Good players who never seem to catch a break

[fanaticV3.0]

This thread is dedicated to guys who are good players, but have never played, or very rarely, for a winning team.

 

I nominate Shane Doan. The guy has managed to spend his entire career in Arizona, which I am assuming is his choice, but it's done nothing for his career. Despite that, he's still managed to put up some respectable numbers. He's played well over 1000 games (1333 to be exact), has 360 goals, and 874 points (averages out to about 66 a year), and has over 100 PIMs. It depends on how many more years he plays, and at what level, but he's 31 goals away from breaking into the all-time top 100 goal scorers. I don't think he is a great player, but I think he's a good one, who could have had even better numbers and possibly some championships if he simply played for a better organization. He's the kind of supporting players (2nd liner) winning teams like to have, but I'm assuming he has vetoed trades in the past.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

While I agree that Shane Doan probably would have had a ring by now had he been somewhere other than the Coyotes, I would NOT go so far as to say "it has done nothing for his career".

 

Not only has he shown much character in the face of much adversity playing for a mostly losing team in the desert, but he has carved out a reputation throughout the entire NHL as a warrior, a grinder, a skill guy, a team guy, a franchise face, and even if he doesn't get that ring before he retires, I have a sneaking feeling he will somehow find his way into the NHL Hall of Fame.

 

Many reasons why a player may choose to stay where he is and we all may never know the full extent as to why Doan has stayed there, but much respect has to be given to a guy who simply stuck it out there and  has carved himself more than just a career....he has made himself into an icon that represents that grit, determination, and toughess CAN go hand in hand for a long stretch of career if one has the fortitude...and he certainly does.

 

Now, for my nominee...

Sean Bergenheim.

 

Here is a guy who has played very well in Europe before coming over to the NHL, put up good numbers while playing in the AHL, and when finally given the chance to show his wares in the NHL, it always seems to have been for a team that, at the time, was either rebuilding, transitioning, or flat out bad:

The Islanders in the mid to late 2000's....one season with the Lightning when they were still transitioning from the terrible teams of the late 2000's into the early 2010's....and now for the Florida Panthers, who are, yup, you guessed it, a still developing contender.

 

None of Bergenheim's numbers at the NHL level are particularly eye popping, but they are respectable, and while he has had injury issues this season, he has been very consistent health wise, and numbers wise, and could almost always be counted on for around 15-20 goals, give or take, at the NHL level, and he is a very underrated puck distributor, thus he tends to have pretty decent assist numbers to along with whatever goal totals he puts up.

 

And he mostly does these things from bottom six positions, meaning he doesn't always have the most skilled linemates.

Yet he can also play on the PP if need be, kill penalties, can be counted on to crash the net and bother the goaltender, can play either wing just as well, is pretty tenacious along the boards and is an expert agitator to boot, oftentimes getting skilled players off their games with his persistent checking, constant yapping, and interjecting himself on behalf of teammates.

 

Sean Bergenheim is the kind of guy, that, if a team has everything else they need to contend, would be perfect to have on either your 2nd or 3rd line, maybe matched up against the other team's top line as a shut down guy, or just to be a general nuisance to the other team (non dirty nuisance) while his skilled linemates do their thing....then when the other team finally ignores him, he resorts to his own skill set in grabbing a goal or two, or setting up a linemate for one.

[fanaticV3.0]

While I agree that Shane Doan probably would have had a ring by now had he been somewhere other than the Coyotes, I would NOT go so far as to say "it has done nothing for his career".

 

Not only has he shown much character in the face of much adversity playing for a mostly losing team in the desert, but he has carved out a reputation throughout the entire NHL as a warrior, a grinder, a skill guy, a team guy, a franchise face, and even if he doesn't get that ring before he retires, I have a sneaking feeling he will somehow find his way into the NHL Hall of Fame.

 

Many reasons why a player may choose to stay where he is and we all may never know the full extent as to why Doan has stayed there, but much respect has to be given to a guy who simply stuck it out there and  has carved himself more than just a career....he has made himself into an icon that represents that grit, determination, and toughess CAN go hand in hand for a long stretch of career if one has the fortitude...and he certainly does.

 

Now, for my nominee...

Sean Bergenheim.

 

Here is a guy who has played very well in Europe before coming over to the NHL, put up good numbers while playing in the AHL, and when finally given the chance to show his wares in the NHL, it always seems to have been for a team that, at the time, was either rebuilding, transitioning, or flat out bad:

The Islanders in the mid to late 2000's....one season with the Lightning when they were still transitioning from the terrible teams of the late 2000's into the early 2010's....and now for the Florida Panthers, who are, yup, you guessed it, a still developing contender.

 

None of Bergenheim's numbers at the NHL level are particularly eye popping, but they are respectable, and while he has had injury issues this season, he has been very consistent health wise, and numbers wise, and could almost always be counted on for around 15-20 goals, give or take, at the NHL level, and he is a very underrated puck distributor, thus he tends to have pretty decent assist numbers to along with whatever goal totals he puts up.

 

And he mostly does these things from bottom six positions, meaning he doesn't always have the most skilled linemates.

Yet he can also play on the PP if need be, kill penalties, can be counted on to crash the net and bother the goaltender, can play either wing just as well, is pretty tenacious along the boards and is an expert agitator to boot, oftentimes getting skilled players off their games with his persistent checking, constant yapping, and interjecting himself on behalf of teammates.

