Old School Hockey Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 But what happens when there are differing opinions about what is opinion vs what is fact? Therein lies the rub.Fact is Bertuzzi had 39 points in 76 games in his first season while Moore had 12 points in 69 games total NHL games. Bertuzzi was in the minor ONE time in career. Moore was a call up for injuries. To say Moore had more potential than Bertuzzi's 47m lifetime salary is ridiculous at best.Everything I noted above except for the sentence is fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 The truth is in the injuries and life impact they have.I've played and watched a long time too man, but assessment of talent remains opinion. And they sue for earnings POTENTIAL, which none of us can quantify by saying what he'd become. Some skaters are written off then bloom after everyone gives up on them. There's just no way if knowing what will be. If there were drafting would be much easier.The thing is, the courts are going to try to do just that. One side is going to say he would have made X and have GM's tesify in his favor, the opposing side is going to try to say he would have made Y and have GM's testify in their favor. Moore's side is apparently also trying to say he would have made multi millions in financial services in life after Hockey. The opposing lawyers of course, are questioning it, etc etc The most recent fight is the Canucks Lawyer wants access to Moore's financial records for the past 10 years, which Moore's lawyer is trying to block. Apparently they found some document which shows he made $140000 a certain year after his hockey career, and they are trying to deny access to his financial records saying it was a one time payment by his family, etc it all gets ugly from here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 @Old School Hockey Bertuzzi pled guilty to assault. Period. Guilt is no longer the issue, damages are. Crawford, Burke and the Canucks all settled with Bert agreeing to pay an unspecified amount of the settlement. This is a walk. Hey, Polaris is a great guy, one of my favorite posters in here. I think everyone needs to simply back away from the ledge and take a deep breath and bash on Kenny Holland. That is what I do when I get too worked up and it seems to help.We are not talking about guilt or innocence. We are talking about an AHL call up being compared to an NHL player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I'm the conductor!! Who's in the caboose? Giroux grabbed the caboose!Well played sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 We are not talking about guilt or innocence. We are talking about an AHL call up being compared to an NHL player.No, forget hockey. We are talking about a human being who was injured on the job by a malicious incident in which his coworker pled guilty. It is about a criminal assault that is now down to compensatory damages being awarded. Nothing else. It is not about Hockey, it is about life. Of course my wife wears a shirt that says Hockey is life, so that may be where my argument falls apart. Using your argument, if a rich guy breaks the neck of a wino does that mean he is any the less financially liable simply because the man was a vagrant? I personally cannot see that through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 @Old School Hockey Bertuzzi pled guilty to assault. Period. Guilt is no longer the issue, damages are. Crawford, Burke and the Canucks all settled with Bert agreeing to pay an unspecified amount of the settlement. This is a walk. Hey, Polaris is a great guy, one of my favorite posters in here. I think everyone needs to simply back away from the ledge and take a deep breath and bash on Kenny Holland. That is what I do when I get too worked up and it seems to help.Frig that. Doug Wilson is the guy to bash! His idea of a rebuild is to realize everyone has no trade clauses so he cannot trade anyone, and decide simply not to fill Roster holes when we are a top 4 LHD away from contention and force kids from Worchester Sharks into the NHL to develop. Who will be our left side defenders? Fill in the question marks with one of Mirco Mueller? Matt Tenneson? Konrad Abeltshauser?Vlasic/Burns?????/Braun?????/DemersIrwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 No, forget hockey. We are talking about a human being who was injured on the job by a malicious incident in which his coworker pled guilty. It is about a criminal assault that is now down to compensatory damages being awarded. Nothing else. It is not about Hockey, it is about life. Of course my wife wears a shirt that says Hockey is life, so that may be where my argument falls apart. Using your argument, if a rich guy breaks the neck of a wino does that mean he is any the less financially liable simply because the man was a vagrant? I personally cannot see that through.Ok. Would a $15/hour employee get compensated the same a CEO for the same attack? And that's really not that far off when comparing Moore to an NHL player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 @Old School HockeyI wasn't disputing anything you said, just trolling the thread for levity. Most of what I have to say is generally pointless and futile.@hf101Cut that out, you know I confuse easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Fact is Bertuzzi had 39 points in 76 games in his first season while Moore had 12 points in 69 games total NHL games. Bertuzzi was in the minor ONE time in career. Moore was a call up for injuries. To say Moore had more potential than Bertuzzi's 47m lifetime salary is ridiculous at best.Everything I noted above except for the sentence is fact.That's the thing though... It's about potential. The man has a documented 130+ IQ and now has brain damage. What if he'd played say... Six years in the NHL then got into coaching or marketing or became an agent? How much could he have made? Or even on a two way contract how much would he have made?Now add his damages which the Canadian cap DOES allow to go higher for life changing injuries according to some Canadian attorneys... Bertuzzi's worth doesn't matter. The aftermath of his actions does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Well played sir!Thank you... It just kinda grabbed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Frig that. Doug Wilson is the guy to bash! His idea of a rebuild is to realize everyone has no trade clauses so he cannot trade anyone, and decide simply not to fill Roster holes when we are a top 4 LHD away from contention and force kids from Worchester Sharks into the NHL to develop. Who will be our left side defenders? Fill in the question marks with one of Mirco Mueller? Matt Tenneson? Konrad Abeltshauser?Vlasic/Burns?????/Braun?????/DemersIrwinJohn Scott? Meh. Eheh. Hee hee hee. Ahhaaaaa Bwaaa haaa. Thank God Holland didn't do that, I would have had an aneurism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 That's the thing though... It's about potential. The man has a documented 130+ IQ and now has brain damage. What if he'd played say... Six years in the NHL then got into coaching or marketing or became an agent? How much could he have made? Or even on a two way contract how much would he have made?Now add his damages which the Canadian cap DOES allow to go higher for life changing injuries according to some Canadian attorneys... Bertuzzi's worth doesn't matter. The aftermath of his actions does.Any YOU have proof of said brain damage? Come on man his attorney's are trumping everything up.Here's a very simple question? If he's so bad off why did his legal team forbid Moore from entertaining the contract offer he was offered and let the physical tell the story? