremely poorly. Which is worse for a goalie? I D-Man not finishing a check along the boards by the circle or a D man who gives up a 2 on 1 in an extremely tight game?

" if you apply a strictly league average save percentage to the number of shots the team has allowed, you end up with a goals-against per game average significantly below the team's goals-for average. suggesting their goal differential becomes firmly positive (distantly negative right now), which would lead you to believe quite a few losses would have turned out differently."

-That's completely irrelevant math, but I'm glad you can do it because it's kind of fun to play with stats like that. The point is that That does nothing to reflect what those goalies would do on THIS team. Crunching their numbers with this team's shot totals does nothing to reflect the ACTUAL SHOTS they're giving up. That's what's relevant here. But whatever. We both want the same thing. Buy out Bryz. Everyone wins.

-- well, I never played Goalie (forward) but you sound like a goalie trying to peg everything on the defense. The guy is being PAID to be an elite goalie! Surely he can put up stats on a ****ty team that are at least decent right?

I Coach and have a very good friend who is a goaltending coach that was drafted by the Kings and currently runs his own Goaltending program. I see him every Tuesday on the ice and we always talk about the Flyers. Every time we get on the topic of Bryz he laughs and always says one thing: "overrated"

Bob moved laterally so much better than Bryz that it is not even an argument...

[aziz]

You've never played in net have you?

for 20 years.

and the shoulders up/head down thing is silly. sure, head drops some when gloves/shoulders go straight up, but it doesn't turn face down. watch it again, he actively ducks his head. his cage points directly at the ice. for me, in that spot, my reaction is to heave my body up at the puck coming high, not pull my center mass down. still might've scored on me, i'm only 5'9", but he did the exact opposite of what, in my experience, he should have done.

I could go into the mobility, talk about you being a crazy person suggesting he has the best lateral movement of any flyers goalie since you don't know when....especially given bobrovsky, the goalie with the best lateral movement of any goalie I've seen in 10 years, was a flyer just a few seasons ago. what's the point, though? you see quality, I see absolute trash. I saw absolute trash back when he was in Anaheim, as I marveled at how two goalies as terrible as bryzgalov and giguere could possibly be on a cup winning team, I saw trash as he utterly failed the coyotes round one followed by round one in epically embarrassing form, and I have seen trash in a season and a half in philly. you, somehow, don't. and you think he's one of the best skaters the flyers have ever had (again: head exploding). so. we'll leave this be. I guess.

[aziz]

-- well played Aziz, well played... f'd up but well played my friend.

it hurt me, though. I had one of those. blue. was my favorite car ever.

[aziz]

<br />The Flyers are a subsidiary and they have a budget just like any subsidiary. They can't go to their corporate masters and just say, "Hey, I need an extra 25 million this year because I was an idiot two years ago".<br />

not trying to be snarky, really don't know the answer: what is the payment schedule on buyouts? is it lump sum right now, or does it match the normal cap hit schedule, or 2/3rds of the remaining value paid over twice the remaining length?

if it is lump sum, then I can see Comcast being hesitant to do it. if it is payments over time, I don't see what the problem would be, they were planning on paying him, anyway, and this way, they end up paying less.

[radoran]

Yes, and I'm sure that what might be the largest Entertainment and Cable Company in the world wants to focus that 12 and a half billion on is the Philadelphia Flyers goaltender.

No, they have to focus $23M over the next 14 years. $1.67M or so a season.

Again, this is a group that has paid Jody Shelley $1.1M a year to be on the roster. For the past three years.

If you want to get into balance sheets, that's where the sunk costs on the asset may play a role in the organization ultimately deciding not to buy him out.

[radoran]

not trying to be snarky, really don't know the answer: what is the payment schedule on buyouts? is it lump sum right now, or does it match the normal cap hit schedule, or 2/3rds of the remaining value paid over twice the remaining length?

if it is lump sum, then I can see Comcast being hesitant to do it. if it is payments over time, I don't see what the problem would be, they were planning on paying him, anyway, and this way, they end up paying less.

2/3 remaining on the deal over twice the remaining term.

Again, about $1.6M or so a year for 14 years. Capgeek has the actual number.