 

Sean Bergenheim is the kind of guy, that, if a team has everything else they need to contend, would be perfect to have on either your 2nd or 3rd line, maybe matched up against the other team's top line as a shut down guy, or just to be a general nuisance to the other team (non dirty nuisance) while his skilled linemates do their thing....then when the other team finally ignores him, he resorts to his own skill set in grabbing a goal or two, or setting up a linemate for one.

 

Doan has done this himself though. He has created that reputation. When I say "it has done nothing for his career" I'm talking about his loyalty to that organization. The guy should be on better teams and him choosing to stay in the desert has cost him the chance to play for winning organizations.

 

I have to be honest, I don't even know who he is, but his numbers (considering health and teams) are not bad for a role player at all. I find myself wondering about this kind of stuff all the time. I'm not a nature vs. nurture guy at all. I think both can play a factor. Sometimes it's one, sometimes it's the other. Sometimes the difference between a Sean Bergenheim and Kris Draper is the team they play for.

[yave1964]

I would go with a couple of retired players, Brian Propp who never won a cup in spite of playing in 5 finals. He never won a cup in spite of being the all time leading post season scoring left Wing. He lost once to the Isles dynasty, 3 times to Gretzky and once to Mario. Never won a cup.

 

  The other would be Dave Lewis, who was part of the building of the Isles to respectability, and was dealt a month before the playoffs started in 1980 to the inept Los Angeles Kings for Butch Gorong who went on to legendary status as the all time greatest trade deadline pickup of all time helping to lead the Isles to the first of 4 consecutive cups. Lewis, well respected in the game captained the Kings and bounced around the NHL, becoming an assistant under Scotty Bowman as the Wings won 3 cups. Lewis took over when Bowman retired and the Wings did not win under him, he was canned before they won again under Babcock, hired in Boston and canned before they won under Claude Julien. This man has spent his entire career in the wrong place at the wrong time, both as  a player and again as a coach.

[fanaticV3.0]

I would go with a couple of retired players, Brian Propp who never won a cup in spite of playing in 5 finals. He never won a cup in spite of being the all time leading post season scoring left Wing. He lost once to the Isles dynasty, 3 times to Gretzky and once to Mario. Never won a cup.

 

  The other would be Dave Lewis, who was part of the building of the Isles to respectability, and was dealt a month before the playoffs started in 1980 to the inept Los Angeles Kings for Butch Gorong who went on to legendary status as the all time greatest trade deadline pickup of all time helping to lead the Isles to the first of 4 consecutive cups. Lewis, well respected in the game captained the Kings and bounced around the NHL, becoming an assistant under Scotty Bowman as the Wings won 3 cups. Lewis took over when Bowman retired and the Wings did not win under him, he was canned before they won again under Babcock, hired in Boston and canned before they won under Claude Julien. This man has spent his entire career in the wrong place at the wrong time, both as  a player and again as a coach.

 

Yeah, this is exactly the kind of guys I'm talking about. Some guys don't take advantage of their own talent or the talent around them. Some guys never have that opportunity and you have to wonder how their careers would have panned out if they did.

[JagerMeister]

While I agree that Shane Doan probably would have had a ring by now had he been somewhere other than the Coyotes, I would NOT go so far as to say "it has done nothing for his career".

Not only has he shown much character in the face of much adversity playing for a mostly losing team in the desert, but he has carved out a reputation throughout the entire NHL as a warrior, a grinder, a skill guy, a team guy, a franchise face, and even if he doesn't get that ring before he retires, I have a sneaking feeling he will somehow find his way into the NHL Hall of Fame.

Many reasons why a player may choose to stay where he is and we all may never know the full extent as to why Doan has stayed there, but much respect has to be given to a guy who simply stuck it out there and has carved himself more than just a career....he has made himself into an icon that represents that grit, determination, and toughess CAN go hand in hand for a long stretch of career if one has the fortitude...and he certainly does.

Now, for my nominee...

Sean Bergenheim.

Here is a guy who has played very well in Europe before coming over to the NHL, put up good numbers while playing in the AHL, and when finally given the chance to show his wares in the NHL, it always seems to have been for a team that, at the time, was either rebuilding, transitioning, or flat out bad:

The Islanders in the mid to late 2000's....one season with the Lightning when they were still transitioning from the terrible teams of the late 2000's into the early 2010's....and now for the Florida Panthers, who are, yup, you guessed it, a still developing contender.

None of Bergenheim's numbers at the NHL level are particularly eye popping, but they are respectable, and while he has had injury issues this season, he has been very consistent health wise, and numbers wise, and could almost always be counted on for around 15-20 goals, give or take, at the NHL level, and he is a very underrated puck distributor, thus he tends to have pretty decent assist numbers to along with whatever goal totals he puts up.

And he mostly does these things from bottom six positions, meaning he doesn't always have the most skilled linemates.

Yet he can also play on the PP if need be, kill penalties, can be counted on to crash the net and bother the goaltender, can play either wing just as well, is pretty tenacious along the boards and is an expert agitator to boot, oftentimes getting skilled players off their games with his persistent checking, constant yapping, and interjecting himself on behalf of teammates.

Sean Bergenheim is the kind of guy, that, if a team has everything else they need to contend, would be perfect to have on either your 2nd or 3rd line, maybe matched up against the other team's top line as a shut down guy, or just to be a general nuisance to the other team (non dirty nuisance) while his skilled linemates do their thing....then when the other team finally ignores him, he resorts to his own skill set in grabbing a goal or two, or setting up a linemate for one.

I like the guy but if they ever decide to put him in the HHOF. You might as well add ryan Smyth, Trevor Linden, Wendell Clark and saku koivu in as well