Bill Meltzer - Today's Blog - Meltzer's Musings: Status Quo, Quick Hits

[Vanflyer]

This part I know for sure, Del Zotto has tremendous offensive upside. He can run a top pp. That is a very valuable skill in this league...so the fact he is still available. is curious to say the least.....has me worried.

 

Can he play left wing? 

[jammer2]

@Vanflyer  It sounds a bit crazy, but I'd give the kid a look at LW or just W in general. He's bad enough in his own end, he just might need to reinvent himself to stick in this league.

[Vanflyer]

It sounds a bit crazy, but I'd give the kid a look at LW or just W in general. He's bad enough in his own end, he just might need to reinvent himself to stick in this league.

 

If he already has an offensive game and can skate, why not. wing is significantly easier to play than D. 

[jammer2]

@Vanflyer  Ya know, I would try that, he has a nice hard accurate shot, and he'd be shooting from 20 feet in from where he usually tees it up from. Problem is, he's a hard guy to teach. He may have to sit idle for a year and realize that stubborn attitude of his will have to go, or he will soon find out what working in the *real* world entails.

[Vanflyer]

Problem is, he's a hard guy to teach. He may have to sit idle for a year and realize that stubborn attitude of his will have to go, or he will soon find out what working in the *real* world entails.

 

Much easier to drill lessons on how to play wing into a players head than how to play d. The only thing I would ponder (you would know this), is a large part of his offensive prowess generated off the rush where he is carrying the puck out and playing dipsy doodle, or is power play where he is already set-up.

 

I have no qualms with moving a guy like that to wing and playing him on point on the PP (particularly if he has d experience- regardless how good he is at it- if he can skate, the times he would have to get back should not be that much on a PP).

[jammer2]

@Vanflyer  I can see him having a role as a power play specialist for a team. For a team lacking a legit pp qb, a guy like Del Zotto would be perfect as a 7th d-man. He has a fair amount of NHL experience now, so if one of the top 6 went down, he could play a regular shift....other than an injury though, you just utilize him on the pp and a few shifts here and there.

[flyercanuck]

@Vanflyer  Ya know, I would try that, he has a nice hard accurate shot, and he'd be shooting from 20 feet in from where he usually tees it up from. Problem is, he's a hard guy to teach. He may have to sit idle for a year and realize that stubborn attitude of his will have to go, or he will soon find out what working in the *real* world entails.

 

 I've always wondered if he's from the Tridel Del Zottos...it's not a common name and would shed some light on where the holier than thou attitude comes from. If he is, coming from the family that owns half the condos in Toronto, he's never known the "real" world.

[Vanflyer]

other than an injury though, you just utilize him on the pp and a few shifts here and there.

 

I guess its an ending thought. For me- a no nothing, I would utilize skill and manipulate it to make it work. Including moving a centerman to wing. For me and for all the posters here on the VLC convo, playing center is the third hardest position behind d and then goaltending. Moving to wing is a cake walk. I am not joking about this. I get the VLC does NOT want to play wing. Thats a homer stupidity as the flyers did not need another centerman. The fact he can not adapt to an easier position is complete bs. He is making multi-millions and was bought out. For me, I say eff off if you can not even "adapt" to an easier position. 

 

How many of us have played both serious hockey and pond / beer league hockey. The transition from center to wing is so much easier. Arent we prognosticating that our 22 y/o center can do just that to fill the LW whole on the top line. If a yungin' like that can do it, why can't an old tooth that is way over paid can't adjust. 

 

You want to know why, he is not any good anymore. He is lazy and does not want to work the corners or behind the net. He wants to do a rush and score, play the PP and score and gaze at his teammates while they bust their butts back checking while he inadvertently does a shift change. 

 

THIS is why VLC has not been moved. 

 

Buy the douche out and be done with it. Riddens the homer era. 

"

Edited July 8, 2014 by Vanflyer

[Podein25]

@Vanflyer

 

I don't disagree with anything you said about VLC, except that it may not be as easy or simple as you say to switch to wing. Wing is easier, don;t get me wrong. Few responsibilities etc.

 

But I for one was never able to be comfortable at wing when moved from center. I found myself out of the play all the time, half a step in front or behind always. Very frustrating. I felt unable to anticipate like I used to and just not effective. For a read and react type player, it can be very difficult to do. You go from being a player who can dictate the play (on a good day) to a bystander. I hated it and it showed. Coaches put me back at center promptly every time.

[Vanflyer]

But I for one was never able to be comfortable at wing when moved from center. I found myself out of the play all the time, half a step in front or behind always. Very frustrating. I felt unable to anticipate like I used to and just not effective. For a read and react type player, it can be very difficult to do. You go from being a player who can dictate the play (on a good day) to a bystander. I hated it and it showed. Coaches put me back at center promptly every time.

