Provorov

[flyercanuck]

7 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

When we're talking picks and prospects and building a champion that is all fine in a vacuum. 

 

In the real world , picks and prospects don't always work out, okay hypothetically let's  deal Striet at the deadline when we're in the 8th position for the playoffs, but the presumptive #1 seed is a good match up for the Flyers. The deal ; Let's say is with St Louis who is in second place in their division and a middle seed overall who feels like they need some extra offense because of an injury to Kevin Shattenkirk and Jay Bow is playing through some knee issues and the Blues feel like they need someone steady on the 2nd PP...  They offer their 2nd and Yannick Villeux one of their top prospects.  The Flyers are now playing NIck Shultz and Andrew MacDonald nightly and drop from the playoff race. Villieux is near the end of his ELC , spurns the Flyers fair bridge deal offer because he wants to play in Montreal. The Flyers are now left with a second round pick, a low one, another year out of the tournament all together and they have a 50% chance of the player left from the trade making the team in 3 years....  The young guys in the org, think , heck we could beat those Caps/ Pens/Lighting  if Hexy doesn't deal Striet , and start to wonder about the Flyers" gold standard culture".  With these young kids anything can happen there isn't a linear trajectory that says get picks and you'll win.

So for me; if the Flyers are in position to get into the tournament they need to make that happen, even if only so IP and TK can see what the real NHL game is all about when they're young, so they can learn how to prepare themselves for when **** gets real.

 

Chip Kelly did have some wisdom when he talked about Culture trumping scheme.   If a player come to a place where it's expected to play in the tournament rather than a cool that that happens every other year, that player will feel a need to raise his game to meet the expectation. He was most likely talking about the stinkin' NE Patriots when he was talking about it, That organization wins.  There is a type of player they seek who fits the culture.  They get them from everywhere.

 

 

Or let's say we get a 2nd for Streit, make the playoffs, and lose in the 1st round which is the most likely scenario with the present team. And that 2nd ends up being another Shea Weber or PK Subban or Patrice Bergeron  or any other rock solid 2nd rounder? That's why you stockpile picks...so you have a better chance of grabbing those diamonds in the rough.

 

Are you really going to quote the guy who single handedly dismantled your football team?

Why not just quote Homer, trade Konecny and Provorov and a 2nd for Chara and get it over with?

 

I'll look at the Hawks way of doing things...stockpile picks, draft well, win cups, and use cheap well coached young talent who know your system to fill the holes left from salary cap losses.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

8 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

In the real world , picks and prospects don't always work out, okay hypothetically let's  deal Striet at the deadline when we're in the 8th position for the playoffs, but the presumptive #1 seed is a good match up for the Flyers. The deal ; Let's say is with St Louis who is in second place in their division and a middle seed overall who feels like they need some extra offense because of an injury to Kevin Shattenkirk and Jay Bow is playing through some knee issues and the Blues feel like they need someone steady on the 2nd PP...  They offer their 2nd and Yannick Villeux one of their top prospects.  The Flyers are now playing NIck Shultz and Andrew MacDonald nightly and drop from the playoff race. Villieux is near the end of his ELC , spurns the Flyers fair bridge deal offer because he wants to play in Montreal. The Flyers are now left with a second round pick, a low one, another year out of the tournament all together and they have a 50% chance of the player left from the trade making the team in 3 years....  The young guys in the org, think , heck we could beat those Caps/ Pens/Lighting  if Hexy doesn't deal Striet , and start to wonder about the Flyers" gold standard culture".  With these young kids anything can happen there isn't a linear trajectory that says get picks and you'll win.

So for me; if the Flyers are in position to get into the tournament they need to make that happen, even if only so IP and TK can see what the real NHL game is all about when they're young, so they can learn how to prepare themselves for when **** gets real.

 

 

Here's the issue though with regards to Streit - at this point in his career, he's a power play/offensive specialist. His defensive acumen is next to none. If the Flyers are dealing Streit, it's because: A) they're out of the playoffs and they're going to stock pile picks and talent to the pipeline; B) they have a young player or players in the AHL that are ready for full time NHL duty and that means moving Streit to open a spot for them; C) Streit is probably going to retire and has told the club he wants to go to a contender that has a chance to compete for the Stanley Cup; or D) Hextall and Hakstol decide that the blue line needs a 'culture change' and that the youngsters are ready to take control of the blue line. To me, it's a balancing act. Are they better with or without Streit? At this point, I'd say they're better without simply because Streit is a redundancy that they have with Del Zotto, Provorov and Gostisbehere. 

 

I don't think dealing Streit means that the Flyers give up. On the contrary, dealing Streit means Hextall and Hakstol have confidence that their young defensemen are ready to carry the team and dealing Streit to a contender gives him the proper send off he deserves. The fact that the Flyers continue to stock pile and add to the prospect talent pool is a bonus. 

[RJ8812]

If people actually think that trading Streit means that the team is "giving up" then you don't understand the concept of rebuilding and making moves that best improve this team's future 

[mojo1917]

16 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Are you really going to quote the guy who single handedly dismantled your football team?

Why not just quote Homer, trade Konecny and Provorov and a 2nd for Chara and get it over with?

Yes I did. Just because he couldn't execute the philosophy doesn't make it wrong or a bad idea.  

The second rounder can more likely become Dalton Thrower , Colton Sissons or Teodors Blugers than Shea Weber 

Losing sucks fc. Losing sucks. The hope for a second round pick turning  into "something " doesn't outweigh the fact that my team can't make a tournament in which half of the teams in league gain entry.

 

[mojo1917]

15 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

If people actually think that trading Streit means that the team is "giving up" then you don't understand the concept of rebuilding and making moves that best improve this team's future 

Dude it's not binary. 

I understand it. I disagree with it.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, RJ8812 said:

If people actually think that trading Streit means that the team is "giving up" then you don't understand the concept of rebuilding and making moves that best improve this team's future 

 

It's possible to rebuild and not give up at the same time.  Right?

He's gone at the end of the season either way and I'm not convinced they're worse off without him.  

 

At the same time, he could be a valuable addition to another team.  

[mojo1917]

Yeah what @King Knut said, i'm saying let's keep a shot player for good reason, if he doesn't fit and something of value can be had for him.  great.  I don't think however, we should deal him in the midst of a playoff run.

[King Knut]

9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Yeah what @King Knut said, i'm saying let's keep a shot player for good reason, if he doesn't fit and something of value can be had for him.  great.  I don't think however, we should deal him in the midst of a playoff run.

 

I genuinely think that will depend on the deal and the run.  We can't possibly say right now.  But just because they may be in the hunt, if someone offers you Gudas and a first like they did for Coburn, you damn well take it.