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 This thread can only be better by posting the most ignorant parking job ever seen! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 John Scott? Meh. Eheh. Hee hee hee. Ahhaaaaa Bwaaa haaa. Thank God Holland didn't do that, I would have had an aneurism.Dude, I threw my drink when i read that. Wilson blathers about not signing vets to steal roster spots from the younger players because we are "A tomorrow team" now, not trying to win.......Then he resigns Brown, and then, Scott. Losing Stuart was addition by subtraction.....But Scott? Our tomorrow team looks a lot like yesterdays team. Maybe Wilson is going full retard on LA with goons in the season opener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 @J0e Th0rnton The only thing the Wings did is add four foot two Andy Miele and 28 year old Kevin Porter who between them will Make Grand Rapids more competitive but wont play in Detroit unless there are lots and lots of injuries. And Holland resigned Quincey. For a raise. Quincey must have pics of Holland riding a Shetland pony naked or something like that locked up in a safe deposit box. Worst. Offseason. Ever. The only plus was addition by subtraction, we managed to clear Samuelsson, Cleary, Bertuzzi and Tootoo off the books. That is about it. I am so mad I am thinking of naming my dog Kenny Holland and kicking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 @J0e Th0rnton The only thing the Wings did is add four foot two Andy Miele and 28 year old Kevin Porter who between them will Make Grand Rapids more competitive but wont play in Detroit unless there are lots and lots of injuries. And Holland resigned Quincey. For a raise. Quincey must have pics of Holland riding a Shetland pony naked or something like that locked up in a safe deposit box. Worst. Offseason. Ever. The only plus was addition by subtraction, we managed to clear Samuelsson, Cleary, Bertuzzi and Tootoo off the books. That is about it. I am so mad I am thinking of naming my dog Kenny Holland and kicking it.Could be worse. VLC and Umberger could be our 2nd and 3rd highest paid forwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Could be worse. VLC and Umberger could be our 2nd and 3rd highest paid forwardsouch. now that is just cruel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Ok. Would a $15/hour employee get compensated the same a CEO for the same attack? And that's really not that far off when comparing Moore to an NHL player.Tough question goes unanswered. Do we realize what Moore is asking for is more than Yzerman made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Old school, I have spoken my mind to the nth degree on the subject in here. Moore is going to make Millions, likely tens of millions by the time it is done. Not worth getting so worked up about. But no, to me, a person is a person is a person, a wino, a CEO, we are go from the stink of the diddy to the stench of the shroud. Moore is going to get paid much, much more than he would have a decade ago if the league had treated this as a unique case and settled long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Any YOU have proof of said brain damage? Come on man his attorney's are trumping everything up.Here's a very simple question? If he's so bad off why did his legal team forbid Moore from entertaining the contract offer he was offered and let the physical tell the story?Simple answer. If he accepted the contract offer and was either unable to play or simply put on waivers after he weakened his case for restitution significantly. Add that to his doctors saying he would not be cleared to play and the NHL's own comp insurance providers BOTH agreeing he would not be medically cleared and you have the offer for what it was... A legal ploy by the NHL to reduce liability for court. The proof of brain damage lay in the medical teams' diagnosis of long term effects post concussion damage. The hospital trauma staff and both insurer's again agreed with the findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Tough question goes unanswered. Do we realize what Moore is asking for is more than Yzerman made?Actually the wino would be dead and his surviving family would be made millionaires by suing the responsible party. Seen it a few times actually. One was an ex-wife and two kids getting $15 million in a wrongful death suit over their father the drunk dying after being hit by a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Old school, I have spoken my mind to the nth degree on the subject in here. Moore is going to make Millions, likely tens of millions by the time it is done. Not worth getting so worked up about. But no, to me, a person is a person is a person, a wino, a CEO, we are go from the stink of the diddy to the stench of the shroud. Moore is going to get paid much, much more than he would have a decade ago if the league had treated this as a unique case and settled long ago.Old school, I have spoken my mind to the nth degree on the subject in here. Moore is going to make Millions, likely tens of millions by the time it is done. Not worth getting so worked up about. But no, to me, a person is a person is a person, a wino, a CEO, we are go from the stink of the diddy to the stench of the shroud. Moore is going to get paid much, much more than he would have a decade ago if the league had treated this as a unique case and settled long ago.The point is workers are compensated based on their worth. And Moore is not Yzerman.I feel Moore should be compensated. But not in the Yzerman, Jagr, Fedorov level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 The point is workers are compensated based on their worth. And Moore is not Yzerman.I feel Moore should be compensated. But not in the Yzerman, Jagr, Fedorov level.respect your opinion. life simply does not work that way tho. never has, never will. peace, gotta get some rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School Hockey Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Simple answer. If he accepted the contract offer and was either unable to play or simply put on waivers after he weakened his case for restitution significantly. Add that to his doctors saying he would not be cleared to play and the NHL's own comp insurance providers BOTH agreeing he would not be medically cleared and you have the offer for what it was... A legal ploy by the NHL to reduce liability for court. The proof of brain damage lay in the medical teams' diagnosis of long term effects post concussion damage. The hospital trauma staff and both insurer's again agreed with the findings.Until the medical issues are made public it's 100% hearsay for us to debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Could be worse. VLC and Umberger could be our 2nd and 3rd highest paid forwardsOh my god REPORTED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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