 

I guess for me, playing both d and winger, I don't fathom. I slotted center a couple of times, but sucked at it (horrible on drawls and horrible on coverage deep in the zone). So for my perspective, it would be a walk in the park. Cam Neely, Mark Recchi, many other guys that played prolifically at wing. Heck, even rensberge. Of course all had a great centerman, but that is not VLC. To move to wing at this stage should not be a stutter step. It should be easier- especially considering his inability to back check and play defense. He has less skating footage to cover.

 

He won't be gone until the trade deadline unless Nashville is desparate to replace fisher. Play him as 4th line center. And then we can no longer say to Phaneuf "suckit" Bellemare score 20 this year.

[Podein25]

@Vanflyer

I'm sure Hexy is trying to trade him. I think it will come down to how much salary he is willing to eat to get someone to take him. It's probably a lot.

[Vanflyer]

I'm sure Hexy is trying to trade him. I think it will come down to how much salary he is willing to eat to get someone to take him. It's probably a lot.

 

I just looked at his "buyout" on Cap Geek : http://www.capgeek.com/buyout-calculator/?player_id=884

 

What I think is that Hextall will just bide his time. As for "salary to eat", Its the "buyout" cap hit next year and following season that stings (3m per annul).  Given the bind the Flyers are in, that is a bullet that can be digested as compared to this years constipation, where the buyout would be a 1.5m cap hit, and an immediate laxative. Hextall does not need to pull that rip chord until need be. 

 

I personally think that team (if they can not move him) are going to wait until after camp and pre-season before doing anything. Maybe Vinny gets his act together and shows up to camp in great shape (as Berube has dictated for the entire squad). Maybe he shows vigor and determination in both to prove the league wrong (lets admit it, the league has basically said "pass" on him). 

 

Also, his contract is not that bad. Sure the 4.5m stings, but he is only owed 3m per year salary wise on the remainder. The part that stings (I believe) for most teams is he is still owed another 4.5m in signing bonuses. 

 

I guess the question that cap geek does not answer is: if flyers pay for the 4.5m signing bonuses, what is their cap hit for that (ie, prorated for the remainder of the contract=1.1m per year for 4 years, OR a one time hit of 4.5m this upcoming season). If the later, then there is your rub. The Flyers need relief THIS year. 

 

So, here are the choices as I see them: 

 

1) Let the guy play 4th line center until trade deadline. 

 

2) Buy him out. 

 

3) Trade him, with cash going the other way to remove the sting of the 4.5m signing bonuses. 

 

I probably go with option 1. While the team is good, I don't think its stanley cup good. He will have only 3 years left on the contract with 8m left owed on salary (not sure on the signing bonus stuff). But even if the flyers kick in 2M towards that on the trade, it certainly must be prorated even against next year or the following). 

 

That option also give a bit of insurance for injury. 

 

It also automatically squelches the Laughton as a Flyer next year- which I think is a good thing. Let him play in the AHL until vinny is traded and then call him up. 

[Podein25]

@Vanflyer

 

Ok thanks. I was under-thinking it. What about "Goating" him? 

[Vanflyer]

What about "Goating" him? 

 

Gauthier? If so, refresh my feeble memory. 

[Podein25]

Gauthier? If so, refresh my feeble memory.

Yeah. AKA Wade Reddening. Waive him. Maybe some sap will claim him. If not, at the very least he gets to ride the bus and think about playing wing. I don't think it helps the Cap situation though, but I might be wrong about that.

[Vanflyer]

Yeah. AKA Wade Reddening. Waive him. Maybe some sap will claim him. If not, at the very least he gets to ride the bus and think about playing wing. I don't think it helps the Cap situation though, but I might be wrong about that.

 

There are many much smarter people than me on the board, but I do believe that his NTC eliminates that option. For example, if one a 1 way contract he can be waived. A 2way contract he can be sent to AHL hell to burn. But with at NTC, neither can happen. He (and his agent) get to dictate his fate alone- other than a buyout option (I think). 

 

I know that he has given his list of places to land for a trade (and thus Hextall allowing his agent to freely contact those teams- as the Flyers are not looking for anything in return). And here we sit, with nil in movement. Its not that he is horrible, I think its what I posted earlier (particularly the 4.5m still owed in signing bonuses). If the Flyers could eat that at a prorated amount for the length of the contract, I would just buy him out. If its a 1x shot against this years cap, then its a wash just to keep him and try to move him at the trade deadline. 

