B21 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Just caught this article. Thought the Flyers faithful (especially @flyercanuck) would find this interesting as it certainly validates the concept of building through the draft and the insanity of long term deals for certain players. Hindsight is 20/20 but Weber would have cost the Flyers Morin, Sanheim, Provorov and Rubstov. Ouch. http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2016/7/19/12230694/what-if-the-predators-hadnt-matched-the-shea-weber-offer-sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 @b21 I think there would be less optimism for the future if Weber was here, no question. I reckon the question would be is he a franchise altering player ? would he put the Flyers in the conversation for being a championship team ? I don't think he alone does it, I know his cap hit along with Giroux's and Voracek's would make it difficult to fill in the blank areas ... He is a right handed shot, maybe the Devils don't shred us in '14 and the seas part... for me I am happy finally having some high end prospects on the horizon. I don't think the fan base would be loving him today had that offer sheet not been matched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 2 hours ago, B21 said: Just caught this article. Thought the Flyers faithful (especially @flyercanuck) would find this interesting as it certainly validates the concept of building through the draft and the insanity of long term deals for certain players. Hindsight is 20/20 but Weber would have cost the Flyers Morin, Sanheim, Provorov and Rubstov. Ouch. http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2016/7/19/12230694/what-if-the-predators-hadnt-matched-the-shea-weber-offer-sheet I honestly don't think there are many Flyer fans who were disappointed that didn't work out. Getting Weber? Great. That deal? Most of us were sick of homer's shenanigans at that point. Most of us just wanted him to resign Carle and Jagr and were pretty ticked at the whole praise/surer/Weber fiasco. I still feel that those few days that summer most clearly lead to all the cap issues and personnel woes that have hampered the team since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 41 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: @b21 I think there would be less optimism for the future if Weber was here, no question. I reckon the question would be is he a franchise altering player ? would he put the Flyers in the conversation for being a championship team ? I don't think he alone does it, I know his cap hit along with Giroux's and Voracek's would make it difficult to fill in the blank areas ... He is a right handed shot, maybe the Devils don't shred us in '14 and the seas part... for me I am happy finally having some high end prospects on the horizon. I don't think the fan base would be loving him today had that offer sheet not been matched. Homer was just trying to replace Pronger. That was his whole school of thought. He had something that worked and when he lost it he aimed to replace it. (I.e see Vinny<Jagr, Mac<Carle, etc). The truly ironic part is that he never attempted to replace Carter and Richards. Didn't seem to think his captain and leading scorer were key, which, regardless of how you felt about them personally, was kind of a dumb move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamflyers Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 The only way Flyers fans would be happy about that deal today would be if Weber had brought the Flyers a Stanley Cup by now. This team was clearly not only that one big named player away from a Cup. At the time, I was disappointed, because the short term benefits seemed huge and I was willing to forget the long term damage that the deal would have done. Now when you see the cupboard stocked with young talent that many experts see as core players, you realize how thankful we should be that Nashville matched! Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I feel that the good times are near. The way the Flyers are building this team is something I have never experienced since becoming a fan and it is exciting, especially since you are seeing the teams that follow this process winning more cups than those who just sign the big named free agents. I got to experience this process with the Phillies and it paid off with the ultimate prize. Unfortunately, they also went down the path going for the biggest names rather than continuing to groom their young talent. Our time is coming! In Hexy I trust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 21 minutes ago, Adamflyers said: I got to experience this process with the Phillies and it paid off with the ultimate prize. Unfortunately, they also went down the path going for the biggest names rather than continuing to groom their young talent. you know when it came to that Phillies core...what do you do there ? really I think i try to continue to roll with utley rollins chooch howard hamels et al. and add in the free agents. I can't fault the phillies FO for trying to maximize that group's chances. It is only in the last 2 years that they were not a playoff team. I thought they could have won several championships, and am glad they won at least 1. the year they lost to the Cards that team could have won it all as well. they wound up losing to the eventual champs which isn't much comfort, but had they beat that cardinals team they certainly could have ran the table after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamflyers Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: you know when it came to that Phillies core...what do you do there ? really I think i try to continue to roll with utley rollins chooch howard hamels et al. and add in the free agents. I can't fault the phillies FO for trying to maximize that group's chances. It is only in the last 2 years that they were not a playoff team. I thought they could have won several championships, and am glad they won at least 1. the year they lost to the Cards that team could have won it all as well. they wound up losing to the eventual champs which isn't much comfort, but had they beat that cardinals team they certainly could have ran the table after. I don't disagree with your assessment at all, but I just wanted to illustrate