[jammer2]

@Podein25  Yeah, the new CBA post strike does not provide any cap relief for vet's being sent down to the AHL. I think you do recieve a piddly squat 100,000 savings on the entire year. Essentially, you can't hide these guys now. You make a bad deal, it's for keeps, which is another good reason to move Homer out of his position.

[jammer2]

@Vanflyer  Another factor moving forward is the expected cap jump for 2015....many figure it will be at or close to 80 million, which would essentially make VLC's contract a LOT more palatable. A 4.5 mill a year deal will have far less complications/consequences to a teams cap than it does for this year....at least if you listen to rumors.

[Podein25]

There are many much smarter people than me on the board, but I do believe that his NTC eliminates that option. For example, if one a 1 way contract he can be waived. A 2way contract he can be sent to AHL hell to burn. But with at NTC, neither can happen. He (and his agent) get to dictate his fate alone- other than a buyout option (I think).

Ah, of course. How soon I forget these things. Oh well, there's not much left for options: I guess the fans will have to drive him out of town.

[Vanflyer]

A 4.5 mill a year deal will have far less complications/consequences to a teams cap than it does for this year....at least if you listen to rumors.

 

Thats what I was thinking. If they buy him out, his cap hit for THIS year is 1.5 (so a 3m in cap saving). The only issue is that the following two years are 3m. If said rumors are true "ok". I think Hextall is hesitant to borrow from peter to pay paul, but will if the need is warranted. 

 

For me, it really comes down to Laughton / Schenn / our need for a top flight LW. 

 

If schenn comes to camp and states it put up / shut up for him style and can gel with G and V, then domino two slides into place> Couturier moves to second line center. Then domino 3 could slide into place (laughton makes the team out of camp and centers third line). 

 

If all those dominos are in play, then i push the buyout button for Vinny. If not then status quo and wait for a team that becomes decimated by injuries / in-need of a 2nd line aging center and willing to pay- before or at the trade deadline. One thing I think is certain is even if Vinny pots 25 this year, he will not be a Flyer next year. Hextalls modo is to build defense on outward and despite what Vinny can / might do on the offensive side, his defensive side negates most of that and that will just piss Hextall off to jettison him one way or another. 

[Vanflyer]

Ah, of course. How soon I forget these things. Oh well, there's not much left for options: I guess the fans will have to drive him out of town.

 

No worries. I have to beg, borrow or steal to pretend I remember things. 

 

Good to see you again. 

 

Cheers

[Podein25]

No worries. I have to beg, borrow or steal to pretend I remember things.

Good to see you again.

Cheers

Lol. You too.

[aziz]

There are many much smarter people than me on the board, but I do believe that his NTC eliminates that option. For example, if one a 1 way contract he can be waived. A 2way contract he can be sent to AHL hell to burn. But with at NTC, neither can happen. He (and his agent) get to dictate his fate alone

That's the difference between a no movement clause and a no trade clause. NTC, he can be sent to the minors, just can't be traded without input. NMC, can't do anything but leave him on the roster.

[Vanflyer]

That's the difference between a no movement clause and a no trade clause. NTC, he can be sent to the minors, just can't be traded without input. NMC, can't do anything but leave him on the roster.

 

Thanks Aziz- I was thinking of you when I typed that, that you would clarify or correct me. 

 

For @Podein25 , VLC had the latter (a NMC). 

 

@aziz

 

Since you are here, do you know anything about what happens with the signing bonus (VLC is still owed 4.5m) if: 

 

a) bought out?

 

b) traded (and the flyers want to absorb some portion of his salary)? 

 

 

As a side note, as bad as we all feel about the contract, reading that an additional 4.5m is owed in signing bonus just makes me want to puke. Did Homer fall off the wagon, or does VLC have unscrupulous pictures of homer doing things?? How on gods earth could that contract have been oky'd- even by mr senility Snider?? 

[aziz]

a) bought out?
 
b) traded (and the flyers want to absorb some portion of his salary)? 
 

 

i believe that in both cases, the signing bonus is part of the total value of the contract.  how that actually works, math-wise, with a buyout or trade, i'm not sure.  i would assume that since a buyout specifically involves the remainder of the money owed, it wouldn't factor in, as it has already been paid.  i would think, however, that it is part of the ongoing cap hit, as the cap hit is the total value of the contract divided by the number of years....so, if traded, some portion of that signing bonus sits as part of the cap hit, and could be absorbed by the flyers, if they so decided.  

 

this is all predicated on my not thinking signing bonuses are counted in the same way as performance-based bonuses.  i.e., i don't think year end bonus cushions can accept signing bonus overages.  i'm not positive, though.