what happens when you do go down that path. Phillies are a great example of it. Built through the draft and then collapsed by big contracts and trades. It is a pretty typical cycle for teams that find success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 6 hours ago, mojo1917 said: @b21 I think there would be less optimism for the future if Weber was here, no question. I reckon the question would be is he a franchise altering player ? would he put the Flyers in the conversation for being a championship team ? I don't think he alone does it, I know his cap hit along with Giroux's and Voracek's would make it difficult to fill in the blank areas ... He is a right handed shot, maybe the Devils don't shred us in '14 and the seas part... for me I am happy finally having some high end prospects on the horizon. I don't think the fan base would be loving him today had that offer sheet not been matched. Couldn't agree more. I didn't think the Flyers were a Weber away from being a true SC contended at that point. You bring up an interesting point though. Do the Flyers even have the ability to sign Voracek to that deal if Weber is on the books? My guess would be no. That would be three 8MM+ per deals on the books. Not even the Pens have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 3 hours ago, Adamflyers said: I don't disagree with your assessment at all, but I just wanted to illustrate what happens when you do go down that path. Phillies are a great example of it. Built through the draft and then collapsed by big contracts and trades. It is a pretty typical cycle for teams that find success. This though sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make. The best example I can think of are the Cardinals and Albert Pujols. Pujols was the Cardinals. Active in the community Beloved. Still in his prime. But it made no sense at all for a mid-market team like St. Louis to pay him that much until he was 40. Think they (or their fans) regret it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 17 hours ago, B21 said: Couldn't agree more. I didn't think the Flyers were a Weber away from being a true SC contended at that point. You bring up an interesting point though. Do the Flyers even have the ability to sign Voracek to that deal if Weber is on the books? My guess would be no. That would be three 8MM+ per deals on the books. Not even the Pens have that. Pretty close though. A 9+, an 8+ and a 7.25 and an almost 7 in Kessel. The Hawks have two 10's an almost 7 and a 6 That said not being able to do the Voracek deal wouldn't have been a terrible thing. I kinda hate that deal. A lot. Like the player there aren't many players in this league worth that and Jake was one of them for all of one season. That's a bit tough to justify long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 17 hours ago, B21 said: This though sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make. The best example I can think of are the Cardinals and Albert Pujols. Pujols was the Cardinals. Active in the community Beloved. Still in his prime. But it made no sense at all for a mid-market team like St. Louis to pay him that much until he was 40. Think they (or their fans) regret it now? 22 hours ago, mojo1917 said: you know when it came to that Phillies core...what do you do there ? really I think i try to continue to roll with utley rollins chooch howard hamels et al. and add in the free agents. I can't fault the phillies FO for trying to maximize that group's chances. It is only in the last 2 years that they were not a playoff team. I thought they could have won several championships, and am glad they won at least 1. the year they lost to the Cards that team could have won it all as well. they wound up losing to the eventual champs which isn't much comfort, but had they beat that cardinals team they certainly could have ran the table after. That was the year Ryan Howard tore his achilles right? Ruined his career on the last play of his team's playoffs. That still upsets me. SImilarly to Emery in 2009/2010, it seems pretty obvious in hindsight that all the cortisone injections those guys were getting in order to keep playing in the regular season lead to the more catastrophic injury that kept them out or rendered them useless indefinitely. Do the Phillies or Flyers make the playoffs either of those years without Emery or Howard playing through injuries via Cortisone? I think the Phillies do. The Flyers it's hard do say. They still played incredibly well with Boosh and then Leighton, and then Boosh and then Leighton and then Boosh... with a little Little for good measure. But they made it to the playoffs in 2010 by the skin of Boosh's blocker, so they may have needed Razor kicking off that streak mid season I don't know if it would have happened otherwise. One thing I do know is that if Razor had been healthy for the playoffs or even just the finals, the Flyers would have won the cup that year. I'd be willing to wager quite a bit on that. Doesn't matter if they never got there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 17 hours ago, B21 said: Couldn't agree more. I didn't think the Flyers were a Weber away from being a true SC contended at that point. You bring up an interesting point though. Do the Flyers even have the ability to sign Voracek to that deal if Weber is on the books? My guess would be no. That would be three 8MM+ per deals on the books. Not even the Pens have that. The Flyers could have been a Weber away if they'd kept Richards and Carter the year before, still acquired Jagr and then kept him in 2012, kept Carle and stayed completely out of the Bryzgalov circus and just stuck with the likes of a progressing Bob with Boosh backing him up. That would have been a hell of a team to be honest. But unfortunately, by the time Homer sent the Weber offer sheet, he'd dumped his captain and leading scorer for a youth movement the year before and let his solid puck moving D man and ageless winger (and locker room shot in the arm) go without making an offer to either and screwed up his cap and any hope for chemistry by adding by bringing in Bryzaster. So no. At the time it was made, the Weber offer was ridiculously stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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